Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 5.211 January 10, 1996 1) A footnote to Potocki (Dan Slobin) 2) Pluperfect (Meyer-Leyb Wolf) 3) Pluperfect (Ellen Prince) 4) Congress for Jewish Culture request (Daniel Soyer) 5) Hasofe (David Sherman) 6) Translation needed (Lauren B. Eisenberg Davis) 7) Is Yiddish dying? (Ellen Prince) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 22:37:29 +0100 (MET) From: slobin@mpi.nl Subject: A footnote to Potocki As a footnote to the Potocki stories, I recently learned from a friend in Cracow that the family is alive and flourishing in the new Poland. The old Graf Potocki died recently, and the current Graf has returned to Cracow from California to restore the family palace on the main square of the city, now that the palace has been returned to the family. (The name has always had a personal connection for me, too, because my family came from Uman--a part of Ukraine that belonged to the Potocki family in the 18th century. The Graf Potocki of that time built a still-famous pleasure garden in Uman for his sweetheart, Sofia (the Sofievka). Whenever my grandmother wanted to refer to something as having happend long ago, she would say: "Dos is geveyn in Potocki's tsaytn.") Dan Slobin 2)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 00:07:21 -0500 From: wolfim@chelsea.ios.com Subject: Pluperfect I apologize for running the topic into the ground, but I am guilty of forgetting the discussion of pluperfect and future perfect in Yudel Mark's 'Gramatik fun der yidisher klal-shprakh' (281ff.). He provides general geographic information on the variants of the form, considering the pluperfect with invariant "gehat" the Central Yiddish (Polish Yiddish) form. Th earliest use of this form that I have uncovered is in Y. Perl's "Mayse meyaveydas ben meylekh": "a mol iz gehat geven zeyer a sheyne nakht...". Perl (1773 - 1839) wrote this parody of R' Nakhmen's tale after 1815, probably before 1820. The quote is from p. 152 of "Joseph Perl, Hasidic Tales and Letters", Ch. Shmeruk & Sh. Verses, Jerusalem, 1969. Meyer-Leyb Wolf 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:36:53 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Pluperfect i thank meyer-leyb wolf for the references he provides on the pluperfect. as for his question, >Ellen Prince's question on the pluperfect ("when the current form of the >pluperfect dates from?") might better be: who decided on the form she >cites and when. i'm not sure what he means. i did not presume that the form i am interested in was the only way to express the pluperfect, in case he believes i did. it is certainly _one_ way to express it and such things are not 'decided on' -- they just happen. in any event thanks for the references and also for pointing out the similarity of the future perfect. ellen prince, aka nanook of the north :) 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: 09 Jan 96 09:53:18 EST From: 74212.2700@compuserve.com Subject: Congress for Jewish Culture request Der yidisher kultur kongres greyt zikh aroystsugebn a nayem numer fun zayn buletin vegn yidishe kultur tetikeytn iber der gantser velt. Er bet deriber az men zol im araynshikn vos mer nayes vegn di tetikeytn fun ale klubn, krayzn, kursn, radio-oyditsies, u'a'v, vos farnemen zikh mit der yidisher shprakh un kultur. The Congress for Jewish Culture is preparing to publish a new issue of its newsletter concerning Yiddish cultural activity throughout the world. It therefore asks that people send it news concerning the acitvities of all clubs, circles, courses, radio programs, etc., that concern Yiddish language and culture. The address of the Congress is: Congress for Jewish Culture, 25 East 21st Street, New York, NY 10010. Daniel Soyer 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:27:14 EST From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca Subject: Hasofe Noyekh [5.211] quotes Philologus: "az m'vil nit dem khazen, heyst er zikh nokh gebn a hasofe", and queries the translation of hasofe as "encore". Isn't a hasofe an additional aliye inserted into the Shabbos morning leynen, so that the same parshe is covered in more than 7 aliyes? (Also known as the bane of the balkore, if I can speak from experience.) I'm not sure how that fits into the quote, however, unless the meaning is that hasofes will delay the beginning of musaf (the khazn's traditional major display is musaf kedushe), and thus force the khazn to speed up in order to be finished by normal time. [To those who don't understand a word of the above: sorry, it's too involved to translate. Eliyahu Juni was right.] David Sherman Toronto 6)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 15:04:35 PST From: merlyn@access.digex.net Subject: Translation needed David Argoff recommended that I contact you. I have acquired a large collection of old family letters, dated 1897-1945. Most are in Yiddish. I am having a hard time getting them translated. There are too many to consider hiring someone. The few people at shul who read Yiddish have shied away because I believe that much of the material may be Holocaust related. Mr. Argoff thought that you might be able to help. I really appreciate any help you can give. I think the letters may be quite important, perhaps not just to me and my family. Thank you. Lauren B. Eisenberg Davis 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:36:53 EST From: ellen@central.cis.upenn.edu Subject: Language death miki safadi [5.208] writes: "Dying? No! Disappearing as a spoken language? Yes, nebekh,..." one little point. languages are said to die when they disappear as a spoken language, or, more precisely, when they cease to be learned by young children 'at their mother's knee' so to speak, i.e. in the normal way. there are many dead languages that are in fact spoken by those who have learned it in other ways and at other ages, e.g. latin and sanskrit. one other semi-relevant note: something like 80% of the currently living languages of the world will be dead in a hundred years, if the trends of the last millenium continue. most of these are in places like new guinea and indonesia but the forces at issue are the same all over: shift from small tribal (ethnic) community to larger multi-tribal community, with speakers shifting from their original tribal language to the language of the multi-ethnic community. if anyone is interested, nancy dorian has done some very fine research over the past two decades documenting language death in western scotland, and i'd be happy to supply references. ellen prince ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 5.211 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. 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