Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 5.207
January 4, 1996

1) Introduction (Yasminke Dowling)
2) Knas-mol (Yasminke Dowling)
3) Knas-mol (Moyshe Taube)
4) Is Yiddish dying? (Morrie Feller)
5) Is Yiddish dying? (Khayem Bochner)
6) Is Yiddish dying? (Bernard Katz)
7) Is Yiddish dying? (Zachary Baker)
8) Where are the k'nishes? (Zellig Baker)
9) Pluperfect (Ellen Prince)
10) Graf Pototsky (Norman Rosenblatt)
11) Learning Yiddish (Cyril Robinson

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 13:34:02 -0500 (EST)
From: sidkyh@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Subject: Introduction

This is actually an update, as an answer to the request that new(ish)
subscribers introduce themselves, as I used to be on Mendele a while back,
when I was studying in England. Unfortunately, I had to unsubscribe when
family matters required that I return to the US, and have only recently
been able to get back on-line.

In my spare time, I am a PhD candidate (professionally and perpetually I
am beginning to think) studying the characterization of women in 17th and
18th century Yiddish chapbooks. I am looking at the *juicy* kind -- where
the female main character has to figure out which of her grooms is the
right one, tricks her husband into doing something foolish, gets kidnapped
by pirates and left on an island with only an ape for company, arranges
numerous murders, etc.  My writing is usually done on holidays, in the wee
hours of the night, or anytime I can sneak away from my children.

Yasminke (Jennifer) Dowling

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 13:21:52 -0500 (EST)
From: sidkyh@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Subject: Knas-mol

With regard to Refoyl Finkl`s question concerning *knas mol* (v.5.205),
the engagement ceremony/banquet The *knas-mol* historically was the
banquet -- provided by the groom -- given when the arrangements for the
marriage were finalized, and became legally binding. The *knas* refers to
the penalties which were to be paid if one of the parties broke off the
engagement. In the texts I am studying (17th/18th century fiction
chapbooks), the *knas mol* is not often mentioned by that term; it is
simply referred to as the *sude*, or the *simkhe*.  *tanoin shraybn* gets
used much more frequently. However, the term *farknasn*, i.e. to betroth
occurs; however, in the texts I am using (BTW they all have a female
protagonists), this hints at a situation where she didn`t get much of a
chance to dis/agree.

Hope it helps,

Yasminke (Jennifer) Dowling

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 96 09:57:00 PST
From: taube@hum.huji.ac.il
Subject: Knas-mol

knas is indeed 'fine', especially fine for seducing a girl, and mol is
indeed 'meal'. There is also a verb farknasn 'betroth', participle
farknast 'engaged'.

It seems that the knas does not derive from 'fine' but rather from the
initials kna"s, i.e. kinyan sudar, which is a binding ceremony (usually
of acquisition) carried out in front of witnesses by passing a
handkerchief from hand to hand.

Moyshe Taube

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:52:51 -0700 (MST)
From: feller@indirect.com
Subject: Is Yiddish dying?

Statistics on the pulse and temperature of the dying patient, Yiddish,
are hard to come by.  Let me just say that at the Third International
Conference of Yiddish Clubs & Friends of Yiddish which will take place in
Miami, March 1-4, 1996 this question will be addressed, and positive
actions suggested to stop the dying process and to start the healing
process.

Morrie Feller
Phoenix

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 16:00:20 -0500
From: bochner@das.harvard.edu
Subject: Is Yiddish dying?

Vegn Mr. Goodmans nevies:

1. Di mayse hot shoyn a groye bord.

2. Far vos zol men avekpatern koyekh haltn a vikuekh mit a yid an
   antisemit? Dos zet mir oys vi sines-khinem, un oyb azoy, veln keyn
   rayes nisht helfn.

Khayem Bochner

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:00:23 -0500 (EST)
From: bkatz@uoguelph.ca
Subject: Is Yiddish dying?

I might have "yes" to this question a dozen years ago, but not now.  My
youngest child, just turned 20 (a gezint ohf ir kepale), attended local
community Yiddish classes for a year, then went to Columbia for the
summer program this past summer and has just returned from Klezcamp. I am
convinced by her own enthusiasm as well as the enthusiasm of her peers
and of mine own peers who are involved in learning and enjoying Yiddish,
that the language and the culture are healthier than they have been for a
very long time.  Reena said that there were about 400 people at Klezcamp,
including lots of little kids!  Y'asher koyakh!

Bernard Katz
Guelph, Ontario

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 14:48:01 PST
From: bm.yib@rlg.stanford.edu
Subject: Is Yiddish dying?

Apropos of the death of Yiddish, this afternoon three young (17- or
18-year-old) Hasidic bokherim wandered into the YIVO Library and when I
saw them looking confusedly at the card (yes, card) catalog, I said (in
English), "Can I help you find some- thing?"  One of them turned to his
friend and said (more or less), "Efsher kensti redn mit em.  Ekh red nit
ka English."

Zachary Baker

8)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:30:41 -0500
From: zellig@aol.com
Subject: Where are the k'nishes?

An israeli soldier, on a visit to his folks in Queens (New York), was
shown by his uncle, a khaver Mendelyaner, my recent post "Why the 'K'
rations in Israel's army are a m'khaye..." (5.204,6), and the soldier's
immediate reaction was a puzzling question:  "And where are the
k'nishes?"

By an inexcusable oversight I left out this delicious dish from the list
of the so-called "K" rations in Israel's army (although it was in my
draft).

The soldier then added that these rations are known in the Israeli army
by the menu of the day, namely:

        Zuntik -------  kashe, or kashe varnishkes
        Montik -------  katshke,
        Dinstik ------- kishke,
        Mitwokh ------- k'neydlekh,
        Donershtik ---  k'nishes (choice of potato k'nishes or
                                chopped liver k'nishes),
        Fraytik ------- kreplekh,
        Shabes -------  kugl.

He further shared with his American relatives the rumor that the Israeli
Army is commissioning a well known songwriter and composer to make these
daily "K" rations into a joyous, vibrating marching song...

Zellig Bach

9)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 17:25:19 EST
From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu
Subject: Pluperfect

wuold anyone (mikhl, beatrice, dovid...) know when the current form of
the pluperfect dates from? i mean the form where _gehat_ behaves like an
invariant particle:

ikh hob gehat getantst... 'i had danced'
ikh bin gehat avekgegangen... 'i had gone away'

a dank -- un a gut yor!

ellen prince

10)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:08:57 -0800
From: nrosenbl@interserv.com
Subject: Graf Pototsky

There is a Yiddish expression "Denkst as du bist Graf Pototsky?" which
apparently refers to an 18th Century Polish nobleman who was kind to the
Jews in his district, and is said to have converted to Judaism.

Some say that Graf Pototsky is an apocrophal character; others say he was
a real person. Does any Mendelyaner know, or know of an authoritive
reference?

A sheynem dank!

Norman Rosenblatt

11)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 09:00:36 CST
From: ga2872@siucvmb.siu.edu
Subject: Learning Yiddish

I had parents, one of whom spoke fluent Yiddish and the other who merely
understood it. There was neither encouragement nor discouragement. I went
to Hebrew school and learned enough to get through bar mitzvah. Then I
got involved with various progressive political movements where Judiasm
and Yiddish seemed the farthest from my concerns. Yet in recent years I
have taken a renewed interest and at this late date (I am 71) I feel a
need to learn the language. I l;ive in a Southern Illinois area where
there are few Jews. I have been trying to stir up an interest in starting
a Yiddish course. Can anyone suggest tapes, books, sources of help?

Cyril Robinson

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 5.207