Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 4.314
February 5, 1995

1) Introduction (Jay Kraut)
2) Introduction; frage,shayle,kashe (Aaron Hershkowitz)
3) Proverbs (Marcia Gruss Levinsohn)
4) Insults (Chane Honig)
5) Katchke dreyzikh (Kayle Goodman)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 19:22:10 -0600 (CST)
From: jay_kraut@mbnet.mb.ca
Subject: Introduction

Shalom mine nomen iz Zevi ich bin 12 yor alt on ich leb in Winnipeg. In
Winnipeg me chot kimat kyn menchen mine elter vos redn Yiddish. Oib do
canst redn Yiddish canst do mir postn storik.

Jay Kraut

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 01:12:15 -0500 (EST)
From: ahershko@aecom.yu.edu
Subject: A question about a frage, a shayle, and a kashe

First, a belated introduction.  I have been listening with wonderment and
enjoyment to the discussions of the Mendele khvere.  I did send a message
but I did not identify myself.  A am a retired professor.  I have always
been interested in Yiddish affairs -- but sadly not very active.  I was
born on the lower East Side in NY to A Russian-Polish family.  My primary
language as a child was Yiddish.  I speak and understand it passably
well. Some Yiddishist would probably term it "proste yiddish".  As for
reading and writing the language, I find what was easy at one time
extremely difficult.  No doubt, that is because it has always been an
oral language for me.  Mendele has rekindled a desire to read and write
the language that I hold very dear.

Second, to the specific question I would like to pose.  Many of the
Mendele subscribers ask questions.  Some ask a _frage_; some ask a
_shayle_; some ask a _kashe_.  I note that these terms are used
interchangeably. This is as it should be.  I'm certain there can be no
misunderstanding in this. But, it does arouse my curiosity.  I don't mean
to quibble or to be pedantic about it, but it does seem that these terms
have different origins and derivations.  It would be enlightening to
determine how they merged.  I'm sure this was not always the case.
Herewith, I submit my simplistic notion of the differences or nuances of
these terms.  I stand ready to be corrected and educated.

A frage is a question about a matter of fact; of seeking information. A
shayle is an inquiry regarding the interpretation of facts. A kashe is a
query about how different fact a/o intepretations can be reconciled.

In short:  A frage demands a direct answer, a shayle requires a decison
           or interpretation, a kashe (I know you can't eat it) calls for
           a discussion.

And, while we're at it, let me burden you who are interested with some
other questions about questions.  Is there a Yiddish term for a
rhetorical question? How about a nonsense question?  I would like to hear
what others have to say.  Or, do we have to wait, as the Talmud says, for
the coming of the Messiah.

Aaron Hershkowitz
Bronx, NY

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 20:33:32 -0500 (EST)
From: mashinke@wam.umd.edu
Subject: Yiddish proverbs

Daniella HarPaz requested a work on Yiddish proverbs.  "Words Like
Arrows, a Treasury of Yiddish Folk Sayings," compiled by Shirley Kumove,
illustrated by Frank Newfeld is an excellent work with Yiddish, English
and transliteration for each of the, listed by subject, sayings which is
now out of print.  Ms. Kumove was at the October '94 2nd International
Yiddish Clubs Conference, Toronto and told us that it might help if we
wrote to her publisher to request a reprinting.  It is a small paperback.
Warner Books, A Warner Communications Company.  Sorry, I don't know the
address.  The ISBN #s 0-446-38193-4 USA; 0-8357-6383-6, (2035738 (?)).

The latter number is from "Books on Demand" an affiliate of the Div. of
University Microfilms International, Ann Arbor, MI, phone - 800-521-0600
who will make a copy for $74.90.

Marcia Gruss Levinsohn

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 18:39:56 -0500 (EST)
From: ahonig@mailbox.syr.edu
Subject: Insults in YIddish

I am wondering whether the pickholz referred to as a YIddish insult could
be related to an insult my mama could hurl if she thought we ere being
dense...." shtickholz"... a stick of woood..
My Zydes' worst curse was" az a gute yid zol dir nisht kennen".  A good
Jew should cut you dead socially.... i presume.
Of course, what we heard more often if Mama were irritated at us was" gay
in drerd arayn".(  drop dead)..said with sarcastic aspersion...and not
meant one whit!.

Chane Honig
Syracuse, NY

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 07:13:24 -0800
From: ac939@lafn.org
Subject: Katchke dreyzikh

Eliyahu Juni asks about katchke dreydokh or dreyzikh.  Ikh ken dos nisht
entfern, dos heyst zayn frage, ober ikh gedenk az kind s'fleg amol kumen
oyf unzer gas a taradayke mit ferdelekh vos flegn zikh arumdreyen (a
karuselkele).  Der balabos fun dem karusel fleg zikh rufn "katchke
dreydl."  Di kinderlekh flegn shrayen un loyfn vi on a neshome ven zey
flegn im derzen-- ot kumt katchke dreydl.  Dos iz geven in brooklyn.  Ikh
vil oykh visn, fun vanen kumt katchke dreyzikh.  A gutn tog aykh
alemen--do in California iz varem un di himln zenen loyter. Ikh vintch
aykh ale azoyne vetern.

Kayle Goodman

______________________________________________________
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