Mendele: Yiddish literature and language ______________________________________________________ Contents of Vol. 6.106 November 26, 1996 1) The survival of Yiddish (Dovid Braun) 2) The survival of Yiddish (Leah Krikun) 3) Vi me zogt af idish "l'hitraot" (Arik Grunberg) 4) A tikn toes (Joachim Neugroschel) 5) Helfn vi a toytn bankes (Loretta Denner) 6) Yiddish for kids (Leah Krikun) 7) Yiddish children's games sources (Robert Shapiro) 1)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:41:46 EST From: dovid@mit.edu Subject: The survival of Yiddish Thanks to Mechl Asheri, for an interesting posting [6.104]. His observations about Yiddish usage in various communities were very informative. Observations such as these which appear periodically on Mendele will some day serve as historiographic sources, given the dearth of description available on most of Jewish life as it is actually lived, not to mention the life of minority groups within klal-yisroel (and, further, not to mention Yiddish- speaking Jews, who all too frequently are assumed to be dead or near death). A criticism: I think we may abandon the notion Asheri expresses in this sentence: "It must be remembered that before the Holocaust Jewish communities were, if not hermetically sealed off from the world of the non-Jews, so close to it as made little difference." The fact that some of the khsidim he mentioned speak to each other in Hungarian (while living in 1996 in New York or Israel! -- not Satmer, Ihel, Siget, or Klouznborg) indicates just how invalid the "hermetically sealed" metaphor is. Dovid Braun Cambridge, MA 2)---------------------------------------------------- From: lejim@netvision.net.il Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 21:18:26 PST Subject: The survival of Yiddish I was particularly interested in Mechel Asheri's comments, which in many particulars were similar to the concern I "voiced" in my first contribution to Mendele (vol. 6.080, 15th October). I hope there will be more letters on this subject, as the goal of Mendelniks, in addition to exchanging so many viewpoints, questions, etc. is, I feel, to keep our beloved mameloshn alive and well, today and for years to come. I look forward to more mail on this subject. A sheynem dank. Leah (Selchen) Krikun 3)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:39:14 -0500 (EST) From: agrunb1@tiger.towson.edu Subject: Vi me zogt af idish "l'hitraot" Vos iz der ekvivalent funem hebreyishe vort: l'hitraot? Arik Grunberg 4)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:05:26 -0500 (EST) From: achim1@cris.com Subject: A tikn toes In volume 6.105 I accidentally wrote "acusative" instead of "nominative." I meant to say that the _nominative_ case is used for the subject of a verb not for the object (in the quoted line the case should have been the dative). Sorry about the typo. Joachim Neugroschel 5)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:27:57 -0800 From: ldenner@floyd.santarosa.edu Subject: Helfn vi a toytn bankes Yet another reading of 'svet helfn vie a toyten bankes: As I recall the expression, it took the form of "...vie a toyten's bankes." The possessive form would suggest that the bankes have been applied/belong to the dead person. Hence, the more conventional reading that the analogy is being drawn between the pointless situation in question and the effectiveness (ineffectiveness?) of attempting to cup a dead person. Loretta Denner Santa Rosa, Ca. 6)---------------------------------------------------- From: lejim@netvision.net.il Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 21:10:18 PST Subject: Yiddish for kids 1. "Telling on someone" - my husband, who was born in Cuba and whose family moved to Boro Park in Brooklyn when he was 11, remembers that in Cuba, where they spoke Yiddish at home, an un-Englishized Yiddish - the expression used was "ich vel oyf dir masern" (from moyser, presumably). I seem to recall, growing up in Winnipeg, saying "ich vel oyf dir zogn" - prost un poshet 2. Please oyf yiddish - isn't it interesting that we have no official word for this - what does this say about us (please regard this question as rhetorical). There are, of course, in addition to Mr. Neugroschel's suggestions, "ken ikh", "meg ikh", and so on. But I have to agree with David Herskovic's suggestion of "please", English being as widely understood as it is; "please" may work where other really Yiddish expressions fail. Leah (Selchen) Krikun 7)---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 12:17:10 -0500 From: shapiror@ramaz.org Subject: Yiddish children's games sources Roman Vishniac's daughter should look into Yekhiel Shtern's book, Kheyder un besmedresh, published by YIVO around 1950, in the Yivo-bleter and then as a separate book. There is an abbreviated translation in one of the early volumes of the YIVO Annual. Robert Shapiro ______________________________________________________ End of Mendele Vol. 6.106 Mendele has 2 rules: 1. Provide a meaningful Subject: line 2. Sign your article (full name please) Send articles to: mendele@yalevm.cis.yale.edu Send change-of-status messages to: listserv@yalevm.cis.yale.edu a. For a temporary stop: set mendele nomail b. 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