In article <12SEP92.21451841@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes: >In a previous article, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) wrote: >> >>"Sugar and other carbohydrates do not require the copious flow of >>hydrochloric acid as do proteins, but just enough to further cleave >>the cellulose of the foods into an emulsion. Starches have an affinity >>for pepsin, which is needed in large amounts for protein digestion. >>When this pepsin is lacking due to the absorbing action of the >>starches, the proteins are not proplerly split into peptones. As a >>result, putrefaction takes place. Furthermore, the starches will >>ferment, causing a souring of the stomach and the formation of gas. >>Continued indigestion will ultimately cause the breakdown of vital >>structures which can result in ulcers and even cancer. Therefore >>carbohydrates and proteins should be eaten at separate meals." >>Dr. Herbert M. Shelton >> > >I'm confused. Aren't many foods a combination of carbohydrates and proteins >anyway? Also, doesn't any theory on diet have to have anthropological >evidence? I.e. did people use to eat such foods separately? I don't see such >evidence in existing diets around the world, but I would be interested in >hearing about such evidence. --MORE--(63%) > >Mark I posted this before, but it got chewed up in transit (pun intended) I have an undergraduate degree in Microbiology and Immunology. I also got a few courses in Biochemistry along with that deal. I know for a fact that it is impossible for putrefaction or fermentation to take place in the stomach. The human body does not make enzymes that are involved in those processes. The neccessary enzymes for fermentation and putrefaction come from bacteria or yeast, and unless you are very ill those critters will *not* be present in your stomach. The HCl would bump them off in seconds. Therefore, any statement that a certain food combination will cause putrefaction or fermentation in the stomach must be false. This information is contained in the Microbiology Text written by Cano and Colome, whic was published in the late 80's. It is also possible that there is more information in some of the other books that are currently scattered throughout my apartment. I will post complete references on request. Annette End of article 265 (of 416)--what next? [npq] 265 sci.med.nutrition #265 (37 + 134 more) | | \-(1)--(1) From: Annette C. Hollmann | \-(1)+-(1) [1] Re: VEGETARIAN DIET | |-(1)+-[1]+-[1]- Date: Sat Sep 12 20:04:13 1992 | | | \-[1] Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, | | \-[1]+-[1]+ + Houston, Tx | | | Lines: 44 Nntp-Posting-Host: mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu In article <12SEP92.21451841@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu writes: >In a previous article, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) wrote: >> >>"Sugar and other carbohydrates do not require the copious flow of >>hydrochloric acid as do proteins, but just enough to further cleave >>the cellulose of the foods into an emulsion. Starches have an affinity >>for pepsin, which is needed in large 311 sci.med.nutrition #311 (28 + 134 more) | | \-(1) From: Annette C. Hollmann | \-(1)+-(1)+-(1) [1] Re: VEGETARIAN DIET | | \-(1) Date: Tue Sep 15 01:44:22 1992 | \-[1] Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, \-[1] + Houston, Tx --( )+-[4]--[4] Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu Of all the bacteria that you ingest, one in a million will make it through the stomach alive. Try putting a lab bacterium (usually a harmless version of E.coli) in 0.1M HCl for 3 hours at 37 degrees celsius. Those critters will be toast. It is therefore impossible for a sufficient number of bacteria to be in the stomach to cause putrefaction or fermentation. The reason you can get food poisoning like salmonella is that you could ingest millions of the bugs (yuck) and it is the one in a million that makes it through the stomach that gets you. Note - even though one in a million bacteria survives the HCl - it sure won't be happily metabolizing in the stomach. It will be on minimal function to ride out the adverse conditions. --MORE--(91%) Annette P.S. If you don't believe facts that have been tested by scientific experiments, what do you believe? End of article 311 (of 416)--what next? [npq] sci.med.nutrition #321 (25 + 134 more) | | \-(1) From: D.McAlpin | \-(1) [4] Re: Annette is Right (was: VEGETARIAN \-( )+-( )--( )+-(4)--[4] + DIET) | |-[6] Date: Tue Sep 15 10:38:35 1992 | \-[2] Organization: University of Missouri \-( )--[1] Lines: 36 Nntp-Posting-Host: mizzou1.missouri.edu In sci.med.nutrition, strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes: > This is not usually accurate. Most meat is "aged" for flavor. Aging > is a polite way of saying the meat is left to putrefy, tenderizing > it and giving it more "flavor." Unless one is eating fresh Kosher > meat, one is likely to be ingesting massive amounts of putrefaction > bacteria every time one eats meat--and I don't even want to think of > those who like their meat rare or medium. > Putrefaction bacteria are usually held in the colon of the animal > by osmotic pressure, and when the animal is killed they saturate > the cells of the meat, even before "hanging" or "aging." > Then there's salmonella. According to the Department of Agriculture > about 37% of chicken carcasses carry salmonella, roughly constant over > a decade. Chickens are copraphagous, a polite way of saying they eat > each others' droppings. During slaughtering the birds' entrails occasionally --MORE--(56%) > According to a Newsweek article, "There are simply too many opportunities > for food to spoil, as every microbiologist has known since Pasteur" So > much for Annette's textbooks. You obviously don't know the difference between organisms that cause fermentation and those that produce toxins. Yeast, unless it has enspored, cannot survive the pH that a healthy stomach reaches (a pH of 1.0- or, for the chemically challanged, *way* acidic). Any fermentation takes place in the small and large intestines. Since the intestines carry their *own* bacteria, they are quite used to it (ever hear of E coli?). Bacteria such as salmonella are called endotoxins, meaning that they carry toxins within their cell walls, which are released on lysis (rupture of the cell wall). With these bacteria you are actually *poisoned*. These toxins are absorbed almost immediately, and can produce symptoms very quickly. They have nothing to do with fermentation or putrefication (do people really still *use* that word?). Annette, stick by your textbooks. This is afterall sci.med.nutrition, not nat'l.enquir.sounds-good-to-me. Diane End of article 321 (of 416)--what next? [npq] sci.med.nutrition #301 (19 + 134 more) | | \-(2) From: Steve Dyer | \-( )--(1) Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg \-(1)+-[1] [1] Re: VEGETARIAN DIET \-[3] Date: Mon Sep 14 23:15:03 1992 -( )--[1]+-( )--[5]--[5]--[5] Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, \-[1] + Cambridge MA Lines: 24 In article <1992Sep14.144320.25933@advtech.uswest.com> glw@ioit.uswc.uswest.com (Glenn Williams) writes: >Food combining isn't new. In Diet for a Small planet, it's covered in detail. >That book pre-dates Fit for Life by almost ten years. Puhhlease. The "food combining" in _Diet for a Small Planet_ talked about mixing vegetarian foodstuffs in recipies such that their amino acid contents complemented each other, so that the quality of the ingested protein approached that of meat, eggs and dairy. In fact, it was an excessively fussy approach which turns out not to be strictly necessary--you don't need to eat nominally "complete" proteins at every meal, as long as you're getting what you need over the space of a day or so. Lappe herself repudiates this in later books. But even if it were still considered valid, it would have nothing to do with the Diamonds' zany pseudo-science. --MORE--(73%) The Diamonds' advice on food combining is nonsense on what NOT to eat together, based on bizarre theories of digestion. Don't eat anything but fruit in the AM, don't eat fruit with anything else, and never eat melon unless it's alone. It's just dumb, if you consider the theories behind it (fruit "ferments" in the stomach if you eat it with "carbo- hydrates" [as if fruit weren't a carbohydrate] or protein.) -- Steve Dyer dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer End of article 301 (of 416)--what next? [npq] As for the Diamonds, the book tells of 29 years of combined "study" in nutrition. I was quick to notice that the word "Dr." was prominently absent from the author's title. They claim to have a Ph.D. in Nutritional Science from American College of Health Science in Austin, Texas. If that's the case, where's the "Ph.D." in the author's name? Not there! Why, you may ask? Because the college that 'conferred' the degree is not accredited by any organization. If fact, it no longer exists by that name. The name changes went as follows: American College of Health Sciences became American College of Life Sciences which became College of Life Sciences which became Life Sciences which finally became Health Excellence, all run by Dr(?) T.C. Fry. Now for the good stuff. The so called college is nothing more than a diploma mill operating from a store front here in Austin. It's located on Burleson Road, in the south part of town. A local TV investigative crew went down to check them out and found two women manning telephones. So Dave, for about $1200, you too can be as qualified as the Diamonds. Excellent articles on matters like this are found in the publication "ANNUAL EDITIONS: NUTRITION 91/92" from the Dushkin Publication Group. The ISBN is 1-56134-027-8 and may be found in a university book store --MORE--(78%) (my wife's was). Look in to article 52 'Twenty-One Ways to Spot A Quack' by Victor Herbert, MD/JD and Stephen Barret, MD and article 53 'The Unhealthy Alliance: Crusaders for "Health Freedom"' by Stephen Barret. Actually, the publication carries articles of greater scope than this. The articles (66 in total) are too many to list. There is an article on hypoglycemia that sheds some interesting information (article 28). Worth browsing, if possible. I now leave this thread for others to discuss. I will peruse at my leasure the slings and arrows sure to come from the nutrional fringe. Enjoy it Dave. P.S. Keep up the good work, Steve Dyer. I'm on your side on this one. Jaime Vazquez AIX Technical Support IBM AWD-Austin/2830 6000: jaime@unicorn.austin.ibm.com <-- New machine address InterNet: jaime@austin.vnet.ibm.com or jaime%austin@vnet.ibm.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- End of article 408 (of 416)--what next? [npq] 360 sci.med.nutrition #360 (4 + 133 more) |-[1] From: Franklin Antonio |-[1]--[1] [1] Re: side effects of niacin \-[1]+-[1] Date: Wed Sep 16 01:50:55 1992 |-[1]--[1] Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA \-[1]--[1] Lines: 22 -[1]--( )--[1]--[1] Nntp-Posting-Host: qualcom.qualcomm.com In article <1992Sep15.144548.12558@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes: >In article <1992Sep15.074505.115642@zeus.calpoly.edu> dfield@zeus.calpoly.edu (Daniel "InfoSpunj" Field) writes: >>Dr. Dyer implied monitoring was important for the 500 mg therapy. Is this > >I'm not a doctor. Niacin, in daily doses of 500mg to several grams a >day, may lower certain blood lipids--whether it's suitable for you >depends on your lipid profile. At such doses, it is also associated >with a number of side effects, which is why you don't want to take this >drug without medical supervision. Well, I'm not a doctor either, but I have been taking 500mg /day of time- release Niacin for a couple of years, on a doctor's recommendation. --MORE--(74%)