========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:19:29 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ann Midori Yoshikawa Subject: John Zorn's game pieces In-Reply-To: On Thu, 9 Nov 1995, David J. Talley wrote: > > Brian Eno developed something called (if my memory serves) "Oblique > Strategies" - which was a series of instructions which were listed on 3 > by 5 cards, which assisted him when coming to an impass while recording. > I don't know where you could find these listed (** net-folks, if you can, > tell me! **), but the instructions were items such as "Accent something > understated" or "leave it going longer" - phrases to call attention to > what he was working with. > Speaking of people who compose using index cards, I am a grad student at UC Santa Cruz and I am working on a paper for a 20th century performance practice class on the game pieces of John Zorn. Has anyone seen or heard any performances of his game pieces (Cobra, Xu Feng, et al) that have not been under Zorn's supervision? I am aware that an ensemble in LA performed "Cobra" without consulting John Zorn and Zorn didn't even recognize the piece when they sent him a tape. However, I don't know the name of that ensemble. I would appreciate any responses because I have access to the double CD recording by hat art and a few recordings done by student ensembles at UCSC and Mills College under the supervision of my teacher, Willie Winant, who played "Cobra" with John Zorn. Thanks in advance, Ann Yoshikawa midori@cats.ucsc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:08:48 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: games I would like to hear more about Zorn's game pieces. Thanks to Ann for bringing up the point about gamemaster supervision. Does Zorn exercise a lot of control over (perhaps during) performance? I'm mostly familiar with the Xenakis' game pieces, competing orchestras, Ozawa challenging other conductors, etc., which is somewhat different, but for both composers there is some game "theory" involved. For those who know more about Zorn's work in this area than I, what is it like? Also, thanks to Peter Schoenhoff for bringing up the Subotnik program. The idea of drawing intrigues me very much, and it reminds me of the UPIC, which provides exciting results! This new piece by Roger Reynolds "Ariadne's Thread" for UPIC and the Arditti Quartet, is fabulous! He came through the ivy to talk about the work, so I don't know if it's available in stores or not. But if it is, check it out. I like how he uses UPIC differently from Xenakis. Are there other composers out there using UPIC? Scott McCoy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:24:42 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bobby Gaines Abernathy Subject: midi setup Hello. First off, I'm a novice in MIDI applications so bare w/ me. I have a Korg 01/w, Cakewalk Pro 3.0, and a SB16 in between the two. My question regards the MIDI Mapper. Could someone, maybe possibly with a similar setup, tell what setup they are using in the Mapper? It (midi mapper) only allows me to use FM setups, rather than the midi setups. I am just getting my feet wet, so any help is more than appreciated. Thanks - Bobby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:19:46 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, Alan M. Bookmiller wrote: > I have an unusual opportunity which is in the developmental stages, and I > thought that perhaps the members of this fine list may be able to direct me > to the best method for connecting the emusic compositional creative > processes and the visual art of a particular world class artist, in this > case Virgil Sova of Philadelphia (remember the name). ..... > Listening to music for inspiration to create art is rather basic IMHO, but > to look at art and create music is difficult especially if one is > undertaking a project where there is no possible theme (unless I can be > convinced otherwise). Any suggestions from the members would be of great > help. I once had a similar stumbling block, and thought of all kinds of different systems to try to bring the visual together with the auditory - most of which did absolutely nothing. I am assuming you are composing this yourself - or are looking to work closely with a composer. If I am WAY off base, please let me know! In the end, all I can really say is it wasn't easy. All I can offer is how I approached developing an approach! I hope this is helpful to you. Brian Eno developed something called (if my memory serves) "Oblique Strategies" - which was a series of instructions which were listed on 3 by 5 cards, which assisted him when coming to an impass while recording. I don't know where you could find these listed (** net-folks, if you can, tell me! **), but the instructions were items such as "Accent something understated" or "leave it going longer" - phrases to call attention to what he was working with. I have heard of topographical representations onto music sheets - i.e. drawn an out-line of the thing, and super-impose it over a staff - where there is an obvious turn or angle could be taken as points to put notes... or a long line would be a sustained note, etc. Similarly, drawing a direct comparison between colors and notes - or key signatures - where the eye follows (depending on the painting - where it leads you) is how the song follows. For example, one may find the Venus de Milo interesting if followed from the legs up (settle down, fellas!) but if represented in a piece of music the marble whiteness may represent a lack of musical contrast, and the gentle curves may be smooth tonal transitions - but the sudden break of the missing arms may result in disharmony or atonal weirdness. There are many ways to approach composition - and composers. If you'd like more ideas - let me know. -- Boldric@Glue.umd.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ humbly, taken from my old teacher chou wen-chung: look at whatever initial idea you might have (no matter how seemingly small or insignificant), and keep referring back to it - at every impasse. the answers will be there if you keep looking and re-thinking the idea however you can. Jeff Talman jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:48:00 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: emusic-l tape compilation, take 3 Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU eric harnden (ronin) wrote: >i think it's long past time since we should do this again. we've all heard about the Team by now, but we don't know much about the rest of us (aside from the various rumbles, rants, and reflections, cogent and otherwise, put forward by a minority of us). the last time was several years ago, under the editorial guidance of cecilia tan, who seems to have gone on to bigger and better things. so it's up to me, i think. i've got a digital audio workstation, can edit and master reasonably professionaly, and would have fun doing it. so... Announcing the Third Emusic-L Compilation Tape. Note: THIS IS ONLY THE PROPOSAL. PLEASE RESPOND WITH COMMENTS ONLY AT THIS TIME, SO THAT I CAN GAUGE THE DESIRABILITY/REASONABLNESS OF THE PROJECT. The proposal is that you send me your material, on either cassette or DAT (44.1 KHz if you want digital transfer all the way.) Send any copyright information you want included on the insert. Send a blank tape of the format you want back. I figure the whole thing should come to an hour. Before I actually receive anything and begin production, I would like some feedback on that and any other questions you feel relevant. Since I'm doing the work, I'll make the editorial decisions, if I get more stuff than I expect. Or heck... , maybe it'll just go long and I'll have to request more tape. In any case, those who submit a blank tape with a stamped, self-addressed envelope will receive the final product in return. If we really like it as a collective, maybe we'll talk about pressing it to CD. this was a reasonably popular little doo-hickey in the past. feel like doing it again? > eric- bless you, i'm in - if so decided. best and fastest way to hear a bunch of fresh stuff from people who make me chuckle, smirk, guffaw, rage, snarl, sputter, question, thank, detest, love, . . . i think the first time i listen it's before i read the label - see if i can match the pieces in any way with their thoughts. please send me the details. jeff talman NYC-USA jetman@tunanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:59:08 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "David J. Talley" Subject: Re: Obliquity In-Reply-To: <199511091810.NAA04786@clark.net> > I herewith post a wonderful summary of the history of the Oblique Strategies, > the Strategies themselves, and a painstaking analysis of the different > editions. Thank you! I cannot tell you how useful this will be! I've been looking (admittedly casually) for about three years for something like this. -- Boldric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:24:48 -0300 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "MRODRIGU.BR.ORACLE.COM" Subject: EMAGIC Logic for PC ... Oi, I'm Marcelo from brazil, and this is my first post to this list. After seeing some opinions here about some sequencers I'd like to know if any of you are using EMAGIC Logic for Windows and where can I download a demo of it from. I've been using cakewalk pro and heard from a couple of people in other list that this Logic stuff is really cool... Comments would be welcome on that. Thanx for now Marcelo Rodrigues Sao Paulo - Brazil \========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:54:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! (all artists strive for something) >Is it to be original, different or maybe to show us a different side of >reality. I would try to figure this out and base my compositions on it. >Remember complexity sometimes drags down the listener. Technology now offers ways around the sonic "mud" of compositional complexity. Peter Gabriel perfected a production technique called gated reverb. The producer cuts the reverb tails off to enable a huge sound without polyphonic "mud." Gustav Mahler, composing over ninety years ago, wrote symphonies for huge orchestras. He got around the pitfalls of complexity by assigning extreme velocity changes: fff at the begining of a phrase...ppp at the end of a phrase, etc. This is still a lot of fun to experiment with, whether you're sequencing or playing. > Think simple. You would not want to distract the listener from the art but enhance their appreciation of it. True. "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" is Mozart's simplest and most easily recalled theme. But his 29th Symphony in D major begins with a sweet and simple theme and progresses through a series of variations and fugal interplay which make the work one of his most interesting. Louis Armstrong took "When The Saints Go Marchin' In" and turned it into a masterpiece. How? Through complicating it. "Several letters suggest Schoenberg felt closer to Berg and Kokoshka than to Webern and Kandinski." -John Cage "A Year From Monday" :) jollyroger@iquest.net busy composing symphony for robert greenhouse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:28:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? >Progressive/reactionary is an unfortunate dimension to lay on art. > I have a feeling that Bach knew more about polyphony than a >lot of academics do today, perhaps because he wasn't hampered by the very >theoretical framework which his music has inspired. I rarely hear a work by >Beethoven without noticing something I hadn't noticed before, which is >either immediately surprising, or surprises upon further reflection of what >the hell is actually going on in the piece. Whether you use Cool, Sound Forge, Digidesign, or other, the progressive side of contemporary musical art will see advancement, not in harmony, but in timbre. This is the age of tone color to the same extent that the earlier centuries developed harmony. More and more, it's a surprise voicing I notice more than the harmony, melody, and rhythm of a piece. Progressives, Brian Eno i.e., have been given the opportunity to morph saxes with electric guitars, trumpets with car horns, saw waves with motorcycle engines. There is more to progress in music than just harmony. Some will react to progress and return to what sounds good to their ears. Hence, in light of Josquin De Pres (sp?) JS Bach might be viewed as reactionary. jollyroger@iquest.net busy composing symphony for robert greenhouse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:27:56 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom >I hate to be obtuse, but could you explain that one for >me? You mean you've never seen a film, or heard a piece of music, or been to a theatre performance, or seen a view, which has made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up? (It's what Richard Baker refers to as the "tingle factor".) Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com "Success can be measured by only one thing: the hairs on the back of your neck." -- Twyla Tharp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:55:55 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: h a u s Subject: International Distribution for your CD or Record. Comments: To: CFNY , Bob Gajarsky , Lubo Pozgay , AMO's Music Magazine , "Joe Germuska (Blink Magazine)" , "Jeff Kellem (Boston Music Zines)" , "Stephen Buckley (Capacity)" , "Christof Damian (DeRave)" , Dickson Christy , "Brendon Macaraeg (Dreampop)" , Escape from Noise , Fifth World , Front.Page@wink.io.org, Sense@wink.io.org, Camel Silverpage , Erwin van der Zande , Hype , Media Maniacs , Music World III , Nexus , Richard Payne , Spontaneous Combustion , Sonic Boom , Sound Constructors , Sound Wire , Philippe.Langlois.Techno.Import.zine@wink.io.org, Wax Techno Data Bank , "Erik Hornfeldt (z.mag@zine)" , SMITHEM@yvax.byu.edu, Chico IN , Carson Ellis Pierce , Jon & Liz , KNK , SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU, Jeff Ibsen , Claude Charnier , RITCHIE@vilas.uwex.edu, 10 Things , ARC Magazine , Axcess Magazine , Chaos Control E-Zine , Computer Music Journal , Eye , Andy Jones , Nexus 6 , Greg Clow , Street Sound Magazine , Strobe Magazine ================================================ INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION FOR YOUR CD OR RECORD ================================================ In the past year Haus Records has been assisting several independent artists in establishing proper distribution and representation in Europe. Amoung the current Artist we represent and are promoting: 1. Dave Scott (EBM) 2. Phycus (Industrial) 3. Insurgent (Industrial) 4. Sucking Chest Wound (Electro Hiphop Groove) 5. Digital White Noise (EBM) 6. Hal 9000 (Techno) 7. Auracle (Techno) 8. Bahamut (Deep House) 9. Atmosphere (Deep House) 10. Weather Box (Trance, Ambient) 11. Protoplasm (Experimental) 12. Dasein (Darkwave, EBM) We are continually sending materials to our contacts in Europe, primarily in UK, Germany and Sweden. We have also attended the major international music conferences such as MIDEM (Cannes, France), MIDEM ASIA (Hong Kong) and POPKOMM (Cologne, Germany) to promote releases to distributors and other record labels. ----------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE CURRENTLY LOOKING FOR RELEASES TO DISTRIBUTE IN EUROPE!!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Finished Product: CD, Maxi CD, EPCD, 12" Vinyl, 7" Vinyl Style of Music : EBM, Techno, Trance, Dub, Jungle, Trip Hop, House If you are looking for proper distribution in Europe, please send us 3 promos of your release, along with any press related information. Please include a biography ALL SUBMISSION WILL RECEIVE A REPLY !!! If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Forward Submissions to: Cosimo Valela`, Managing Director Haus c/o Product Distribution 16007-859 Dundas Street West Toronto, ON M6J 3W2 Canada Tel: +1 416 530 0709 Fax: +1 416 530 0735 Thank you for your time Kind Regards Cosimo Valela`,haus --- h a u s Electro-Body Experience ---- Representing And Developing Ambient, Experimental And Industrial Artists. Email - haus@io.org | URL - http://www.io.org/~haus | Finger - haus@io.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:00:14 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: h a u s Subject: Results from Popkomm 95 Comments: To: CFNY , Bob Gajarsky , Lubo Pozgay , AMO's Music Magazine , "Joe Germuska (Blink Magazine)" , "Jeff Kellem (Boston Music Zines)" , "Stephen Buckley (Capacity)" , "Christof Damian (DeRave)" , Dickson Christy , "Brendon Macaraeg (Dreampop)" , Escape from Noise , Fifth World , Front.Page@wink.io.org, Sense@wink.io.org, Camel Silverpage , Erwin van der Zande , Hype , Media Maniacs , Music World III , Nexus , Richard Payne , Spontaneous Combustion , Sonic Boom , Sound Constructors , Sound Wire , Philippe.Langlois.Techno.Import.zine@wink.io.org, Wax Techno Data Bank , "Erik Hornfeldt (z.mag@zine)" , SMITHEM@yvax.byu.edu, Chico IN , Carson Ellis Pierce , Jon & Liz , KNK , SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU, Jeff Ibsen , Claude Charnier , RITCHIE@vilas.uwex.edu, 10 Things , ARC Magazine , Axcess Magazine , Chaos Control E-Zine , Computer Music Journal , Eye , Andy Jones , Nexus 6 , Greg Clow , Street Sound Magazine , Strobe Magazine ======================================= POPKOMM 95 (Cologne, Germany) - RESULTS ======================================= Haus would like to thank ALL 200 people who submitted materials for the POPKOMM 95 music convention in Cologne, Germany this past August. We would also like to extend our thanks and appreciation to all our Business Partners for making this year's POPKOMM successful. The Artist who made the selection and were represented include: 1. Digital White Noise (EBM) 2. Hal 9000 (Techno) 3. Auracle (Techno) 4. Bahamut (House) 5. Atmosphere (House) 6. Weather Box (Ambient, dance) 7. Protoplasm (Experimental) Results: -------- Hal 9000 - Has received a recording deal with Think Tank (USA) Weatherbox - Has received a distribution deal through Blitz (Sweden and Germany) Bahamut - Has received a distribution deal through Beechwood / Flute (UK) Atmosphere - Has received a distribution deal through Beechwood / Flute (UK) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- More recently, HAUS has been assisting several other artists in establishing proper distribution and representation in Europe. They include: 1. Dave Scott (EBM),(Scandinavia, Germany) 2. Phycus (Industrial),(Scandinavia) 3. Insurgent (Industrial),(Scandinavia,Germany) 4. Sucking Chest Wound (Electro HipHop Groove)(Germany) We would also like to thank these artists for giving us this opportunity ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kind Regards Cosimo Valela`,haus --- h a u s Electro-Body Experience ---- Representing And Developing Ambient, Experimental And Industrial Artists. Email - haus@io.org | URL - http://www.io.org/~haus | Finger - haus@io.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 15:14:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: emusic-l tape co >I figure the whole thing should come to an hour.-Eric Harden (Ronin) 600 synthesists each contributing 6 seconds of DAT. Mission: Six seconds to demonstrate the synthetic uses of shmoobism, sonic shark deterrents, hemiola, sound wave morphs, etc. "Sounds dangerous. I'll do it." -Alan Shepherd Tom Wolf's "The Right Stuff" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:07:17 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: TABDTP@AOL.COM Subject: tape comp & art-><-emusic Yes! This would be a wonderful endeavor (compiling a tape of emusic list members music) and most enlightening. I will definitely take part. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have been eagerly following the responses to art--><--emusic, and have been pleasantly surprised by the variety of thought - in particular the "Oblique Strategies" material. Another response that I thought was interesting and very thought provoking was the response from David Talley who originally in this thread brought up "Oblique Strategies." He talked of topographical representations (mapping) the art onto music sheets and taking points where the lines of the art would angle and by placing notes at these points, or similarly if a line continued it might represent a sustained note, etc., allow the composition to develop. I found this to be most facinating. He also mentioned drawing a direct comparison between colors and notes. Where the eye follows so does the music. If you haven't read his message dated 11/9, do so. This had me thinking that it might be fun to take a color spectrum sensing and/or measuring device and measure the color several times across a painting, then assign a specific note to represent each color frequency (stay with me , I haven't flipped out I assure you). In essence, this would permit the painting itself to play the music. Tunings could be used to assure a reasonable melodically correct output. Applying this to the great art, one could actually listen to say, Monet, or Grandma Moses for that matter. How would cubism compare musically to realism? The idea intriques me. Maybe it's already been done. Has anyone heard of this or similar efforts? Keep the thread going please...it's really wonderful, and helping me immensely. Alan M. Bookmiller tabbooks@pa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:32:14 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Grace Sullivan Subject: The Compleat Webster Comments: To: cge@vm.marist.edu, fineart@gu.edu.au, isea@sara.nl, EMusF@aol.com, msimoni@umich.edu, Music-Research@comlab.ox.ac.uk, csound@noether.ex.ac.uk, SOUND@acm.org, algo-comp@heinous.music.uiowa.edu, max@vm1.mcgill.ca, sonicart.demon.co.uk@sonicart.demon.co.uk, smt-list@husc.harvard.ed, daw-mac@netcom.com, synth-l@american.edu Comments: cc: grace@mercury.sfsu.edu __________________________PLEASE POST THE FOLLOWING ANNOUNCEMENT: CALL FOR PROPOSALS THE COMPLEAT WEBSTER: A Guide to Emerging Genres in World Wide Web Phrases like "web browsing" and "surfing the net" suggest that World Wide Web is a relatively superficial medium. But is this network intrinsically shallow, or has no one yet developed its dramatic potential? The task of involving visitors in an intense emotional way in a Web site seems almost impossible: how do you deal with guests who manifest themselves only as an anonymous and invisible series of "hits?" How can you provoke an aesthetically strong experience on a Web site? THE COMPLEAT WEBSTER, a special project of Leonardo Digital Reviews, will focus on attempts to engage WWW visitors by exploiting the Web's unique features, such as visitor-to-visitor interactivity, online forms and client-pull constructs. We are looking for short contributions, reviews or comments from visitors who have found themselves caught in the Web. Statements of purpose from WWW site authors are also welcome. We are interested in discussions of how Web sites can become enthralling. The project will be made visible through special issues of _Leonardo Digital Reviews,_ which is published electronically in the _Leonardo Electronic Almanac_ (distributed by the MIT Press) and posted on the _Leonardo WWW site._ Selections will be published in the print journals _Leonardo_ and _Leonardo Music Journal._ Please email your contributions and suggested sites to by 31 DECEMBER 1995. For more information contact Kevin Murray: http://werple.mira.net.au/~kmurray ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:07:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom You do not know whi.o is or was James Warring? More later. Think about hiome and Judson street church. By the bye, I like TWALA just thought the quote was a bit long in the toooooooth. Bye Rpc ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 20:20:36 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom How about any of following fromJames Waring: Dance is done and then seen Dancing doesn't express; t it does. Style is a result , and not interesting. The dancers are the dance. I like it when the dancers put their feet on the floor. The flor is the most useful device for dancers. BYE RPC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:59:57 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: h a u s Subject: Looking for submissions for MIDEM 95 Comments: To: CFNY , Bob Gajarsky , Lubo Pozgay , AMO's Music Magazine , "Joe Germuska (Blink Magazine)" , "Jeff Kellem (Boston Music Zines)" , "Stephen Buckley (Capacity)" , "Christof Damian (DeRave)" , Dickson Christy , "Brendon Macaraeg (Dreampop)" , Escape from Noise , Fifth World , Front.Page@wink.io.org, Sense@wink.io.org, Camel Silverpage , Erwin van der Zande , Hype , Media Maniacs , Music World III , Nexus , Richard Payne , Spontaneous Combustion , Sonic Boom , Sound Constructors , Sound Wire , Philippe.Langlois.Techno.Import.zine@wink.io.org, Wax Techno Data Bank , "Erik Hornfeldt (z.mag@zine)" , SMITHEM@yvax.byu.edu, Chico IN , Carson Ellis Pierce , Jon & Liz , KNK , SYNTH-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU, Jeff Ibsen , Claude Charnier , RITCHIE@vilas.uwex.edu, 10 Things , ARC Magazine , Axcess Magazine , Chaos Control E-Zine , Computer Music Journal , Eye , Andy Jones , Nexus 6 , Greg Clow , Street Sound Magazine , Strobe Magazine =================================================== LOOKING FOR SUBMISSIONS - MIDEM 95 (Cannes, France) =================================================== This year Haus will attending MIDEM 96 in Cannes, France. MIDEM is the largest music industry conference of its kind. Last year, Haus had a representative attend, which resulted in a licensing and distribution deal for DASEIN with Big Bang Music (Belgium). With our success at last year's conference, we are looking forward to attending MIDEM this year (End of January). In cooperation with Big Bang Music (Belgium) and Flute Worldwide (UK), Haus will be meeting with several record companies and distributors. -----------------> WE ARE LOOKING FOR SUBMISSIONS <---------------- ------> EBM, Techno, Trance, Dub, Jungle, House, Trip Hop <------ -----------> DEADLINE IS DECEMBER 31, 1995 <----------- THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO COST, NO APPLICATION FEE or any of that BULLSHIT. All submissions will be listened to. Those selected, will be notified. We prefer to receive Finished Product (Record or CD), however demo tapes will also receive serious consideration. If selected you will be required to supply 35 promotional copies of your release, along with written material. We will provide all the necessary details. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Forward Submissions to: Cosimo Valela`, Managing Director Haus c/o MIDEM 95 16007-859 Dundas Street West Toronto, ON M6J 3W2 Canada Tel: +1 416 530 0709 Fax: +1 416 530 0735 Thank you for your time Kind Regards Cosimo Valela`,haus --- h a u s Electro-Body Experience ---- Representing And Developing Ambient, Experimental And Industrial Artists. Email - haus@io.org | URL - http://www.io.org/~haus | Finger - haus@io.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 21:01:28 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: sysop@DJSA.COM Organization: Internet Who's Who Guide Subject: Free Windows 95 Comm Program! If you would like a Windows 95 Communications program in multimedia then call 305-749-6458 and download worldgrp.exe. This file is available for those who like to use WIN95 to call online services that do not have their own software. You can do alot of your online work, offline. Mail, File Libraries can all be reviewed while you are not connected to the BBS. It saves you time and money and allows you graphics and sound to boot. Call today for your free program. ========================= !!! Automated Notice !!! ======================= E-mail replies to this user should have the following on the first line of message text: TO: Mailone ========================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 15:43:38 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Re: tape comp & art-><-emusic Hi Alan and others... Alan asked... >This had me thinking that it might be fun to take a color spectrum sensing >and/or measuring device and measure the color several times across a >painting, then assign a specific note to represent each color frequency (stay >with me , I haven't flipped out I assure you). In essence, this would permit >the painting itself to play the music. [...] >Has anyone heard of this or similar efforts? Yes. Take a look at the following article if you can find it: Kershaw, Shane (1995) "Image Data Sonification" in Proceedings of the ACMA 1995 Conference. Melbourne, Australia: Australian Computer Music Association. >From the abstract: This paper describes a process for the creation of visual images and musical/ sonic creations od of scanned image data files of these visual images stored as TIFF (tagged image file format). Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au2zL "q.` ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 12:18:18 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: emusic-l tape compilation, take 3 >Announcing the Third Emusic-L Compilation Tape. As I said when the previous tape project was announced a year or two ago, I absolutely detest cassette tape. If there's a CD run I'll contribute. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 10:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: NEC_CEELY@FLO.ORG Subject: Re: emusic-l tape compilation, take 3 No SYNTH BEST! RPC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 14:55:17 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Sean Wolfe Subject: Spindle Media >To: Spindle Mailing List >From: Spindle303@lnd.com (Sean Wolfe) >Subject: Spindle Media >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > > Spindle Productions, with the help of many great fans and supportive people, is >slowly becoming an new independent Media Production. With even more support, it will be >able to grow into a formidable Media Production and Distribution company. Here is what >Spindle Productions has to offer now: > > >Spindle Production - Specializes in 4-Track and Digital Recording Production > for demos and small recording projects and remixing. > >Spindle Records - an independent Record Label and Distribution > >Spindle Video - Video and Multimedia presentation which includes live > Video Mixing > >the AKIRA project - Resident recording artist, producing original Electronic > Music. > >Toybox - an up and coming band that experiments in improvised > moodscapes, and soundtracks. > >Spindle Productions would now like to introduce a new service: Spindle Media. A project >that will be involved in printed material. This will be a publication that will be an outlet for >creative people to publish their printed material. It will also provide news and articles about >Spindle Productions and independent and underground music and Pop Culture. The >magazine will be entirely compiled of work submitted by readers and corespondents. Works >including: Stories, Articles, Essays, Poems, Screenplays, Photography, Artwork, Comics, >and Sheet music. Any topic and genre is accepted, but we will be focusing more on Topics >such as :Electronic music (Trance, Ambient, Rave, Industrial, Experimental, Techno, >Dance), Industrial Music, recording (tips and techniques, and products), the Internet, >Computers, Pop Culture (Movies, Comic Books, etc....), and whatever lurks in the Dark >Recesses you mind. The overall look of the magazine will be a Dark, Gothic, Cyberpunk >feel. Remember, we will accept anything, it doesn't have to fall in any of the categories >listed above, as long as it's good material WE WILL PRINT IT!!! If we get enough >submissions and support, we will keep making issues. So all we ask is for your support and >your creativity. > >If you would like to submit any material please send any copies (originals will only be >returned if enclosed with SASE or postage if any special packaging and handling is required) >of written material, artwork, and photographs to: > Spindle Productions > 375 Birchwood Dr. > Antioch, IL 60002 > >Digital Formats can also be E-Mailed to the following address: Spindle303@lnd.com > Please use the following formats: > Written material: Word, MS Works, Wordperfect, Write, Ami Pro, or plain > DOS text > Digital Images: GIF 87a/89a (*.gif) > JPEG (*.jpg) > Windows OS/2 (*.bmp,*.dib) > TARGA (*.tga) > PCX (*.PCX) > PPM (*.ppm, *.pgm, *.pbm) > TIFF (*.tif) > >Special formats are available on request. >Files can also be sent by Mail to the address above on 3.5" diskettes and may be compresses >in a standard ZIP file. > >Please also include your name, address, Telephone number(we may need to contact you), >and E-Mail address (if you have one). Include any other information as to where you can be >contacted. Also include if there are any special handling instructions. > >Unfortunately, we cannot accept everything. We will try our best to print your work. But >we can only print so many per issue, and we try to judge what goes into each issue based on >material and resources. But with your support we are able to grow, and the bigger we are >the more we can publish, and the more we can distribute. > >I really look forward to see anything that you may submit. > >Sean Wolfle >Founder of Spindle Productions > > >If you would like any additional Information on anything mentioned in this letter, or would >like to be on our electronic mailing list please send your Name, Address (Postal, or E-Mail), >and a short message of what you would like information about to the following addresses: > >Spindle Productions >375 Birchwood Dr. >Antioch, IL 60002 > >E-Mail:Spindle303@lnd.com > | __ Give Anything... \ / Expect Nothing... (@) Spindle Productions Recieve Everything... _/ \ | +-------------------+ |Sean Wolfe | |Spindle303@lnd.com | +-------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 23:40:44 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom >You do not know whi.o is or was James Warring? >More later. Think about hiome and Judson street church. This means nothing to me... Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:26:00 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Trish O'neil Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA * 503-655-3927 Subject: Re: emusic-l tape compila N>As I said when the previous tape project was announced a year or two N>ago, I absolutely detest cassette tape. If there's a CD run I'll N>contribute. Cassette is fine with me...... 11/11/95 3:26PM trish.o'neil@bbs.locally.com Paul's Law: You can't fall off the floor.CMPQwk1.42-R2 313 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 22:25:00 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Trish O'neil Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA * 503-655-3927 Subject: Re: emusic-l tape compila JETMAN@TUNANET.COM on 11-09-95 J>ONLY THE PROPOSAL. PLEASE RESPOND WITH COMMENTS ONLY AT THIS J>TIME, SO THAT I CAN GAUGE THE DESIRABILITY/REASONABLNESS OF THE J>PROJECT. I think my motley crew might even be ready to contribute this time around. Go for it. 11/11/95 3:25PM trish.o'neil@bbs.locally.com File not found... Using sandpaper instead.CMPQwk1.42-R2 313 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 10:51:55 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: John Zorn's game pieces In-Reply-To: from "Ann Midori Yoshikawa" at Nov 9, 95 03:19:29 pm Ann Midori Yoshikawa writes-- >> >Speaking of people who compose using index cards, I am a grad student at >UC Santa Cruz and I am working on a paper for a 20th century performance >practice class on the game pieces of John Zorn. Has anyone seen or heard >any performances of his game pieces (Cobra, Xu Feng, et al) that have not >been under Zorn's supervision? I am aware that an ensemble in LA >performed "Cobra" without consulting John Zorn and Zorn didn't even >recognize the piece when they sent him a tape. However, I don't know the >name of that ensemble. I would appreciate any responses because I have >access to the double CD recording by hat art and a few recordings done by >student ensembles at UCSC and Mills College under the supervision of my >teacher, Willie Winant, who played "Cobra" with John Zorn. Well, I've been IN an ensemble that performed "Cobra" just in the past year or so... we were led by someone who actually had met Zorn and gotten his permission to run the piece without him being present. He had an ensemble of eight players, with instrumentation ranging from drums to synths to recorder to log drum to bassoon to treated guitar, and taught the people who had never done "Cobra" before how to do it. We rehearsed for about two months, then went onstage for a benefit concert and did several run-throughs for a bemused and really drunk audience of local yokels. They didn't kill us, which was a bit of a victory, but the acoustics were poor, and a last-minute logistical shift made us go onstage with two drummers... it was sort of like Lynyrd Synyrd doing Zorn. :-p I have no idea what Zorn would expect of a group using his rules and doing things 'not his way'....I mean, I always thought of the idea of "Cobra" as being a method rather than a piece. But his reactions to other musicians doing it seem to contradict that, to some extent; it is as if the piece is now an actual piece of music that he can and should control somehow. Maybe his NYC ensemble has gotten too used to playing with one another and it's gotten in a rut. He may have hated what we did, but we sure had fun.... mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | = atomic@netcom.com = | WORDS OF WISDOM FROM ATOMIC CITY #42: cd mailorder po box 81175 | Kurt Geisel, on platform loyalty pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | or order from our website | "I'm off the Amiga since having been given http://pd.net/atomic-city | my Microsoft brain implant....." or via infinite illusions | toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 15:06:45 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Mark Nutter, College Tech Systems Mgr" Organization: Indiana University of Pennsylvania Subject: Re: the great fractal zoom In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:27:56 +0000" >>I hate to be obtuse, but could you explain that one for >>me? >You mean you've never seen a film, or heard a piece of music, or been to a >theatre performance, or seen a view, which has made the hairs on the back >of your neck stand up? (It's what Richard Baker refers to as the "tingle >factor".) Ah, no wonder: I'm usually more conscious of this "tingle factor" showing up as goose-bumps on my arms! :) But at least now I understand the reference. Thanks! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Nutter Internet: manutter@grove.iup.edu College Technology Systems Manager BITNET: MANUTTER@IUP ACS/College of Fine Arts WWW: http://www.iup.edu/~manutter/ Indiana University of Pennsylvania G-4 Stright Hall, IUP Indiana, PA 15705 "My horoscope says today is a bad day to be superstitious." ============================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 17:47:04 -0600 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "i.s.o.r. magazine!" Subject: Tones on Tail / Sisterhood (gear used) In-Reply-To: <199511121851.KAA06651@netcom23.netcom.com> has anyone here ever read any interviews w/ say, Daniel Ash or Andrew Eldritch that mention gear used. if you have please email me personally. ~love eric~ i skipp most mesages (gotta get those physics number run) but i thought i'd mention that 'Com Four' from new york is distributing a CD by 'Elliott Sharp' and i think i saw his name next to another name i just saw in the list a couple messages back. see? com four fax = 718-599-1052. ps - tell them the guy from edwardsville, il told you about them. pps -is there a k250 listserv? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:19:25 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Question about SYSEX Hi, Just recently acquired my 2nd sound module (E-MU Classic Keys), which I am very pleased with (thankyou Jonathan), and which compliments my Proteus FX very nicely. Question: I've been storing all the master & effects settings for the Proteus as a sysex dump onto my hard drive (I've got a universal librarian of some sort that came with my sequencer). Now I've got 2 sound modules to set up. I've already taken note of the fact that when I try to load one module with a sysex dump, neither module has the ability to differentiate as to which module the dump was intended for. They both recieve the dumps equally. Aside from turning them off alternatively as I load up the other, is there something I can do. (I don't own a patch bay). Sure'd appreciate your help. -Gus PS I've got a sneaky suspicion you guys are gonna tell me that I need a patch bay. If I'm right, recommendations would also be appreciated. Thanks... Gus Alden ~~~~~~~~~~~~ aldenoob@biddeford.com "There's a cold fog loomin'...............'neath the cold moonlight" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 23:08:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Hodgson Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? >>Progressive/reactionary is an unfortunate dimension to lay on art. >the progressive side of contemporary musical art will see >advancement, not in harmony, but in timbre. This is the age >of tone color to the same extent that the earlier centuries >developed harmony. > >More and more, it's a surprise voicing I notice more than the >harmony, melody, and rhythm of a piece. Progressives, >Brian Eno i.e., have been given the opportunity to morph >saxes with electric guitars, trumpets with car horns, saw waves >with motorcycle engines. > >There is more to progress in music than just harmony. >Some will react to progress and return to what sounds >good to their ears. Hence, in light of Josquin De Pres (sp?) >JS Bach might be viewed as reactionary. > >jollyroger@iquest.net I was reacting to the Victorian ideal of Progress as the improvement of something primarily because it has been changed to comply more with one's current cultural values, the "ethnocentric" viewpoint that I hope is anathema to most artists. From having hot tea at 4 o'clock on the African savanna to covering the suggestive chair and table legs in the house, such thinking has led to a lot of silliness at best and a lot of misery, at nowhere near its worst. Owning a K2500, or anything comparably complex or technical, is not a necessary condition for artistry, at any time or in any location. Obviously it's not a sufficient condition, either. Don't we think of great art as transcending time and place? How can reliance on a technical method which will be obsolete before you have made all the payments on your favorite box, be expected to generate great art? I rant. Music clearly develops, but calling that development "progress" guarantees misperception of the art of any period or place. Are people who buy CD's of Gregorian chant being "regressive" or "reactionary," or rather, finding something of value in 800-year-old music that relates very directly, and probably in a way new to them, here and now? I choose the latter. Perhaps this IS "the age of tone color." But Billy Strayhorn and Duke Ellington developed harmony right in our very own century, and rhythm has been developed in new ways in India, Brazil, and the U.S. inner-city in the last half of this century. "You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear" (whatever happened to Arrow and Oblio?). There is a universe of parameters to explore, at any time and any place. We are immensely lucky to be able to purchase machines which allow us to explore most of the established dimensions or parameters on middle-class budgets, and I'm NOT putting that down--I expect a lot will ultimately come of it. We are accustomed to electronic timbres enriching motion picture scores, used in films because of their sound and not to cut the budget. But just as Bach didn't need a to compose the Mass in B minor, neither will enable Ralph Schmedley's concepts to be enjoyed 300 years from now (no offense, Ralph, if you're out there--I'm not referring to you personally). And a final note--don't the timbres you discover often inspire harmonies, rhythms, and maybe even melodies? All of the dimensions ultimately relate to each other. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:42:18 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: clive@PELICAN.DBE.CSIRO.AU Subject: Re: Question about SYSEX Gus wrote-- > >Now I've got 2 sound modules to set up. I've already taken note of the fact >that when I try to load one module with a sysex dump, neither module has >the ability to differentiate as to which module the dump was intended for. >They both recieve the dumps equally. Aside from turning them off >alternatively as I load up the other, is there something I can do. (I don't >own a patch bay). > >Sure'd appreciate your help. > Hi Gus Don't know about your specfic problem, but it should be possible to set module 1 up to receive system information on channel 1 (say) and module 2 to receive system info on channel 2. Likewise you should be able to tell your librarian which channel to transmit on. So setting the libriarian's channel to 1 will result in sysex data being received only by module 1. Ditto for channel 2. These settings tend to default to channel 1, so if you don't alter them everything will talk to everything else, babel-like. Regards Clive Clive McFarland CSIRO Australia clive@pelican.dbe.csiro.au ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:01:07 +0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Chong Poh Ng Subject: Re: Question about SYSEX In-Reply-To: <199511130316.WAA23792@river.biddeford.com> On Sun, 12 Nov 1995, Gus Alden wrote: >Hi, > >Just recently acquired my 2nd sound module (E-MU Classic Keys), which I am >very pleased with (thankyou Jonathan), and which compliments my Proteus FX >very nicely. > >Question: > >I've been storing all the master & effects settings for the Proteus as a >sysex dump onto my hard drive (I've got a universal librarian of some sort >that came with my sequencer). > >Now I've got 2 sound modules to set up. I've already taken note of the fact >that when I try to load one module with a sysex dump, neither module has >the ability to differentiate as to which module the dump was intended for. >They both recieve the dumps equally. Aside from turning them off >alternatively as I load up the other, is there something I can do. (I don't >own a patch bay). > >Sure'd appreciate your help. > >-Gus > >PS I've got a sneaky suspicion you guys are gonna tell me that I need a >patch bay. If I'm right, recommendations would also be appreciated. > >Thanks... > > > > Gus Alden ~~~~~~~~~~~~ aldenoob@biddeford.com > "There's a cold fog loomin'...............'neath the cold moonlight" > =============================================================== No you do not need a patchbay to do SysEx dumps so that only the intended module receives it. Just set the Global Channel of both machines to be different (some modules has a parameter that says something like this :"Receive/send SysEx on Channel...". SysEx data contains channel information, so when you send and receive, the information is also transmitted. Hope this helps. Ng Chong Poh - Para-DI (S) Pte. Ltd. paradi@singnet.com.sg Country Code : 65 (No area code) Tel : 538-6261 Fax : 538-5009 Mobile : 9-722-1801 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 00:27:40 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Sean Wolfe Subject: Re: Question about SYSEX >very pleased with (thankyou Jonathan), and which compliments my Proteus FX >very nicely. I am also a proud owner of a Proteus FX. I wouldn't give this synth up for anything in the world..... It just has a sound that is so clean and not so plastic sounding as some of the other synths seem (such as the Korgs). And I think it produces the best piano sound out of many of the other synths in its class. >I've been storing all the master & effects settings for the Proteus as a >sysex dump onto my hard drive (I've got a universal librarian of some sort >that came with my sequencer). > >Now I've got 2 sound modules to set up. I've already taken note of the fact >that when I try to load one module with a sysex dump, neither module has >the ability to differentiate as to which module the dump was intended for. >They both recieve the dumps equally. Aside from turning them off >alternatively as I load up the other, is there something I can do. (I don't >own a patch bay). >From what I understand.... In your master settings on the Proteus FX.... there is a screen called MIDI MODE.... this is where you can select if you want the Proteus to run in OMNI, POLY, MULTI, or MONO mode.... On that screen there is a parameter labeled ID.... this number tells an external programing device (such as a midi SYSEX dump from your hard drive) the difference between different proteus devices.... And i believe that the Proteus and the Vintage Keys work on the same kind unit, just different sounds.... check and make sure that the ID number on both units are not the same.... this should solve your problem... the only thing though.. is that you would have to change all you sysex dumps.... Each Proteus SYSEX dump contains the device ID number.... so You will either have to create new dumps with the correct ID number, or just edit them from a sysex editor. the first four Bytes will be: F0 18 04 dd where dd= the device ID number..... just edit that byte to the number that your Proteus will be set at.... same goes for the Vintage Keys.... I hope this helps out.... Let me know if it work or if it doesn't..... | __ Give Anything... \ / Expect Nothing... (@) Spindle Productions Recieve Everything... _/ \ | +-------------------+ |Sean Wolfe | |Spindle303@lnd.com | +-------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 00:31:37 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Sean Wolfe Subject: FB-01 programmer.... Does... anyone know where I can get a programmer for a Yamaha FB-01? Or if there is a DOS or Windows programmer outt there? If so, is there an FTP site where I can find one? If anyone has clue.... You words would greatly be appreaciated... thanks | __ Give Anything... \ / Expect Nothing... (@) Spindle Productions Recieve Everything... _/ \ | +-------------------+ |Sean Wolfe | |Spindle303@lnd.com | +-------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 22:35:10 +0000 Reply-To: qsite@aimnet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: John Silveria II Organization: Q. Subject: Re: FB01 Programmer > Does... anyone know where I can get a programmer for a Yamaha FB-01? Or if > there is a DOS or Windows programmer outt there? If so, is there an FTP > site where I can find one? You can find a DOS FB01 editor/librarian at ftp.ucsd.edu I believe the directory structure is midi/editor/fb01 the file is fmpaka.zip (or exe) It's not hard to find the directory structure is easily laid out. Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------- John Silveria II songwriter/keyboardist/producer qsite@aimnet.com http://users.aimnet.com/~qsite ----------- Now available our first ep Demo ------------ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:09:49 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Joseph R. D'Ambrosi" Subject: Metro Info Hey Joe G. OSC just came out with the new version, Metro 3 for the Mac. You can call OSC at 800-343 DECK for info. The suggested retail is $275. After you check out the info, give me a hollar, I have good friends who could probably get you a deal on the software. Have fun, Joe D. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:55:42 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Joe McMahon Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! In-Reply-To: <2002124799.28623774@tunanet.com> from "jetman" at Nov 10, 95 02:19:46 am > I have heard of topographical representations onto music sheets - i.e. > drawn an out-line of the thing, and super-impose it over a staff - > where there is an obvious turn or angle could be taken as points to put > notes... or a long line would be a sustained note, etc. I had forgotten to mention this before - I;ve seen the "score" for a Cage piece which consists of a number of transparencies with lines and circles drawn on them, and a number of pages with constellations of dots on them. To perform the piece, you choose a transparency and a page, layer them, and the resulting graphic is the first page of the score, and so on. It is up to you to determine how to map the score to music. I believe that there were more rules and guidelines, but at the place I was at the time, it simply confused me and I didn't follow it up properly. --- Joe M. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 11:14:05 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Wired4Soun@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! What a lovely project! Just as the artist would choose to group his works in separate rooms, possibly with different lighting, you can accomodate with your own special "atmospheric" support. I would look at positioning my music into several general ideas that go with groups of the art. And then try to consider making my music gravitate from one idea to the next. That way you can have some integrity to each music idea while still serving the purpose of supporting (submitting to) the artwork. Tom Jordan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 09:47:48 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? In-Reply-To: <199511130408.XAA34612@acs-mail.bu.edu> from "Mark Hodgson" at Nov 12, 95 11:08:49 pm Mark Hodgson writes-- > > Owning a K2500, or >anything comparably complex or technical, is not a necessary condition >for artistry, at any time or in any location. Obviously it's not a >sufficient condition, either. While it's dangerous to get into value judgements, my current frustration with my studio as a (non-)music-making system leads me to believe that there may well be a negative correlation here. Complexity leads not to artistry but to that neurotic attention to tiny detail that is the hobgoblin of small minds. Timelessness of idea and beauty and how they relate to music created in the era of recording, where a particular sound can be captured forever, are issues we haven't yet begun to explore; crawling around moving patchcords and fighting with device drivers makes that struggle all the more difficult to grapple with, don't you think? >(whatever happened to Arrow and Oblio?). Oblio, now being the only person left in his land with a pointed head, has been institutionalized for paranoid schizophrenia; he claims that the Pointed Man is whispering bad things in his ear. Arrow lived to a ripe old age and was finally put to sleep after a crippling stroke. >But just as Bach didn't need a to >compose the Mass in B minor, neither will wonderbox> enable Ralph Schmedley's concepts to be enjoyed 300 years from >now (no offense, Ralph, if you're out there--I'm not referring to you >personally). The argument of many current artists, including the lamentedly lost Jeff Harrington, is that it is impossible for us to create art that will survive, because the machines that create it will not. If you let that stop you from creating, either play the piano or give up. :) mike -- mike metlay * atomic city | = atomic@netcom.com = | WORDS OF WISDOM FROM ATOMIC CITY #42: cd mailorder po box 81175 | Kurt Geisel, on platform loyalty pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | or order from our website | "I'm off the Amiga since having been given http://pd.net/atomic-city | my Microsoft brain implant....." or via infinite illusions | toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 15:37:44 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Harold C Cowherd Subject: emusic-l tape I am interested in the emusic compilation project if it is on CD. Harold C ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 10:29:12 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Spamboy Subject: Quality of Sounds I can't help but notice that people on this list have very strong views on the quality of sounds on certain synths. But no one seems to explain why they think certain synths have stupid sounds. Just for fun, could some (or all) of you quantify what good synth sounds consist of? I know it's all a matter of opinion, and you can't exactly quantify aesthetic value, but I'd still like to hear what you gurus have to say. Randy Budnikas * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Randy@isaac.biola.edu 8182 Glengarry Green *SPACE MONKEY ENTERPRISES * 714-522-BITE Buena Park, CA 90621 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * fax/modem:714-522-6323 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 13:17:01 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "David J. Talley" Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! In-Reply-To: <199511131455.JAA29009@clark.net> On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Joe McMahon wrote: > I had forgotten to mention this before - I've seen the "score" for a Cage > piece which consists of a number of transparencies with lines and circles > drawn on them, and a number of pages with constellations of dots on them. > To perform the piece, you choose a transparency and a page, layer them, and > the resulting graphic is the first page of the score, and so on. It is up > to you to determine how to map the score to music. I believe that there > were more rules and guidelines, but at the place I was at the time, it > simply confused me and I didn't follow it up properly. I believe I've tried that approach too, and with similarly confused results! Every time I try conceptual/visual "parallel" representations, it usually sounds (or reads) pretty ugly. Usually, at that point, I put the meoldy in the bass, slow it down considerably, and hold the minor third or fifth in the melody and let the bass-lines do the work. It is a fascinating exercise to go through - letting something other than creativity lead you through a creative process. (I'm digging this discussion, Joe - et al!) Any other wild processes in composition out there? -- Boldric ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 16:37:35 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Gus Alden Subject: Re: Question about SYSEX In response to my enquiry as to how to send sysex to 2 differant E-MU sound modules, Sean Wolfe said: >>From what I understand.... In your master settings on the Proteus FX.... >there is a screen called MIDI MODE.... this is where you can select if you >want the Proteus to run in OMNI, POLY, MULTI, or MONO mode.... On that >screen there is a parameter labeled ID.... this number tells an external >programing device (such as a midi SYSEX dump from your hard drive) the >difference between different proteus devices.... And i believe that the >Proteus and the Vintage Keys work on the same kind unit, just different >sounds.... check and make sure that the ID number on both units are not the >same.... this should solve your problem... the only thing though.. is that >you would have to change all you sysex dumps.... Each Proteus SYSEX dump >contains the device ID number.... so You will either have to create new >dumps with the correct ID number, or just edit them from a sysex editor. >the first four Bytes will be: F0 18 04 dd where dd= the device ID >number..... just edit that byte to the number that your Proteus will be set >at.... same goes for the Vintage Keys.... > > >I hope this helps out.... Let me know if it work or if it doesn't..... Right on the money Sean. Thankyou very much. It works! I would never have figured this out from the manual. ...and yes, the Proteus FX is one lean mean machine.... Thanks to everybody for their advice on this matter. -Gus Gus Alden ~~~~~~~~~~~~ aldenoob@biddeford.com "There's a cold fog loomin'...............'neath the cold moonlight" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:15:14 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark W Young Subject: Pitch-bend sensitivity Hi, I've been trying to alter the pitch-bend sensitivity on a Boss DS-330 through midi using RPN (control change 100 and 101) without success. What about data entry control changes? Any advice? Thanks in advance. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:34:24 GMT Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Bjorn A. Lynne" Subject: Contributions to EMusic-L tape/CD Sorry if this has been discussed before but I have just recently joined the list. I see some talk about an EMusic-L compilation tape/CD... I would like to contribute music for such a project. Where, what, who, when, how, etc.? Bjorn Lynne - Music and Audio, Team17 Software - http://www.team17.com/~bjorn - ProgNetik Magazine, home of ProgRock/ArtRock/SymphoRock - http://www.team17.com/~bjorn/prog ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 09:02:10 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! >On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Joe McMahon wrote: > >> I had forgotten to mention this before - I;ve seen the "score" for a Cage >> piece which consists of a number of transparencies with lines and circles >> drawn on them, and a number of pages with constellations of dots on them. >> To perform the piece, you choose a transparency and a page, layer them, and >> the resulting graphic is the first page of the score, and so on. It is up >> to you to determine how to map the score to music. I believe that there >> were more rules and guidelines, but at the place I was at the time, it >> simply confused me and I didn't follow it up properly. > >I believe I've tried that approach too, and with similarly confused results! >Every time I try conceptual/visual "parallel" representations, it usually >sounds (or reads) pretty ugly. Usually, at that point, I put the meoldy >in the bass, slow it down considerably, and hold the minor third or fifth >in the melody and let the bass-lines do the work. It is a fascinating >exercise to go through - letting something other than creativity lead you >through a creative process. (I'm digging this discussion, Joe - et al!) The reason Cage could do this was that he honestly didn't care about what the end result would be. This was a conscious part of his philosophy, not to impose his will on to his chance procedures. If you, on the other hand, prefer to hear something that sounds more like traditional melodic/harmonic structures, you have to do something to skew the results in that direction. For instance after plotting your dots randomly on the staff paper you could apply "musica ficta" at will, (translation: you could put sharps or flats on certain notes in order to make the music sound more like how you want it to sound. pardon the musicological terminology) In the case of the "Heartbeats" album that someone mentioned earlier (I heard that spot on Morning Edition also), what they did was measure the small fluctuations in a person's heartbeat and map the data onto those notes corresponding to the white keys of the piano. These notes became the melody line, and then the composer invented the rhythm and put standard accompaniment figures underneath, and presto, it turns out that the human heartbeat sounds like spacey new age piano music. All the music I heard on this radio report was either in A minor, or F lydian (mostly aeolian A minor), in other words they used the white keys of the piano exclusively. Now if they had mapped the data onto a chromatic scale, or microtonal scale, they would have had music that sounded radically different, and the NPR reporter would have undoubtedly reported that the human heart is intrinsically neurotic, based on the music that it produced. They could have harmonized the melody notes with 12-tone rows. (and you can accompany any melody with tone rows as long as you see to it that all the other chromatic pitches are squeezed into the accompaniment before the next note repetition in the melody occurs). The point is you can use any kind of random process or non-musical data to generate music, but the sound of the end product is going to be determined mostly by the method you use to convert the data into music. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Mark G. Simon mgs2@cornell.edu \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:13:21 CST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: harry haecker Subject: Re: tape comp & art-><-emusic >This had me thinking that it might be fun to take a color spectrum sensing >and/or measuring device and measure the color several times across a >painting, then assign a specific note to represent each color frequency >(stay with me , I haven't flipped out I assure you). In essence, this would >permit the painting itself to play the music. Tunings could be used to >assure a reasonable melodically correct output. Applying this to the great >art, one could actually listen to say, Monet, or Grandma Moses for that >matter. How would cubism compare musically to realism? The idea intrigues >me. Maybe it's already been done. Has anyone heard of this or similar >efforts? Actually, yes. About 5 years ago a program for DOS (not Windows) came out that allowed one to do just that. Each hue and intensity could be programmed to play up to three notes on any MIDI channel. There was a lot of tweaking that had to be done, both within the program and within the synth. The picture could be made to play by either pointing the mouse or using the program's automatically moving (linear or random) cursor box. Of course, the settings really determined what came out: a Monet *could* be made to sound like Grandma Moses; cubism could sound like realism. I just used it to make starting points for my own pieces, much like the fractal programs out there. I later deleted it from my hard drive, and I don't even remember the name of the program! Overall, I wasn't too impressed with this program. I like the Oblique Strategy deck combined with a double espresso better for inducing inspiration. If you could write one, I'd certainly volunteer to beta test it! later, /hfph Harry Haecker (haeckerh@nwrc.gov) http://ucs.usl.edu/~hfh2616 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 14:05:12 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Timothy Kelly Subject: Re: Quality of Sounds Hi All, I tend to like certain sounds just because my ears like them. When friends come over and we all mess with a group of new sounds, everyone likes different ones. I also like sounds because they are easy to use with my controllers. When I'm humming with MidiVox in microtonal mode, I don't want every patch to sound like I'm using a Theremin. Some modules like the Morpheus just sound a lot better right out of the box with nonchromatic stuff. Basicly all the modules I own, each has its own basic sonic character. Same for the presets on them. With enough sounds in my sound library, I can instantly go to those that will fit the current project. I organize them by funny, orchestra, light, heavy, scary, dreamy, cold, warm, expressive, sharp, quick, padding, etc, anything that makes sense to me. Its an exciting time for sound uses and creators. Happy Sounds. Timothy Kelly MidiVox -- MidiVox-Worlds 1st Voice to Midi Converter. Real Time. No Delays. Hum a Bass, Croon a Sax, Scat a Horn, Scream a Guitar, Rap some Drums, Sing a Cello. Become a Human Sequencer, Human Vocoder, Human Breath Controller. AES "Best in Show." EM "Editors Choice." " MidiVox Roars." Keyboard. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 23:21:36 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Sean Wolfe Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! >On Mon, 13 Nov 1995, Joe McMahon wrote: >I believe I've tried that approach too, and with similarly confused results! >Every time I try conceptual/visual "parallel" representations, it usually >sounds (or reads) pretty ugly. Usually, at that point, I put the meoldy >in the bass, slow it down considerably, and hold the minor third or fifth >in the melody and let the bass-lines do the work. It is a fascinating >exercise to go through - letting something other than creativity lead you >through a creative process. (I'm digging this discussion, Joe - et al!) > >Any other wild processes in composition out there? Well I'm not sure if this would pertain to this, but I've been experimenting with algorhythms in sounds... Such as Using an equation to determine the Pitch, Velocity, and start and stop times.... I've expreimeented with just simple equation macros at the moment... but have had some suprizing results.... They tend to make good background parts.... Something almost incoherent but it's tied together somehow..... I've tried some shareware programs out thre such as Soundscape, and Improvise.. but they seem to thrive more on a random function.... I try using already exsisting patterns or compositions and I run a math macro on them.... In which each note is ran through the equation and out at the other end pops up a completely different note, but within the context of the equation.... Most of the times it's almost like an offset pattern slightly skewed from the original.... Has anyone else in this news group tried using math functions to create compositions? Please let me know your results.... | __ Give Anything... \ / Expect Nothing... (@) Spindle Productions Recieve Everything... _/ \ | +-------------------+ |Sean Wolfe | |Spindle303@lnd.com | +-------------------+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 19:40:38 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? >Complexity >leads not to artistry but to that neurotic attention to tiny detail >that is the hobgoblin of small minds. At the risk of being branded elitist (although a friend of mine recently defined "elitist" as "requiring talent"), I would point out a further problem which compounds this: while true artists are (presumably) able to judge their tools as instruments to facilitate their art, the "democratisation" of the musical noisebox market ("Hello Music"? How about "Goodbye Music"?) opens it up to a less experienced potential customer base which buys features rather than usefulness, and cannot distinguish between them. >The argument of many current artists, including the lamentedly lost >Jeff Harrington, is that it is impossible for us to create art that >will survive, because the machines that create it will not. I don't mind creating art which does not survive, so long as it can be recorded. Or am I missing something here? Besides, what does it matter whether the machines last forever, if the artist cannot? Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 08:07:31 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter K Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? In-Reply-To: ; from "Nick Rothwell" at Nov 14, 95 7:40 pm ->>Complexity ->>leads not to artistry but to that neurotic attention to tiny detail ->>that is the hobgoblin of small minds. I disagree. Artistry need not be complex, but your artistry is severely limited if you do not have the ability to pull the fragile, complex, intricate features from your toolbox. -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:12:22 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: mark simon Subject: Complexity >>Complexity >>leads not to artistry but to that neurotic attention to tiny detail >>that is the hobgoblin of small minds. In my definition of artistry, one of the essential requirements is the ability to balance simplicity with complexity. Attention to minute detail is very important. It can make the difference between mediocrity and greatness. It only becomes a hobgoblin of small minds when you lose sight of the big picture. You want, on one level to evoke some basic primal reaction in the listener, and then on another level lead the listener to reflect on the nature of that primal reaction. Heinrich Schenker could, in his analyses of the classical masterpieces, reduce any of them to a descending sequence of scale steps, 3-2-1. Everything else is just elaboration, and then elaborations on elaborations, and so on through several levels until you get to the finished product. This is why I favor a compositional process that starts with the very broadest of gestures and then fills in the details. Fussing with sounds comes last in this process, but it's still an important factor. Can I say this another way? Yes: Artistry means presenting complex ideas in such a way as to make them seem simple. Mark "It's got a good beat and you can cogitate to it" Simon mgs2@cornell.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:43:26 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: obliquity my own addition to my cardset: Play only notes. p.s. actually, i also keep wanting to have a way to include my favorite quote from the artist Moebius: "ah... that's it! i can feel the great blueness taking over my head!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:51:43 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "Eric Harnden (Ronin)" Subject: comp tape ok, i've got about 10 positive responses so far. so i think it's a go. i'll get back intouch next week with details. but two people who might contribute have indicated they won't do so unless the project finishes on CD. that costs us about $3000, and i'm not sure i want to commit to that right now. are you sure you wouldn't accept DAT returns? Nick? Harold? the CD cost can obviously spread out among the contributors, but there's a limit of 74 minutes on a CD, and i still don't have a concrete idea of how long these pieces are going to be, and therefore how many different bits we squeeze onto it. thoughts? (different bits? like other than one and zero?) oh, wait... here's a thought. i can get the DAT master cut to one-shot CDs for those that want them. i think the blanks cost about $20. i'll find out what the local costs for teh actual transfer would be. i've got some friends with the requisite equipment... maybe i can get a deal. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 09:41:00 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter Mueller Subject: Re: Complexity Comments: To: mgs2@CORNELL.EDU >>Complexity >>leads not to artistry but to that neurotic attention to tiny detail >>that is the hobgoblin of small minds. In my definition of artistry, one of the essential requirements is the ability to balance simplicity with complexity. Attention to minute detail is very important. It can make the difference between mediocrity and greatness. It only becomes a hobgoblin of small minds when you lose sight of the big picture. You want, on one level to evoke some basic primal reaction in the listener, and then on another level lead the listener to reflect on the nature of that primal reaction. Don't forget that recent compositional school, the so called "New Complexity" (people like Ferneyhough, Dillon, Finnessey, et al). Man that stuff evokes primal reactions in this listener (I love the stuff). And yes, they do use assorted electronic music devices, although not many synth things. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:46:21 +0000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Nick Rothwell Subject: Re: Quality of Sounds >Just for fun, could some >(or all) of you quantify what good synth sounds consist of? Imagery. The best sounds are the ones which look good and seem to be in interesting places. Sorry, but that's how my mind works when I'm composing. Nick Rothwell CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance nick@cassiel.com four synths good two synths better ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 15:14:27 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Peter K Schoenhoff Subject: Re: Complexity In-Reply-To: <199511151512.KAA04285@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>; from "mark simon" at Nov 15, 95 10:12 am These are the graceful words of mark simon: ->In my definition of artistry, one of the essential requirements is the ->ability to balance simplicity with complexity. Attention to minute detail ->is very important. It can make the difference between mediocrity and ->greatness. It only becomes a hobgoblin of small minds when you lose sight of -> The big picture... ->Can I say this another way? Yes: Artistry means presenting complex ideas in ->such a way as to make them seem simple. VERY well spoken (written!) I couldn't have said it better. -- -Pete Schoenhoff _\|/_ pschoenh@pen.k12.va.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 15:52:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: fractal fever >Say, which of the sounds at the Mathematica address are fractal? They >all look non-fractal to me. Am I missing something? > >-- Kirk Dear Doc: I recently lucked into a $2.98 copy of Clifford A. Pickover's "Computers Pattern Chaos And Beauty." Chapter 4.3 is titled "Snowflakes From Sound: Art and Science." He describes sound waves converted to symmetrized dot-patterns. The six-fold snowflake symmetrical view of sound waves shows how no two waves look exactly alike. The usual up and down osciliscopic view of sound waves don't show how two seemingly similar waves can be very different. The algorithm for symmetrized dot-pattern is on page 43. This still doesn't answer your question, though. Richard Haddad's textbook on signal processing has an excellent chapter on converting image to sound. I was wondering if randomly generated dot-patterns could algorithmically convert to sound waves. Any thoughts? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:42:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Quality of Sounds >I can't help but notice that people on this list have very strong views on >the quality of sounds on certain synths. But no one seems to explain why >they think certain synths have stupid sounds. Just for fun, could some >(or all) of you quantify what good synth sounds consist of? I know it's >all a matter of opinion, and you can't exactly quantify aesthetic value, >but I'd still like to hear what you gurus have to say. > >Randy Budnikas * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Randy@isaac.biola.edu Repeated use of the same patch gets old, no matter the quality of its sound. According to Clifford Pickover, speech synthesist, no two "AH"s are exactly alike. I'd like to have an entire patch of just one instrument at a time. A friend recently played a $170000 Strad violin for me. A couple of hundred samples of each aspect of that Strad would create a more authentic sounding solo for a synthesized string concerto. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:46:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! >Any other wild processes in composition out there? > >-- Boldric What are you using for rhythm? Have you tried the GROOVE-UP method of composing? Philly is a rhythm town. It's in the air. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 17:53:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Complexity > You want, on one level to evoke some basic primal reaction >in the listener, and then on another level lead the listener to reflect on >the nature of that primal reaction. Awesome statement. It's like Zen & The Art Of Listening. Can you give me more detail on "New Complexity" artists... their CD titles, locations, other info? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 18:51:03 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: "L Mccoy (GD 1999)" Subject: graphic procedures About a year ago, Joji Yuasa gave a presentation on one of his pieces (I forget the title) where he used graphic procedures to carve out space in white noise, with adjustment of some filters. Quite beautiful! Joe Mc. mentioned the Variations of Cage, which has a different sort of graphic conception. Still another is his Aria. He uses an x-y coordinate plane (x is time, y is pitch) and draws shapes. The range of the y-axis is not specified. It could be 3 octaves, or a perfect 4th, etc. And there is a coordination of color with interpretation of style. I'm not sure that Cage "didn't care" about the results of performances of his music. He didn't always specify end results, but I think it is dangerous to link lack of specificity with apathy, at least with regard to his music. For some composers, however, this seems to be very much the case. Scott Mc mcco5@minerva.cis.yale.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 11:18:08 +1000 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: David Rodger Subject: Schenker Mark Simon wrote (as part of his conribution to "Complexity"): >Heinrich Schenker could, in his analyses of the classical masterpieces, >reduce any of them to a descending sequence of scale steps, 3-2-1. >Everything else is just elaboration, and then elaborations on elaborations, >and so on through several levels until you get to the finished product. And everything is ultimately V-I. Sorry to all those Schenkerian analysts out there, but ol' Heinrich was IMO severly lacking in imagination! Regards, David musdr@lure.latrobe.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:47:14 -0800 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Ann Midori Yoshikawa Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! Comments: To: roger king In-Reply-To: On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, roger king wrote: > >Any other wild processes in composition out there? > > > >-- Boldric > > What are you using for rhythm? Have you tried the GROOVE-UP > method of composing? Philly is a rhythm town. It's in the air. > What's the GROOVE-UP method of composing? Thanks, Ann Yoshikawa midori@cats.ucsc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:14:58 +0200 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Kalev Tiits Subject: Joe McMahon email i am so sorry if this broadcasts to everyone on the list (probably does...) all i would like to have is Joe McMahon's email address. Joe would you mail me please! Kalev Tiits ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 20:48:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: to Spindle303 Sean: Have you tried transcendental functions? Transcendental hyperbolic cosine offers a bottomless pit of non-linearity: z -z e + e f(z)=cosh(z)= _________________ z And in regard to Improvise: Turn the volume down on all the tracks except one. Begin with only one note value, usually in the bass. (E2 i.e.) Adjust the tempo, rest occurence, and shortest note. When you begin to like what you hear add more notes to the scale. But keep it simple if you want tonality. As you know, an octave has only twelve half-steps. For a Pink Floyd result you only need a whole step. :) Once you've saved the midi file, import it to your sequencer. Hopefully, you shut down the tracks you didn't want to keep before saving. :) Then, orchestrate in accompaniment. Why? It is preferable to use the Improvise output as inspiration material, rather than letting the CPU do the entire composing. All you need to begin is melody and rhythm and the next step: chop it into the form you want and add texture. Once you have a complete sequence file you can jam and jam and jam and jam. But with real structure and tonality. Plus, you'll have something to play live with confidence. Very important. ;/ When somebody asks what you're playing tell them it's off UMMAGUMMA. :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:22:22 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: MORGAN ELLINGTON SMITH Subject: Re: comp tape > the CD cost can obviously spread out among the contributors, but there's > a limit of 74 minutes on a CD I have CD's of eighty minutes in length. Perhaps only the company you are working with has that limit. Of course, six minutes extra isn't a whole lot, but I'm curious where you got that information. Morgan Smith ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:33:09 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Hodgson Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? Mike Metlay wrote: >. . . Timelessness of idea and beauty >and how they relate to music created in the era of recording, where a >particular sound can be captured forever, are issues we haven't yet >begun to explore; crawling around moving patchcords and fighting with >device drivers makes that struggle all the more difficult to grapple >with, don't you think? Absolutely, but it can be fun to crawl around moving patchcords, or getting device drivers to work (especially when you didn't think you could). A lot of e-musicians seem to have a mild transformation of the ham radio operator mentality, in which you devote your spare time to getting the machines to communicate to other people about what you have been doing to get the machines to communicate to other people. I present the Synth-L list and Cakewalk list as a VERY partial bibliography. Some of us got into e-music almost as much from our fascination with machines, as from our fascination with the art that just maybe can come from the machines. But of course, Mike, you're right--the point is the art. And speaking of points: > . . . Arrow lived to a ripe old age and was finally put to sleep after a crippling stroke. Say it ain't so, Oblio. > >The argument of many current artists, including the lamentedly lost >Jeff Harrington, is that it is impossible for us to create art that >will survive, because the machines that create it will not. If you >let that stop you from creating, either play the piano or give up. :) > But the piano didn't exist until about 200 years ago, and curiously has retained its basic form right up to the present--it's just a better product today than what Beethoven allegedly kept breaking. Of course, the machines which led up to the invention of the piano are probably a different story (if you visit Monticello, one of the devices on display is a shadow box for making silhouettes--you look at that and realize that all Jefferson needed to take pictures of the founding fathers would have been a photographic plate, but that wouldn't arrive for several more generations). So there was the clavier, harpsichord, etc., but (Broadbent was it?) finally put all of the technology together and created a percussive string device that could produce concert-hall loudness, and also modulate that loudness. A technological plateau was reached upon which some composers and performers alike could devote the rest of their lives. I think something like that is bound to happen in e-music, i.e., the eventual emergence of THE wonderbox, using a configuration of operating system, sound generation algorithms, communication protocol, etc. that is relatively universal and unchanging. More likely, there will be an emergence of many stable wonderboxes, as there are many stable instruments in the orchestra, often including the piano. We're not really finished with the Intel-based-software vs. Motorola-based-software battle yet; MIDI could easily be replaced with other conventions in the next 20 years. Part of the fun in e-music is being a participant, or at least an involved spectator, in this development. There are some great works for the lute and the harpsichord--you even see historic silhouettes every now and then. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:11:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: comp tape that costs us about $3000, and i'm not sure i want to commit to >that right now. are you sure you wouldn't accept DAT returns? Dear Eric: What if we made a SAMPLE CD-ROM to sell commercially, and financed the joint artistic endevour with the proceeds. Classified ads in the PATCHES section of "Electronic Musician" run $9 per line, 7 line maximum. Bold font words run 50 cents each. The earliest they could print would be the February issue with the NAMM Show. Deadline for that issue is December 1st. I think a "GEARHEAD PATCH CD" would be a big hit. And it would substantially reduce the $300 per artist cost of the compilation CD's $3000 figure. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:26:00 EST Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: roger king Subject: Re: Progress our most important product? >The argument of many current artists, including the lamentedly lost >Jeff Harrington, is that it is impossible for us to create art that >will survive, because the machines that create it will not. If you >let that stop you from creating, either play the piano or give up. :) > >mike metlay * atomic city | > = atomic@netcom.com = | >cd mailorder po box 81175 | Pittsburgh, pa 15217-0675 | >or order from our website | >http://pd.net/atomic-city | >or via infinite illusions | >toll free: 1-800-548-6724 | "BAND OF FIRE" This is why all recorded music should be scored in some way. I was wondering, though, how ambient music is scored? Any input? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 22:09:59 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Mark Hodgson Subject: oops In a response to Mike Metlay, I didn't check references, so FWIW: 1) I meant "clavichord," not clavier, as a predecessor to the piano 2) I meant "John Broadwood," not Broadbent, as one of the inventors of the piano. When I checked an old reference I was amazed to see just how many people can take credit in this process--Broadwood (England) invented the sustain pedal, Erard (Paris) the hammer action, Babcock (U.S.) the cast-iron frame and cross-stringing. But, manufacturer's claims to the contrary, I'm sure, there is a whole lot less variation across manufacturers today in what makes a piano plink, than there is in what makes each synthesizer . . . well, you know. And I don't think that will always be the case for synths. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:33:52 GMT Reply-To: jetman@tunanet.com Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: jetman Organization: tunanet Subject: Re: comp tape Comments: To: homer!AMERICAN.EDU!EMUSIC-L@AMERICAN.EDU Eric Harnden (Ronin) wrote: >oh, wait... here's a thought. i can get the DAT master cut to one-shot CDs for those that want them. i think the blanks cost about $20. i'll find out what the local costs for teh actual transfer would be. i've got some friends with the requisite equipment... maybe i can get a deal. > 74 minute blanks go for $7.49 + shipping from the Media Store in CA (800 number available). The one-off's aren't a bad idea, but a short CD run would be very cool. I will volunteer contributing the pre-master CD if is possible. I've mastered over 50 CD's and would be happy to master this as well if Eric has any doubts or if his equipment isn't up to it. (Not tryin' to steal/spoil your show Eric, just want to help out). I think we can get a better price than $3K for a run of CD's, I'll look for it. Costs are significantly brought down if we provide the artwork which a friend of mine can do (I've checked, she'll do it for a listing in the CD credits). We may be able to swing it for about $200 per person, maybe less, . . . do-able? Jeff Talman jetman@tunanet.com PS If the project does go to DAT, I'm still very interested to participate. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 23:43:32 -0500 Reply-To: Electronic Music Discussion List Sender: Electronic Music Discussion List From: Bruce Edwards Subject: Re: Art--><--emusic--help! Replying to: "Alan M. Bookmiller" Alan -- With all the "what works for me may be mud slide for you . . ." caveats invoked and not entirely intending to waltz in through the philistine door I will invoke the artistic necessity for evolving some business structure first. After an initial "meeting" where I attempt to absorb some of the gestalt of the project and try to get the collaborators to present their complete wish list (Shostakovich for composer, Martian symphony, Mormon tabernacle choir w/ Sen Sen Jimmy Mean as director all to be printed in 3 months) the second meeting invariably deals with defining a budget. Nor are the primary budgetary ("budget" being at least a 2d vector function) concerns "cash" . . . cash (working capital) becomes a function of time & sonic complexity. Whether you are composing & performing everything yourself or subcontracting components getting the "budget" (including how much "time" you have) will, as a rule, help to focus compositional tasks (don't remember whether I mentioned on this list that several years ago a project on which I worked seemed to cry for MIDI and electronic transducers to be built into Sail boards -- which would then be the primary instruments of the performance -- budgetary constraints reduced scope of the project considerably though it was performed with input from the "wind" in an outdoor setting by a small manmade pond) If I understand correctly part of your concern seems to be that you want the music to contribute a unifying thread to a large number of diverse visual objects, that you, initially at least, want the music to impose this coordination rather than write 100 short pieces about Virgil Sova. In addition the post suggests that the music will be derived as a function of Art rather than graphic works "matched" to portions of a Variation or Song Cycle. My belief is that (even if painter & composer were commissioned to produce a simultaneous representational portrait) any links among graphic & sonic work are arbitrary ("E" is the "red" note for Hyden because he says it is but it is not necessarily the "red" note for Peter Workman). With these initial criteria, & assuming that no clear coordinating principle has arisen (with budget firmly in mind & totally ignored) The first steps for me, & the only ones I intend to discuss in this post, involve trying to generate "pattern" (i.e. generate a template that under other circumstances might be called waltz, ballad, sinofina etc.) I would start merely by labeling and sorting the graphic pieces: by size, by date, by colour, by relationship to specific "schools" -- probably use at least two sort classes but no more than three (figuring that I am dealing with about 100 works). (might set up spreadsheet (or database) worksheets (thumbnail of work with extremely brief verbal description as cell data); parameter 'A" as x axis, "B" as y axis, 'C' as z axis; these labels can then be used for a second file into which *.wav files of potential themes for each work may be dropped etc.) Next would abstract several characteristics that are held by all the paintings to be used as variables: colour (not specific colours just "colour" as a variable), brushwork, transparency/opacity of surface, granularity . For each variable establish a "spectrum" with at least 8 steps (more than 127 steps might be a little difficult to map to MIDI) Starting with what might be the easiest to work with: color. If you accept a spectrum in which violet corresponds to short frequencies and red to long frequencies. Colors can be mapped to pitch, notes within a scale. Colors can be mapped to keys. Colors can be mapped to modes. Brush work can be mapped to either the rhythmic "unit" the ostinato (played or "understood") or to the % of the rhythmic unit a "sound" occupies Opacity or transparency can be mapped to the other. One of these, all three or others can be used for control parameters for an algorithmic composition program: A picture is analyzed to be predominately blue; the blue is spread evenly throughout the painting, but occupies no large blocks; the impression from the painting is of long fluid lines (as opposed to short choppy strokes) but there is little chiaroscuro and the surface is fairly opaque. The ALcomp might be weighted for pitches corresponding with "blue", for "long" notes, but for only a small % of that note to actually sound. At this point the actual choices do not matter as long as they are applied consistently across the your sample base (1 in ten of the pictures; 1 from each "class", all of them). I would also run "random" Alcomp's. At each point some usable music might be generated, or even if the notes themselves, the ostinato data is useless, coordinating "ideas" might arise (at which point the stuff that looks like "busy" work can stop) but the main purpose is to select the "patterns" you are going to apply. Part of the reason for using the algorithmic composer is not to escape bias but to apply the selected biases consistantly across the sample . . . human's tend to modify selected filters immediately. Parallel with abstracting significant arbitrary components (reducing complexity and looking for the skeleton (or manufacturing it depending upon your view)) I also make considerable use of the "non-structured" capabilities of modern electronics . . . might look at paintings once and then just play, might spend time organizing (agonizing) analyzing take a day off to go to the fair, return to the basement, leave lights off flip analog, digital, MIDI recorders on and play till tape runs out; might set up a 23 sec slide show cycle (in projector or computer) and play beneath the cascading images. Rather than trying to describe or mirror the images the intent might be to create a sonic "gallery" in which they may hang: how will they be lighted; are the walls stone or wood; do they hang along a straight path all at equal height or is the journey serpentine; is one suddenly thrust into the center of the room, below eye level in such a way it can be viewed from 360 deg? -- not deal with picture's "content" at all but generating the matrix in which they float. This stuff is not only available for ear auditions, looking not only for the half dozen or so notes that might be worth keeping but also looking for "pattern", but MIDI generates numeric data that can be analyzed a number of different ways. While it is not something I do every time I play 15 min. of non-structured data, it is not uncommon for me to dump an "events list" of MIDI data into a spread sheet -- can then compare and contrast stuff in a slightly different format: graphs, low rent stat. analysis. MIDI data is also printed as standard notation. Data can be thinned and notes in a measure can be "pulled" together into chords the ensuing chord progressions might suggest "pattern". Sit down with a pencil and piece of staff paper, select a painting at random the thin white line in the middle suggests f, bflt, f, bflt, g, c put the paper aside, select another painting at random write another short sequence of notes . . . If a general design for the music has yet to emerge there should be enough raw data with enough consistencies running through them to begin to twist a structure into shape -- at this point the "writing" has not quite begun -- still just framing a pulse, sketching the propulsion. At this point I might get some copies, usually ones that can be handled, wrinkled, folded into airplanes etc. and visit a 4 & 5 year old niece and nephew to play rorschach and free association; these sessions can be weighted at various points along a spectrum of seriousness and irreverence. I turn a tape recorder on and cross reference responses to labels. Even if it is not your strong suit there is almost always at least one musician in town with a talent for converting the non specific language of the industry into usable phrases: "You got t' play the thing of this . . ." "you got to, you know, not staccato, not vibrato, you know play with moving your hand like this . . ." "what you've played is just real good now but we need you to try to get a more obligato feel on the legato passage coming out of the turn around, you know where you go to the 9th add 4 chord . . . oh, thank you" etc. etc. Or a live musician with a talent for quotes and/or spooking random members of the audience -- playing a passage that sounds just like that guy, over there, walks. If you find such a player, take your "pulse" ('s') and the kids comments and for label x55/2p have them play "mushy" over the pulse (if you find the guy don't forget to budget them for a "co-write" rather just the $69.70 session fee) --- By now no matter how damn blocked you may have started not only should there be enough raw data but at least the suggestion of a design thread should be emerging, enough so that your strategies for formalizing (oblique strategies or traditional orchestration) have enough substance, substrate for action . . .these patterns can focus on nearly any musical component: harmony, thematic progression, timbers (Indonisean style mirimbas with paddles slapping water for percussion -- straight ahead jazz sextet) Anyone who has had experience in collaborations with even 2 art forms that are, in the minds of the general populace, as intimately intertwined as instrumental music for choral works or instrumental support for dance should be well aware of how difficult it is to establish dynamic dialog among competing sensory filters . . . (years ago a friend wrote & asked if I would arrange/orchestrate a piece of music he had written. I said sure, no problem. I will never forget how surprised & amazed I was when what showed up was a fairly traditional SONG written for 4 part vocal harmony . . . I literally could not understand why anyone would send me a SONG to arrange -- it is not what I did (not by fiat, but just -- I seldom wrote accompaniment -- when I participated in pop/rock stuff I might write the lyrics but almost always I had a partner contribute the music . . . at that point my compositions were almost exclusively (& militantly) instrumental) ). . . & accompaniment is easier than translation (think of Italian to English, Classical Japanese to English) which is easier than what I choose to believe you, Alan M. Bookmiller, are attempting with this CD-ROM: not sound derived as a function of vision; not music as description of paintings but a dynamic dialog engaging (at least) visual and auditory filters. What I bring to such projects is not only (perhaps) technical skill nor compositional expertise but MUSIC is both process & product for me -- it is so tightly integrated with how & why I live my life that it is both the block of wood upon which I carve & the tool that is wielded. What I have tried to impart here is not so much a technique or handful of linked techniques used to achieve "inspiration" but that to integrate the disparate forms of perception it is not just enough to understand what the artist meant (understanding may or may not arrive) the works have to come home, not to my kitchen to hang on the walls, but the images have to come home to the mind -- to walk with me down the street arguing about the Turin test, help me split wood for the week end fires . . . while this is not sufficient for "good" music it is a necessary process, for me . . . so I apply "John Nagy 'Learn to Draw'" techniques in the manner of arguing with old friends -- if that relationship can not be established the best I can do is improvise 100 themes above 32 bars of chord changes (& maybe hire a "blind deaf dumb kid" to play the drums while I do it . . .) regards B. Edwards