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From: Bill Broadley <broadley@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu>
Subject: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 02:10:01 -0500 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Anyone have the price of the mips chips?  A summary with price, cache, and fpu
would be great.  I'm especially interested if the FPU and non FPU chips
are identical (aside from the fpu) and what the price difference is.  

I've heard rumors about cheap EISA support chipsets anyone know how much
it would add?

-- 
Bill					1st>	Broadley@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu
Broadley@schneider3.lrdc.pitt.edu <2nd 	3rd> 	             Broadley+@pitt.edu
Linux is great.         Bike to live, live to bike.                      PGP-ok


 
From pham@pX4.stfx.ca Wed Jun 23 20:33:55 1993
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From: Hai Pham <pham@pX4.stfx.ca>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:33:29 -0300
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
Status: RO
X-Status: 

On Jun 23,  2:10, Bill Broadley <broadley@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu> wrote:
>
>I've heard rumors about cheap EISA support chipsets anyone know how much
>it would add?
>

If we are going to build this mother board, I was thinking that it might
be wise to have a slot or two (sort of like a local bus or a Mac's CPU
slot) which allows high speed access to memory and the CPU.  We may
eventually want to build upgrade CPU cards, or co-processor(s), or
whatever.  The point is, from past experience, no matter how well designed
a mother board is initially, someone will find a need to add faster
components to it later on and having to do that thru an ISA slot will be a
real liability.  So I think if having such a thing doesn't add too much to
the complexity and/or cost of the mother board, we should give it serious
thought.

hai
pham@px1.stfx.ca



 
From caret@pyramid.com Wed Jun 23 23:09:34 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9306232109.AA27952@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:09:21 PDT
In-Reply-To: <9306230610.AA17111@gossip.pyramid.com>; from "Bill Broadley" at Jun 23, 93 2:10 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
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> Anyone have the price of the mips chips?  A summary with price, cache, and fpu
> would be great.  I'm especially interested if the FPU and non FPU chips
> are identical (aside from the fpu) and what the price difference is.  

Going from memory (I'm at USENIX and my notes are at home):
	79R3051E-20	$79	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
	79R3051E-40	$155	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
	79R3081E-40	$297	(FPU, 8k I-cache, 16k D-cache)
I have prices for all of the various speeds and packages but that's all
I can remember.

-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845

 
From @serv0.cae.wisc.edu:hprisc-12!caret@pyramid.com Wed Jun 23 23:24:08 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9306232109.AA27952@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 14:09:21 PDT
In-Reply-To: <9306230610.AA17111@gossip.pyramid.com>; from "Bill Broadley" at Jun 23, 93 2:10 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Anyone have the price of the mips chips?  A summary with price, cache, and fpu
> would be great.  I'm especially interested if the FPU and non FPU chips
> are identical (aside from the fpu) and what the price difference is.  

Going from memory (I'm at USENIX and my notes are at home):
	79R3051E-20	$79	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
	79R3051E-40	$155	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
	79R3081E-40	$297	(FPU, 8k I-cache, 16k D-cache)
I have prices for all of the various speeds and packages but that's all
I can remember.

-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845



 
From calica@cae.wisc.edu Wed Jun 23 23:30:23 1993
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From: Carlo J. Calica <calica@cae.wisc.edu>
Message-Id: <9306232131.AA20444@hprisc-12.cae.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:31:36 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.2]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> Going from memory (I'm at USENIX and my notes are at home):
> 	79R3051E-20	$79	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
> 	79R3051E-40	$155	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
> 	79R3081E-40	$297	(FPU, 8k I-cache, 16k D-cache)
> I have prices for all of the various speeds and packages but that's all
> I can remember.
> 
So we're looking at a $150 price difference.  But it also doubles the cache.
Personally I'm in favor of dropping Ethernet and video for the FPU.  If we
keep the ISA video we retain the ability to use a somewhat modified XFree
rather than rewriting it.  I also have no use for Ethernet either.  SCSI
should be kept though.  Where else can we cut cost a little to get the FPU?
Or should we increase the cap to <$600 with the FPU. 

--
 /------------------------------+--------------------------------------\
| Carlo J. Calica               | Linux:  Choice of the GNU Generation  |
|     calica@cae.wisc.edu       | Dittos from the People's              | 
 \ University of Wisconsin      | Republic of Madison                  / 

 
From caret@pyramid.com Thu Jun 24 00:26:33 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9306232226.AA10208@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 15:26:11 PDT
In-Reply-To: <9306231833.AA12585@pX4.stfx.ca>; from "Hai Pham" at Jun 23, 93 3:33 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> >I've heard rumors about cheap EISA support chipsets anyone know how much
> >it would add?
> >
> 
> If we are going to build this mother board, I was thinking that it might
> be wise to have a slot or two (sort of like a local bus or a Mac's CPU
> slot) which allows high speed access to memory and the CPU.  We may
> eventually want to build upgrade CPU cards, or co-processor(s), or
> whatever.  The point is, from past experience, no matter how well designed
> a mother board is initially, someone will find a need to add faster
> components to it later on and having to do that thru an ISA slot will be a
> real liability.  So I think if having such a thing doesn't add too much to
> the complexity and/or cost of the mother board, we should give it serious
> thought.

Adding a high speed bus like many have proposed adds to the complexity.
Reliable high speed bus design could be considered an art.  I'm waiting
to see how the main bus stuff panes out before looking into that.

-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845

 
From caret@pyramid.com Thu Jun 24 00:32:02 1993
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From: caret@pyramid.com (Neil Russell)
Message-Id: <9306232231.AA11461@sword.eng.pyramid.com>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 15:31:40 PDT
In-Reply-To: <9306232131.AA20444@hprisc-12.cae.wisc.edu>; from "Carlo J. Calica" at Jun 23, 93 4:31 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

> > Going from memory (I'm at USENIX and my notes are at home):
> > 	79R3051E-20	$79	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
> > 	79R3051E-40	$155	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
> > 	79R3081E-40	$297	(FPU, 8k I-cache, 16k D-cache)
> > I have prices for all of the various speeds and packages but that's all
> > I can remember.
> > 
> So we're looking at a $150 price difference.  But it also doubles the cache.
> Personally I'm in favor of dropping Ethernet and video for the FPU.  If we
> keep the ISA video we retain the ability to use a somewhat modified XFree
> rather than rewriting it.  I also have no use for Ethernet either.  SCSI
> should be kept though.  Where else can we cut cost a little to get the FPU?
> Or should we increase the cap to <$600 with the FPU. 

At the moment I'm figuring <$700.  Cost cutting like this is pointless
until we have the likely costs of the various other components in
the system.  From what I'm guessing though, doing it all for less than
the target price is a definate possible.

-- 
Neil Russell		(The wizard from OZ)
Pyramid Technology			Email:  caret@pyramid.com
3860 N. First Street			Voice:  (408) 428-7302
San Jose, CA 95134-1702			  FAX:  (408) 428-8845

 
From mackinla@cs.curtin.edu.au Fri Jun 25 03:34:45 1993
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From: Patrick Mackinlay <mackinla@cs.curtin.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199306250132.AA23532@vincent.cs.curtin.edu.au>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: riscy@pyramid.com (R3000 PC Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 09:32:02 +0800 (WST)
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>	79R3051E-20	$79	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
>	79R3051E-40	$155	(non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
>	79R3081E-40	$297	(FPU, 8k I-cache, 16k D-cache)

This is a bit late, but I believe the cache sizes above are wrong. As
far as I'm aware, the '51 has 4k i-cache + 2k d-cache. The '52 has 8k
i-cache + 2k d-cache. The '81 I'm not so sure about, but I suspect it's
16k i-cache + 8k d-cache, not as indicated above. Anyone have a book
with the '81 spec?

I suspect there's not much of a price difference between the '51 and
the '52 either - perhaps we'd do well by going for the '52 when the
time comes? As Steve mentioned, we don't really have to worry about
this yet anyhow...

Pat -- "There's only one thing left to do Mama, I got to ding a ding dang
	my dang a long ling long" (Jesus Built My Hotrod -- Ministry)
GCS d* -p+ c++ l++ m--- s+/- !g w- t- r

 
From a080700@hp750a.csc.cuhk.hk Fri Jun 25 04:07:46 1993
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From: Stephen Siu-ming Wong <a080700@hp750a.csc.cuhk.hk>
Subject: Re: cost of fpu?  EISA?
To: mackinla@cs.curtin.edu.au (Patrick Mackinlay)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 10:05:19 HKT
Cc: riscy@pyramid.com
In-Reply-To: <199306250132.AA23532@vincent.cs.curtin.edu.au>; from "Patrick Mackinlay" at Jun 25, 93 9:32 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi Risciers,

>>      79R3051E-20     $79     (non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
>>      79R3051E-40     $155    (non-FPU, 4k I-cache, 8k D-cache)
>>      79R3081E-40     $297    (FPU, 8k I-cache, 16k D-cache)
>
>This is a bit late, but I believe the cache sizes above are wrong. As
>far as I'm aware, the '51 has 4k i-cache + 2k d-cache. The '52 has 8k
>i-cache + 2k d-cache. The '81 I'm not so sure about, but I suspect it's
>16k i-cache + 8k d-cache, not as indicated above. Anyone have a book
>with the '81 spec?
>
>I suspect there's not much of a price difference between the '51 and
>the '52 either - perhaps we'd do well by going for the '52 when the
>time comes? As Steve mentioned, we don't really have to worry about
>this yet anyhow...

Do you guys and gals have benchmark results for '51, '52, and '81?  As
long as all the above CPUs are pin compatible (really?) why should we
argue the choice of CPU?  We can make a board without CPU and everyone
can put in his/her affordable CPU on the board!  Any other special
issue for this setup despite we have to deal with floating point
emulator in software if the hardware doesn't have one?

I think we have to decide (are we already said 40MHz?) the CPU clock
frequency and go on to other tricky part, such as ISA bus, ethernet,
video, etc.

*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*
v Stephen Wong Siu-ming    v internet: stephenwong@cuhk.hk  v
^ Computer Services Center ^ bitnet  : a080700@cucsc.bitnet ^
* Chinese University of    * phone   : (852) 609-8904       *
v Hong Kong                v fax     : (852) 603-5001       v
*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*

 
