Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
______________________________________________________
Contents of Vol. 5.256
February 15, 1996

1) Khsidish or misnagdish (Zelma Teicher)
2) Khsidish or misnagdish (Andrew Sunshine)
3) Khsidish or misnagdish (Paul Weichsel)
4) -ekhts and -ekh (Khayem Bochner)
5) Yiddish influence on Arabic? (Daniel Bugel)
6) Can "ober" mean "or"? (David Sherman)
7) Der letster Mohicaner (Michael Steinlauf)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 10:20:27 -0800 (PST)
From: zizi@ns1.aplatform.com
Subject: Der rebe Elimeylekh

Louis Friedlander commented on "Sha Shtil" and "Der Rebe Elimeylekh". I agree
they are sophisticated humor and not meant to disparage. Except for the
obvious tear jerkers (ex. Yidishe mame, A brivele der mamen, Papirosn, Vos
geven iz geven un nitu, etc.) I find humor in many of the Yiddish songs but
only within the Yiddish language. When translated into English they take on a
different meaning and are no longer humorous. So when listening to our music,
just "think Yiddish."

Zelma Teicher

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:07:27 -0500 (EST)
From: als55@columbia.edu
Subject: Old King Cole a.k.a. Der rebe Elimeylekh

My young son owns a "Sharon, Lois, and Bram" tape on which Old King Cole and
Der rebe elimeylekh are played as a medley. It was interesting to learn that
the Yiddish lyrics were composed by Moyshe Nadir.

Andrew Sunshine

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 17:07:28 -0600
From: weichsel@math.uiuc.edu
Subject: Elimeylekh

The most convincing evidence that "Rebbe Elimeylekh" was meant satirically is
the fact that the composer was Moshe Nadir.  Anyone that knows Nadir's
writings would have no doubt that that song was not written in a spirit of
reverence.

Paul Weichsel

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 19:00:43 -0500
From: bochner@das.harvard.edu
Subject: -ekhts and -ekh

Kalman Weiser passed on Roger Lass's query about the etymology of two Yiddish
suffixes. I've already been in touch with Prof. Lass (with only partial
answers, I might note); he tells me that he has received answers, and that
he'll post a summary once replies stop coming in. So, rather than passing on
the partial information I got from him, I'll wait, and try to remember to pass
on the summary when it appears on the Linguist list.

Khayem Bochner

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 1996 01:45:31 +0100
From: ind1116@nic.inbe.net
Subject: Yiddish influence on Arabic?

A recent question reminded me of a list I once had --sorry, no references, it
was a long time ago-- of Hebrew and Hebrew slang on Palestinian usage of
Arab. Quite some slang words on this list were of Yiddish origins.

I don't know if Hebrew-slang tshik-tshak for 'right away', 'very fast' etc. is
of Yiddish origins. It is not semitic, that's sure. I once heard two
Palestinian masons chatting in Arabic, and then their boss or whoever it was
came by and shouted: tshaktshekuha, which would be the correct way of saying
in Arabic: 'finish her off, quickly' (her being the wall )-- if tsh, k, tsh
and k had been an Arab word root, which they weren't, but could have been.

So that's a possible example I witness to myself. More of this was on the
list, which I regret now not to have anymore.

Daniel Bugel
Antwerp, Belgium

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 20:07:23 EST
From: dave@cai.lsuc.on.ca
Subject: "ober" = "or"

"Ober" can indeed mean "or" in some dialects. My in-laws, both native speakers
from Staszow, Poland (both born in the early 1920s), use it this way. E.g., my
father-in-law is standing with two candies in his hand, impatiently waiting
while one of my kids tries to choose which one they want. "Nu, velkhe visti,
dus ober dus?"

Interestingly, when my mother-in-law speaks English, she uses "or" when she
means "but", typically to begin a sentence. (I don't hear her speak English
that often since she speaks Yiddish to us and our kids, but I've heard it
occasionally.) I believe my father-in-law uses "but" correctly when speaking
English.

I believe this may track back to a confusion (in early childhood? in a
previous generation?) between "ober" and "oder", but it's hard to say. Mikhl?

David Sherman, Toronto

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 22:20:06 -0500 (EST)
From: m_steinlauf@acad.fandm.edu
Subject: Der letster Mohicaner

Ever since the discussion of the phrase "letster mohicaner," [5.242] it's been
echoing in my head. I knew I had come across it in a Holocaust context, but it
took me a while to locate it. It's in a poem by Shmerke Katsherginski that
some of us students of Joshua Rothenberg (z"l) translated some fifteen years
ago at Brandeis (and later published in a bilingual anthology entitled "And
They Will Call Me..."/"Un zey veln mikh rufn..."). The title of the poem,
which Katsherginski wrote while fighting with the Voroshilov partisans in
White Russia, is "Yid, Du Partizaner"; the last stanza reads:

S'vort "nekome" hot a zin
Ven mit blut farshraybt im,
Far dem heylikn bagin
Firn mir di shtraytn.
Neyn, mir veln keyn mol zayn
Letste mohicaner, --
S'brengt di nakht -- di zunenshayn,
Der yid -- der partizaner.

"Vengeance" is a word with meaning
When you write it in blood.
For the holy dawn
We carry on our struggles.
No, we shall never be
The last of the Mohicans.
The night brings the sunshine,
The Jew -- the partisan.

Al dos guts,
Michael Steinlauf

______________________________________________________
End of Mendele Vol. 5.256

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