Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.192 December 12, 1995 1) Nivel pe (David Herskovic) 2) Judeo-languages: The case of Alsace (Rick Turkel) 3) Auld Lang Syne af Idish? (Eric A. Gordon) 4) Bekishe (Jossi Rabinovich) 5) Shmuel Rozhanski (Moyshe-Zekharye Beker) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Dec 95 19:17:35 EST From: 100114.750@compuserve.com Subject: Nivel pe The term 'nivel pe' (Vol. 5.187) includes obscenities, pornography, sexual innuendo and even love stories. Various biblical stories would probably be classified as nivel pe by that rosh yeshive had they not appeared in the Bible in the first place and the characters were other than who they were. With a name like 'di tsniesdike gartel' (The Chastity Belt) it is obvious why the rosh yeshive termed it nivel pe rather than plain bitel toyre. The literal meaning of 'nivel pe' is fowling of the mouth. It is only used to imply as we would say in English 'talking dirty'. In Talmudic and Rabbinic literature it is classed together with loshen hore and rekhilus (defamation and slander). There is a gemore in mesekhtes shabes regarding NP that almost sounds as if it is straight out of a peyrets or zinger short story. 'It is universally known why a kale enters the khipe but he who fowls his mouth will descend into the depths of the Gehenne.' David Herskovic 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 00:18:44 EST From: rturkel@cas.org Subject: Judeo-languages: The case of Alsace To Mikhl Herzog: I enjoyed very much your essay on the above in Mendele Vol 5.188. However, I am compelled to take issue with the third example below: >What's in a language name? How different are Serbian and Croatian? Dutch, >Flemish, and Low German? Belorussian and Ukrainian? I've been a student of Slavic linguistics for over twenty years, and have _never_ encountered anyone in the field who considers Belorussian and Ukrainian dialects of the same language. There are many differences between them in phonology, morphology and syntax, and they are far from being mutually intelligible (except perhaps for local dialects within a narrow band along the border area between them). You continued: > Yet we say that the differences between Serbian and >Croatian are between "languages", but those between High and Low German >are "only" differences between "dialects". There is no question that the Serbian/Croatian situation is full of politics. I am fluent in Serbocroatian, which most non-native linguists consider to be a single language. My teachers were Serbs, and most of my speaking experience has been with a Croat. When I first met the latter, it took me all of two weeks to get over the dialectal differences between her speech and that I had heard earlier. And that was after only one year of course work - how much easier would it be for a native speaker? The differences between the two standard variants are no greater than those between British and American English, in my opinion. Like the situation of Hindi and Urdu in South Asia, much of the difference is cultural/religious. (That isn't to say that a peasant from northwestern Croatia would have an easy time trying to communicate with one from southeastern Serbia, or that a Serb from the vicinity of Nis^ could readily understand a Croat from outside Pula; that is to be expected.) Objectively, the only criterion by which standard literary Serbian and Croatian can be judged to be different languages is that which defines a language as a dialect with an army. To the great sorrow of much of the civilized world, that seems to be the way it's being played out currently in Bosnia-Hercegovina. The question of High and Low German is also a political one, but in the reverse. I doubt that many would consider them dialects of the same language if they weren't spoken within a single country. Even so, I believe most linguists consider Frisian a separate language, and the closest one to English. Dutch, Flemish and Low German, as far as I know, are generally treated as dialects of the same language, since they are mutually intelligible for the most part from Hamburg to Brussels. It's interesting that you used these examples. Many years ago I read somewhere that the differences across the Slavic speech community (from Russian to Slovenian, from Polish to Bulgarian) are no greater than those found within the borders of (then East and West) Germany. Zayt gezunt un shtark. Rick Turkel 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:52:23 -0500 From: ericarthur@aol.com Subject: Auld Lang Syne Does anyone know of a good, i.e., singable translation into Yiddish of "Auld Lang Syne"? It would be fun to have it this New Year's Eve. If one doesn't exist already, maybe some of you would like to post your different versions and we can come up with a standard one. How 'bout it, folks? Which reminds me of a wonderful thing that just happened to me that knocked my socks off. As the new Director of the Southern California District of the Arbeter Ring (Workmen's Circle), I sat in on our chorus rehearsal my first day at work a month ago. They were beginning to rehearse the Chanukah songs for our party Sunday, December 17th at 1 pm (1525 S. Robertson Blvd., Los Angeles--everyone invited, AR members free, guests $3). They launch into "Zeh der ziegreicher," which turns out to be "Hail the conquering hero comes" from George Frideric Handel's oratorio "Judas Maccabeus." Handel in Yiddish! Nu? Incidentally, the chorus is free and open to anyone who wishes to sing with us. We rehearse at the Arbeter Ring Center Mondays at 1:30 pm. It's a genial time. Come sing! It's the only Yiddish chorus in L.A. Eric A. Gordon 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Dec 95 09:23:09 EST From: 76600.2370@compuserve.com Subject: Bekishe I have heard that Bekishe is the transposed acronym of Bigdei Shabbos Kodesh. Jossi Rabinovich 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 06:54:13 PST From: bm.yib@rlg.stanford.edu Subject: Shmuel Rozhanski Vi a hemshekh tsu di bamerkungen vegn Shmuel Rozhanski z"l, vil ikh dermonen dray artiklen vos zaynen aroys nokh zayn ptire: As a follow-up to previous comments about Shmuel Rozhanski z"l, I would like to call your attention to three articles that came out after his passing: Klepfish, Heshil. "S'zaynen geven zibn Shmuel Rozhanskis," in "Yidishe kultur" num. 5-6 (May-Yuni 1995), zz' 18-29; Stillman, Gerald. "The phenomenal Shmuel Rozhansky, April 14, 1902- Feb. 19, 1995," in "Jewish Currents" vol. 49, no. 11 (Dec. 1995), pp. 27-28; Balaban-Wolkowitz, Shoshana. "Shmuel Rozhansky - as I knew him," in "Jewish Currents" vol. 49, no. 11 (Dec. 1995), pp. 28-29, 95. Moyshe-Zekharye Beker / Zachary Baker ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.192