Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 5.158
October 31, 1995

1) Eleanor Antin (Bernard S. Greenberg)
2) Neshome keyn rozhinke (Daniel Soyer)
3) Yak reydele to reydele (Daniel Soyer)
4) Mensch/mentsh in the Forward (Shleyme Axelrod)
5) Standard English vs. heymish? (Louis Fridhandler)
6) Hobn/zayn (Anno Siegel)
7) Yiddish for all (Shloyme-Khayim Cohen)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 16:31:36 -0500
From: bsg@basistech.com
Subject: Eleanor Antin

A few years ago I saw a black and white Yiddish "reconstruction" of
Anskii's "Dybbuk" that I recall as being by Eleanor Antin (certainly
-someone- Antin), although I remember the picture of the director looking
much younger than someone born in 1935.  I do not think this the same
film ("The Man Without a World") just described. Am I confused?

This film was extremely well done, ingenious, and funny. I was really
tickled by it. It was presented as though it had been "rediscovered". It
was perfectly done.

Bernard S. Greenberg

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 30 Oct 95 16:50:40 EST
From: 74212.2700@compuserve.com
Subject: Neshome keyn rozhinke

What does "vemens neshome s'iz oykh nit keyn rozhinke" mean? The full
sentence is part of a very critical article about landsmanshaftn in
Buenos Aires in 1916. It reads, "Di [ershte] tsvey [fareynen] hobn gegebn
motivn far a beburt fun andere "paysanes" vemens neshome s'iz oykh nit
keyn rozhinke (andere megn un zey nit?) un men hot nokhgetun dos vos es
hobn getun di ershte..."  Thanks,

Daniel Soyer

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: 30 Oct 95 16:57:17 EST
From: 74212.2700@compuserve.com
Subject: Yak reydele to reydele

In Sholem Aleichem's _Motl Peysi dem khazns: in Amerike_ (on p. 179 of
the 1937 Morgn Frayhayt edition) there is a passage describing how Motl's
mother has adopted many English words, and how she tends to mix them up
(ikh gey in tshikn oyszaltsn di kitshn). Everyone laughs at her, but she
laughs along with them. "A dayge - zogt zi - yak reydele to reydele, abi
dobre meynele." Too which Motl adds, "Anu, zayt a berye un zetst dos iber
af english!"  Any takers?

Daniel Soyer

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 18:18:59 -0500 (EST)
From: ptyaxel@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Subject: Mensch/mentsh in the Forward

Concern has often been expressed in Mendele (most recently by Mikhl
Herzog, 5.134) about the mangling of Yiddish and its romanization in the
English-language "Forward".  With particular reference to the paper's
frequent use of the German _Mensch_ instead of the Yiddish _mentsh_ (see,
e.g., Zellig Bach's post in 4.417), some progress seems to have been
made.  In an article by Aviva Patz (10/27/95), discussing a book titled
"How to Meet a Mensch in New York", Ms Patz appropriately cites the title
that way, but in her own voice spells the word _mentsh_, italics and all,
four times (and _Mentsh_ twice, in contexts where the word would be
capitalized if it were English.) _Az me lebt, derlebt men._

The likelihood is slim that the editors of the "Forward" have been won
over to YIVO-standard romanization; one swallow doesn't make a summer.
Still, even such a small indication of _derekh-erets far yidish_ is
welcome.

Shleyme Axelrod
Buffalo, New York

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 21:50:56 -0500
From: lfridhan@aol.com
Subject: Standard English vs. heymish?

Eliyahu Juni's thoughtful post (5.157) touches subject matter into which
I hesitate to poke, but it seems to me that overhearing a friend from
England speak on the phone provides a relevant anecdote.

Her English accent is elegant, pleasant and musical.  It has helped her
secure places in business (for sure). and easy social acceptance (quite
possibly).  Talking business or with local friends she sounds in the very
familiar way.  A couple of times I overheard her speak to her sister
across the continent.  After 30 seconds or so, the clipped elegance
disappeared and a rich Lancashire lilt took over with expressions pithy
and expressive. There were a number I did not understand.  Later, I told
her I enjoyed the English she used talking to her sister.  She accepted
the compliment, but opined that she found her own Lancashire speech
rather _common_.  In England, common means lowbrow, uncouth.  The English
she used most of the time was learned in school.  She did not learn it at
home.  Apparently, most (maybe all) English schools in England, teach a
kind of _standard_ school English that is probably a compromise among the
various lingoes.  There are many in England.  In London you can walk a
couple of blocks and find two neighborhoods with different styles of
speech.  However, the so-called standard is understood all over England
(and America).

Let's forget about the snob factor.  That is obviously artificial and of
no value.  The universal comprehension is also artificial but extremely
valuable.  Shouldn't that be the major consideration in discussions about
what is the right kind of Yiddish?  May we consider the Yivo standard as
analogous to the English _school standard_ and let it go at that?

Louis Fridhandler

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 95 09:58:33 +0100
From: anno4000@w172zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Subject: Hobn/zayn

In 5.156 Carl Goldberg says: "I understand that there are some German
dialects which do not strictly observe this difference which is strictly
observed in standard High German."

This is a southern/northern distinction.  Northern (niederdeutsche)
dialects tend to conform to the rules of High German in this respect,
while sourthern (oberdeutsche) dialects use "sein" with a few verbs which
normally require "haben".  Prominent exaples are "sitzen", "stehen",
"liegen", and even "schlafen".  This variation is not considered
incorrect and it tends to prevail in (non-dialectal) written German with
authors who come from an Upper German background. Duden quotes Kafka with
an example.

I think I have seen examples in Yiddish that follow the Upper German
usage, but I'm not sure if this is a rule or if it varies with Yiddish
dialects.

Anno Siegel
Berlin (Germany)

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 09:40:03 -0500
From: scohen@rutchem.rutgers.edu
Subject: Yiddish for all

Concerning Allen Edel's flyer promoting Yiddish studies, might I suggest
modern marketing techniques, e.g, some "pizzazz". Yiddish for most people
evokes an emotional response, such as Bobe's chicken soup, or seeing
Zeyde reading the Forverts. Instead of paragraphs of (true) verbiage, how
about the "bullet" technique.

* Learn how to make "Yoykh" in Yiddish!
* Subscribe to the "Forverts" and read it!
Etc.

Make it interesting and worthwhile, so that takers of the class satisfy
an emotional need. Play on the heartstrings, if necessary. Whatever
works, works. A full color brochure with cute graphics couldn't hurt
either.

Shloyme-Khayim (Steve) Cohen

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End of Mendele Vol. 5.158