Subject: Re: Lyndon LaRouche & the Liberty L

From: [email-masked] (Blue Rage)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:22:13 GMT

I think it's a mistake to assume that  fascism is only obtained
through violence.

	Fascism, by the definitions I understand, is the belief that the
needs of the individual are supposed to be subverted to the needs of the
state, which is the agency by which the historical purpose of the nation
is fulfilled.

	Now, since there will probably be people who don't care to go
along with that, it seems that fascism would require some violence or at
least coercion.  But _by definition_ fascism does not require violence.
Lifting Hitlerian images of repression and murder and afixing them to
our images of fascism is not unlike contemplating the excesses of
Stalinism and afixing them to our definition of Marxism.  IMHO, at
least.

	Considering LaRouche's Trotskyist past (SWP, 50's to the early
70's) one can see how he would believe his vision would so enamor the
toiling masses that they would simply welcome the new order with little
fight.  And consider Stalin's policy of "hospitalizing" criminal
elements.  He didn't need to kill them, at least not once he had
consolidated power with his purges.

	Sorry for not including the thread's previous text.  It seemed
unnecessary and confusing.

	-Mike

-- 
Michael Hall    [email-masked]
"If you're not revolting against work, you're working
against revolt." - Bob Black

---

From: [email-masked] (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 16:27:25 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Steve Crocker) writes:

>Well, maybe there's less here than meets the eye. My impression of 
>fascist political movements is that they organize on the basis of
>hatred, by appealing to the most ignorant and violent tendencies 
>among the masses. I would expect a fascist political leader to
>engourage blood lust among his supporters, and terror on the part 
>of his opponents. The death penalty does both. 

They also organized through the use of deception and deceit, as they
realized their agenda is simply unacceptable to the masses. Everyone here
seems to have overlooked that and forged ahead with the mistaken assumption
that fascist organizations tell us things we can actually believe.

>To organize AGAINST the death penalty, on the other hand, is to 
>appeal to reason. It is virtually impossible to speak against
>the death penalty without saying, in effect, "stop and think".
>All the arguements that have been made against the death penalty
>ask the person in the street to suspend their first reaction of
>outrage at some heinous and brutal crime and ask questions like
>"do we really KNOW this is the guilty person", "does execution REALLY
>deter further crimes, or does it just give us a self-righteous rush
>of justified vengence", and finally, "regardless of what a murderer
>has done to others, is he not also a soul o fpotential value? Is
>he not capable of acts of love and beauty just as we are capable of
>acts of depravity? Do we really want to sink to his level?"

>Somehow, it is hard to imagine a fascist constituency being 
>effectively organized to go attack some scapegoat group by
>first being encouraged to ponder such questions.

>Or is it ME that's missing something?

Yes, indeed... During research relating to the beginnings of the Nazi death
camps, one thing quickly became clear. The program to euthanize mental
patients and others was operated in the strictist secrecy. Hitler understood
full well the German people would simply not tolerate such actions, so he
deliberately kept it from them.

In short, why should anyone believe a fascist organization that claims to
oppose the death penalty? LaRouche's in particular - the man's demented
ravings frighten me, particularly when I realize that there are folks out
there who (1) not only claim to _understand_ his rants, but to _agree_ with
them. Scary stuff indeed.

>-Steve

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