Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.186 December 8, 1995 1) Hebrew in Yiddish (Scott Mendel) 2) Hebrew in Yiddish (Mikhl Herzog) 3) A shmues-krayz (Benyomin Moss) 4) Judeo-Alsation (Dan Leeson) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 10:16:17 CST From: sm21@midway.uchicago.edu Subject: Another loshen-koydesh dictionary I may have missed someone else mentioning it, but just in case: for those interested in a source on Hebraisms especially rooted in Torah and Rabbinical literature, there is the rare: _Yidish Verterbukh_ fun Yehoash un Dr. Khaym Spivak (Farlag "Veker," New York: 1926). I managed to get a copy at the National Yiddish Book Center this summer, but they would only sell me one of the copies that was coming apart...They're sending the intact copies to libraries. But if I recall correctly it was very inexpensive for such a rare volume. Still, for copies not literally coming apart at the seams, one might try the local university library... Scott Mendel 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 12:21 EST From: zogur@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu Subject: Loshn-koydesh: dictionaries and questions Briefly on various matters that have arisen with respect to the loshn-koydesh (L-K) component of Yiddish, including Bob Rothstein's most recent query. (Note: The term "loshn-Koydesh" is useful because it subsumes elements of both Hebrew and Aramaic origin.) 1. Dictionaries The most comprehensive are: Yehoyosh, aand Kh. Spivak: _Yidish verterbukh, anthalt ale hebreishe (un khaldeishe) verter . . ._, New York 1911. Pereferkovich, N.: _Hebreizmen in yidish_, Riga, 1929. Shteynberg, Y.: _Hebreizmen in der yidisher shprakh_, Wroclaw, 1949. I'm sure that all of these are hard to come by. It is worth photocopying any one or all of them in full. 2. The theoretical questions: a) Can we determine the boundaries between L-K, per se, and Yiddish which, by definition, encompasses a L_K component? In other words, can we distinguish i) Yiddish from ii) Yiddish with citations from L-K, and iii) Yiddish "mixed" with L-K? b) Is a Yiddish speaker's ability to comprehend L-K or to cite from L-K sources a function of his/her scholarship/learnedness? c) Is the extent of/the nature of the L-K component in the Yiddish of a given speaker a function of his/her scholarship/learnedness? d) Is the extent of/the nature of the L-K component in the Yiddish of a given speaker a function of geography? My answers, without elaboration are a) Yes, b) Yes, c) No, d) Yes. There are separate issues involved in assessing the use of L-K in the Western Yiddish area, where the language underwent serious dissolution under pressure from standard German and simultaneous "jargonization"; i.e., L-K elements (that were probably never part of "normal" speech) were deliberately exploited for particular, largely cryptic/trade purposes, in a German language environment. There are two articles that are central to some of these issues, both by Uriel Weinreich and both _in Hebrew_: "The mixed Yiddish-Hebrew scribal style of the 16th-18th century". _Leshonenu_ XXII (1957/58), 54-66. "Ashkenazic Hebrew and the Hebrew Component in Yiddish: Their geographic aspect". _Leshoneynu_ XXIV (1959/60), 242-252; XXV (1960/61), 57-80, 180-196. Mikhl Herzog 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 11:23:15 EST From: kmoss@eden.rutgers.edu Subject: A shmues-krayz Ikh (Benyomin 'Ken' Moss) un Shloyme-Khayim 'Steve' Cohen hobn geredt vegn der meglekhkeyt tsu heyben on a shmues-krayz bay uns do in Rutgers. Oiv zenen do Mendeleyner vos voynen in Tsentral New Jersey un hobn an interes in a shmues krayz (un/oder leyen-krayz), oder vos hobn khaverim vos voynen do un hobn aza interes, shik mir a briv do, oder in mayn e-post adress, kmoss@eden.rutgers.edu, oder git mir a ruf afn telefon, 214-1318 oder 549-5843. Me'darf nitzen mayn Englishe nomen, vayl bay mayn mitvoyners heys ikh Ken. Vos ken men ton... Shloyme-Khayim 'Steve' Cohen and I (Benyomin 'Ken' Moss) have been speaking about the possibility of starting a Yiddish conversation group here at Rutgers. If there are Mendeleyners out there who live in Central Jersey and have an interest in a shmues-krayz (and/or a reading group), or who have friends with such an interest, send me a letter here, or at kmoss@eden.rutgers.edu or call me at 214-1318 or 549-5843 (908 area code). I'm afraid you'll have to use my English name with my roomates. Benyomin Moss 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 09:18:22 EST From: leeson@aspen.fhda.edu Subject: Judeo Alsatian As long as the discussion of the relationship between Judeo German and Yiddish is under discussion, let me add to the matter with a related topic, Judeo Alsatian. From what I have been able to learn about this language, it is a variant on Romansch and has little to do with either German or Yiddish. It is a specialized language all of its own. I first became knowledgeable of the existence of the language (dialect??) when I attempted translation of some Jewish marriage contracts from the late 1700s and I was stopped dead in my tracks. To begin with the handwriting was indecipherable, and some number of Hebrew words were not only unknown to me but did not even sound as if they were Hebrew. That is to say, I would find some traditional boiler plate about this one marrying that one, and then all of a sudden I would read a word whose pronunciation made me suspect that it could just as well have been Iclandic or Serbo-croatian. Finally, I was able to find a specialist in translating marriage contracts and bethrothal agreements from that period and he provided me with a splendid translation. However, from what I have discerned thus far, there is not the slightest relationship between Yiddish and Judeo Alsatian, though the Alsatian Jews may have also spoken Yiddish in addition to the several languages of the region. My wife and I spent some time in Alsace last summer and I watched an Alsatian language TV program every day for a week to see if I could capture so much as a word or two. Though my French and German are passable, I could not understand a single word said over the time. No wonder I had such problems with Judeo Alsatian! It is as if some Bantu language were written in Hebrew characters!! Dan Leeson Los Altos, California ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.186 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. To resume delivery: set mendele mail c. To subscribe: sub mendele first_name last_name d. To unsubscribe kholile: unsub mendele Other business: nmiller@mail.trincoll.edu ****Getting back issues**** 1. Anonymous ftp archives are available. ftp ftp.mendele.trincoll.edu in the directory pub/mendele/files A table of contents is also available, along with weekly updates. 2. Mendele archives can also be reached as follows: via WWW: http://sunsite.unc.edu/yiddish/mewais.html via gopher: gopher://sunsite.unc.edu/11/../.pub/academic/languages/yiddish/mendele via ftp: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/languages/yiddish/mendele