From adyer@zarniwoop.chi.il.us  Ukn Jul  8 01:54:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 22:24 PDT
From: adyer@zarniwoop.chi.il.us (Andrew Dyer)
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: misc stuff
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

other stuff I was thinking about:

- we should reserve an input or two for "manufacturing" jumpers
  so that s/w can run some internal diagnostics and board test stuff

- save a few bits to read the SIMM ID bits, so that s/w can know
  what size DRAM is installed in each bank and 'do the right thing'

- a name for the %^*%(* thing, how about 'Foghorn' (after Foghorn
  Leghorn of course)  If that is too Americentric, feel free to suggest
  something else.  Waldorf Salad? LOAM (Linux on a MIPS)?

- for serial/parallel ports on board, how about a 16C552 - two 
  16550 uarts and a IBM compatible centronics parallel port with 8 bit
  cpu interface.  Made by TI and others.  Also don't forget those
  pesky line interface chips.

- we should come up with a power budget to make sure we won't be 
  overtaxing a standard PC power supply.

- does someone have a heat chamber to test this thing at elevated 
  temperature for a while? It may be GPL h/w, but it doesn't have to
  be flaky...

- think about cooling options for the CPU.  The 33MHz 79R3051E in the MJ
  package runs pretty hot - I'm sure the 40MHz 3081E will really cook,
  especially with more cache on chip.  I would plan on a heat sink and/or fan.
  Don't burn your hands :-)

- for debug, put some headers around the CPU for each pin.  If you only 
  run the local bus to the 3730 it will be hard to hook a logic analyzer to
  either the 3730 or the 3081 without using expensive test clips.

- we should budget for appropriate filters and such for EMI.  If waldorf
  wants to sell this commercially it will have to pass VDE and/or FCC
  (or CISPR) and/or other agency approvals.  Does Waldorf have a 
  site where they can scan the unit? Or are they going to do their own
  layout and only test their version?

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but if this is to become a
real product we should pay some attention to these real-world issues
up-front.

 
From caret@pyramid.com  Ukn Jul  8 03:42:36 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9307080740.AA24818@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: Re: misc stuff
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 0:40:51 PDT
In-Reply-To: <m0oDoTA-00039LC@zarniwoop.chi.il.us>; from "Andrew Dyer" at Jul 7, 93 10:24 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
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Status: RO
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> - we should reserve an input or two for "manufacturing" jumpers
>   so that s/w can run some internal diagnostics and board test stuff

I was planning to see what was left of the I/O pins on the 3730 for
just the reason.  Maybe if we run out, we need a spare PAL to implement
these plus some LEDs.

> - save a few bits to read the SIMM ID bits, so that s/w can know
>   what size DRAM is installed in each bank and 'do the right thing'

You don't need that.  Its possible to figure it out in S/W.

> - a name for the %^*%(* thing, how about 'Foghorn' (after Foghorn
>   Leghorn of course)  If that is too Americentric, feel free to suggest
>   something else.  Waldorf Salad? LOAM (Linux on a MIPS)?

Good plan, but don't quit your day job.

> - for serial/parallel ports on board, how about a 16C552 - two 
>   16550 uarts and a IBM compatible centronics parallel port with 8 bit
>   cpu interface.  Made by TI and others.  Also don't forget those
>   pesky line interface chips.

I still think that parallel should go on the ISA bus.  I know its cheap,
but this thing is getting too expensive.  As for RS-232 drivers,
Motorola 145406, has 3 transmitters and 3 receivers.  You need one
per port.

> - does someone have a heat chamber to test this thing at elevated 
>   temperature for a while? It may be GPL h/w, but it doesn't have to
>   be flaky...

My kitchen at about 3pm gets to about 110F!!  :-)  (The sun gets
it just the wrong way.)

> - think about cooling options for the CPU.  The 33MHz 79R3051E in the MJ
>   package runs pretty hot - I'm sure the 40MHz 3081E will really cook,
>   especially with more cache on chip.  I would plan on a heat sink and/or fan.
>   Don't burn your hands :-)

My NCD-19r (with has a LSI r3k) runs warm at 33MHz; cooler than my 486.
There are temperature specs in the 3081 data sheets.  We just need to
check it, as you say.

> - for debug, put some headers around the CPU for each pin.  If you only 
>   run the local bus to the 3730 it will be hard to hook a logic analyzer to
>   either the 3730 or the 3081 without using expensive test clips.

The logic analysers that I have access to come with those clips.  In any
case, Waldorf want a socket next to the CPU, so this would do.

> - we should budget for appropriate filters and such for EMI.  If waldorf
>   wants to sell this commercially it will have to pass VDE and/or FCC
>   (or CISPR) and/or other agency approvals.  Does Waldorf have a 
>   site where they can scan the unit? Or are they going to do their own
>   layout and only test their version?

Hell, I forgot about FCC.  Isn't that a requirement before any sales in
the US?  I've only done designs for the Australian market which doesn't
need FCC (or anything).  Has someone gone though this before?

-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845

 
From andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  8 03:54:37 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 09:34:42 +0200
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	id AA14323; Thu, 8 Jul 93 09:34:42 +0200
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re:  misc stuff
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi everyone !

> - we should reserve an input or two for "manufacturing" jumpers
>   so that s/w can run some internal diagnostics and board test stuff

Good idea. That's what usually do to.

> - save a few bits to read the SIMM ID bits, so that s/w can know
>   what size DRAM is installed in each bank and 'do the right thing'

Good idea too. We have to find out how this could work.

> - a name for the %^*%(* thing, how about 'Foghorn' (after Foghorn
>   Leghorn of course)  If that is too Americentric, feel free to suggest
>   something else.  Waldorf Salad? LOAM (Linux on a MIPS)?

Hey, "Waldorf Salad" tastes good ! What's about "Salad box" instead
of "Pizza box" ? :-) I know, salad in a box is quite unusual, but
the whole thing is quite unusual, right ?
 
> - for serial/parallel ports on board, how about a 16C552 - two 
>   16550 uarts and a IBM compatible centronics parallel port with 8 bit
>   cpu interface.  Made by TI and others.  Also don't forget those
>   pesky line interface chips.

I am still thinking about the SMC FDC37C65x fdc/uart/parallel chip.
I'll try to find out the price today.

> - we should come up with a power budget to make sure we won't be 
>   overtaxing a standard PC power supply.

I doubt that the power consumption will be out of range as long
as we use high integrated cmos stuff.

> - does someone have a heat chamber to test this thing at elevated 
>   temperature for a while? It may be GPL h/w, but it doesn't have to
>   be flaky...

Well, we put the boards in our testrack among several other
things. There's enough heat...

> - think about cooling options for the CPU.  The 33MHz 79R3051E in the MJ
>   package runs pretty hot - I'm sure the 40MHz 3081E will really cook,
>   especially with more cache on chip.  I would plan on a heat sink and/or fan.
>   Don't burn your hands :-)

Heat sink is ok. If people feel the cpu is still too hot, they
can buy an icecap.

> - for debug, put some headers around the CPU for each pin.  If you only 
>   run the local bus to the 3730 it will be hard to hook a logic analyzer to
>  either the 3730 or the 3081 without using expensive test clips.

We might have some sort of "local bus" which means just a large
connector near the cpu with all important signals connected to it.
That should be sufficient.

> - we should budget for appropriate filters and such for EMI.  If waldorf
>   wants to sell this commercially it will have to pass VDE and/or FCC
>   (or CISPR) and/or other agency approvals.  Does Waldorf have a 
>   site where they can scan the unit? Or are they going to do their own
>   layout and only test their version?

Hmmm. Although (or because ?) our favourite product (a small synth expander)
is called MicroWave we have some experience with EMI, filters and so
on. I'll talk to our CAD guy. And, yes, we have a site where we
can scan the unit. 

> I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but if this is to become a
> real product we should pay some attention to these real-world issues
> up-front.

Agreed !

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Waldorf Electronics GmbH, R&D Department
c/o Andreas Busse
Neustrasse 9-12
D-5481 Waldorf
Phone:  +49 (0)2636-80294
Fax:    +49 (0)2636-80188
e-mail: andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
From drew@hazelrah.cs.Colorado.EDU  Ukn Jul  8 04:24:34 1993
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re: misc stuff 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 08 Jul 1993 00:40:51 PDT."
             <9307080740.AA24818@sword.eng.pyramid.com> 
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1993 02:22:51 -0600
From: Drew Eckhardt <drew@hazelrah.cs.Colorado.EDU>
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


    > - we should budget for appropriate filters and such for EMI.  If waldorf
    >   wants to sell this commercially it will have to pass VDE and/or FCC
    >   (or CISPR) and/or other agency approvals.  Does Waldorf have a 
    >   site where they can scan the unit? Or are they going to do their own
    >   layout and only test their version?
    
    Hell, I forgot about FCC.  Isn't that a requirement before any sales in
    the US?  I've only done designs for the Australian market which doesn't
    need FCC (or anything).  Has someone gone though this before?

I've bought PC boards, motherboards, etc, and none of them (except 
the modems, presumably because you plug them into phone lines) came with
FCC ID's or any other sort of FCC documentation.

So, I'm under the impression that individual components (ie, the 
motherboard) don't fall under the FCC's jurisdiction, just completed
systems.
    

 
From rei2!tsprad@uunet.UU.NET  Ukn Jul  8 10:26:58 1993
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Message-Id: <9307081414.AA16363@rei.com>
Subject: Re: misc stuff
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:14:43 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <9307080821.AA14718@rei.com> from "UUCP Login" at Jul 8, 93 03:21:52 am
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Content-Length: 604       
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Neill suggested:
> 
> Good plan, but don't quit your day job.
> 
That's kind of a long name for the thing, but I like the spirit of
it.  Let's see, "DQYDJ"?  Doesn't exactly flow....  Maybe we should
call it "Moonlight" or something like that?

(Actually, the name "riscy" works for me ;-) )

-- 
Ted Spradley   Recognition International, Inc.  Opinions are mine, not theirs.
2701 E Grauwyler Rd. |Your productivity is not enhanced when you're staring
Irving TX 75061      |at that thing.  Your productivity is enhanced when
214-579-6692         |the computer is working and you're doing something else.

 
From andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de  Ukn Jul  8 11:34:28 1993
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From: Andreas Busse <andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 93 17:12:00 +0200
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To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re: misc stuff
Sender: riscy-request@pyramid.com
Reply-To: riscy@pyramid.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> >
> > Good plan, but don't quit your day job.
> > 
> That's kind of a long name for the thing, but I like the spirit of
> it.  Let's see, "DQYDJ"?  Doesn't exactly flow....  Maybe we should
> call it "Moonlight" or something like that?
> 
> (Actually, the name "riscy" works for me ;-) )

Yes, "riscy" is ok for me too. And "Salad Box" is perhaps
a bit "misleading" :-)

Andy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Waldorf Electronics GmbH, R&D Department
c/o Andreas Busse
Neustrasse 9-12
D-5481 Waldorf
Phone:  +49 (0)2636-80294
Fax:    +49 (0)2636-80188
e-mail: andy@resi.waldorf-gmbh.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
