Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 6.180
January 2, 1997

1) Yiddish in the liturgy (Les Train)
2) Yiddish in the liturgy (Michael Shimshoni)
3) "Blond" af yidish (Joachim Neugroschel)
4) Yiddish in UCLA (Miki Safadi)
5) Jet-lag af yidish (Leybl Botvinik)
6) Yiddish dictionaries (A. Joseph Ross)

1)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:45:23 -0500 (EST)
From: ltrain@chass.utoronto.ca
Subject: Yiddish in the liturgy

Mechl Asheri writes [6.176] that the liturgy is "a rite or body of rites
prescribed for public...". By that definition then, no other language
other than Hebrew or Aramaic can ever be found in this definition of
liturgy, since the Matbea hatfilo (The immutable, unchanging nature of
the prayers (literally:'a struck coin')) was 'stamped' way before
Yiddish - or English, Ladino etc. ever came onto the scene. So, if there
is to be any discussion at all as to the role of Yiddish in prayer
(read: liturgy), a broader, more inclusive term should be embraced.

PS  In some sephardic haggodes the bentshing,and some seder songs are in
large part in Ladino - whole paragraphs, not just a line or two.

Les Train

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 10:46:10 +0200
From: mash@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
Subject: Yiddish in the liturgy

There have been  several contributions on what was said  in Yiddish or
Hebrew  before  the  benshen  (mzumen).   Being a  yekke  I  had  some
recollections on what my late father used to say, but have no one left
to have it confirmed.  I now found the sidur of my late mother in law,
one which has been arranged and translated into German by Rabbi Samson
Raphael Hirsch, and published by his son Mendel in 1894.

The  German translation  is  printed opposite  the  Hebrew version  in
Gothic script,  but the instructions and  words not quite part  of the
sidur are given when in Hebrew, in Hebrew (square) script, but when in
German  (and clearly  *not* Yiddish)  in some  unusual Hebrew  script,
somewhat close to the Rashi script, but not quite the same.

Now  the Hebrew  introduction  to  the benshen  is  given  (I use  the
sepharadi pronunciation,  disliked by Hirsch  but easier for me)  as :
rabotai hav lan un'varekh.  This extra  "hav lan" which is Aramaic IMO
translates best  as "let  us", but  experts may  have another  view on
that.  Now the German version after the word rabotai says: "wir wollen
benschen" and it  is clear that it  is "wollen".  I give  the above as
some input  to the  interesting discussion of  using Yiddish  but also
other foreign languages in the liturgy.

Michael Shimshoni

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 09:36:47 -0500 (EST)
From: achim1@cris.com
Subject: "Blond" af yidish

The German adjective "blond" covers a wider range than the English
"blond" (which also implies blue eyes) and can refer to a hair color
that would be called "light brown" in English (as I have experienced in
my personal documents).  Can anyone tell me how dark the Yiddish
adjective "blond" can get?  I would prefer informants from areas where
the coterritorial languge does not contain the cognate "blond" since it
may influence their perception of the Yiddish word.

Joachim Neugroschel

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:34:56 -0700
From: msafadi@ucla.edu
Subject: Yiddish in UCLA

Prof. Janet Hadda hot oysgebesert mayn meldung vegn Yiddishe korsn in
UCLA (Mendele 6.168).  Zie zogt az es vet zayn elemtare klasn in
1997-98, un zi hot gelernt a Yiddish kors letztn kvartl.  Andere klasn
vos zi lernt zaynen vegn literatur.  Ikh hof, az in der tsukumft vet
zayn a sakh mer informatsie vegn   Yiddish klasn in UCLA.

Miki Safadi

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:03:31 +0200 (IST)
From: leybl@telecomm.tadiran.co.il
Subject: Jet-lag af yidish

ikh vil zogn, az es iz mir zeyer gefeln dem kolirfuln un raykhn taytsh
"khulshe deporkhe" vos iz ongegebn gevorn nit lang tsurik farn eynglishn
"Jet-lag".

fundestvegn, bin ikh oykh maskim, az J-L meynt nit davke tsu zayn
farmatert, nor az der guf/dos kop iz tsemisht vos shaykh shoen fun
tog/nakht/esn...

dos vort "to lag" oyf english hot a yidishn taytsh: "blaybn/zayn
hintershtelik" = to lag behind especially in work.

ken men deroyf makhn: fli-hintershtelik; flintershtelik; oder
flishtelik.

tsi men vet dos nutsn -- ver veyst? tsi ikh vel es aleyn nutsn -- ver
veyst?

beste grusn fun yidishn land. vi ir vilt es nit onrufn, kumt tsu unds
zayt a bisl flishtelik/dzhet-lagish, farflantst do vortslen, un alts vet
zikh oysarbetn.

a gut yor,

leybl botvinik
netanya

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:48:28 -0500 (EST)
From: lawyer@world.std.com
Subject: Yiddish dictionaries

I've already noticed the deficiencies of the Weinreich dictionary.  I
once tried to look up the common word "tokhes," which, as we all know,
is rapidly entering the English language, and it wasn't there, either as
an entry in the Yiddish side or as a translation for "buttocks" in the
English side.  Others then told me that Weinreich was a prude and didn't
include any words he considered vulgar.  I thought this was interesting,
since the word "tokhes" is in the 1898 Harkavy dictionaries, published
when Queen Victoria still reigned.

I have the Harkavy's 1898 Yiddish-English and English-Yiddish
dictionaries, which once belonged to my grandparents.  I also have my
grandfather's Harkavy's Yiddish-English-Hebrew dictionary, but I have
the 1928 edition.  Why is this considered not as good as the 1925
edition?

I studied Yiddish with Weinreich's "College Yiddish."  Does he teach
incorrect Yiddish there, too?

A. Joseph Ross

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End of Mendele Vol. 6.180