Subjects                                                      No of Lines

1.   CND Opens Visa/Job/Legal Discussion Column . . . . . . . . . . . .31
2.   CND Q&A Column on Visa/Job legal Matters (I) . . . . . . . . . . .84
3.   CND Ad. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
4.   Special Package on Visa and Job Hunting (Series 1) ............. 450
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. CND Opens Visa/Job/Legal Discussion Column . . . . . . . . . . . . .31
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cnd-ep@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Bo Xiong for CND)

Do you have unanswered questions about visa/job/legal matter?

Have you found difficulty in searching the infomation you need from the
ocean of network messages?

Have you sometimes disappointed at not getting specific answers to your
questions posted on the network?

Do you hesitate to ask some questions about visa/job/legal matter publicly
on the network?

Just subscribe to to China News Digest!

CND is opening a special column for dealing with all of these questions
to respond to the increasing demands from computer netters.

Please send your questions to the e-address on the header of this posting,
no matter the question is about visa status, job hunting, legal problem in
marriage/property and etc., CND's amateur experts will give you a specific
answer or discussion in CND Q&A Column.

The mail you send to <cnd-ep@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> is CONFIDENTIAL, only
designated CND columnist can read it, your name and personal backgroud related
to your questions will be erased at your request when CND publishes the   Q&A
in the column.

Got a question?  Just try to ask CND!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. CND Q&A Column on Visa/Job/Legal Matters (I) . . . . . . . . . . . 84
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CND Q&A Editor Bo Xiong <cnd-ep@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 90

NOTE: All discussions on this column are for your information only, one
      should consult his/her lawyer or proper professionals before handling
      his/her own visa/job/legal matter.

I.  Applying for US PR while Working Overseas
---------------------------------------------
Q: From: ***@***.nmt.edu

   A division of an American company in Japan is offering job opportunities
   to the international students in our school. The company promises to
   apply H-1 and green card for us ( I am a student ).  My questions are:

   1. Can the company apply immigration status for their emploees working
      overseas?

   2. If the answer for '1' is yes, will they have the interview with
      immigration officer in U.S.A or in Japan, or in their home country?

   3. Also, if the answer for '1' is yes, does one have the same chance of
      getting a green card overseas as getting it in U.S.A?

   Afraid of risking my life,  I would like to ask somebody who can tell me
   something before I apply for that job.

   Thank you in advance.

A: 1. Yes, US company may sponsor PR applications for their overseas
      employees through the third preference procedure.

   2. No, those employees outside of the US must be interviewed in overseas
      US consulates before they can be issued immigration visa to US.

   3. Personally, I don't think the chances are equal, because 1) If one's
      application is denied by US consul, he/she will has no chance to
      take the case to US immigration court since the consul has the final
      say in immigration matter per US immigration law.  2) It could be
      more difficult for his/her employer to apply for Alien Employment
      Certification (Labor Certification) for the employees since they are
      outside US and it's not so easy to justify their qualifications.
      3) There is a risk that the employer may lay off alien workers in its
      overseas sub-companies, in this case, one has few chance to find a job
      in another US company and may also have trouble in visa status in that
      country (saying Japan in your case).  4) If one has filed for PR, he/
      she is very unlikely to be issued an US non-immigration entry visa.

II. Asking for US Consul's Name in Shanghai
-------------------------------------------
Q: Can you tell me the name of US consul in Shanghai in charge of visa
   issuance?  (A question someone asked on soc.culture.china)

A: I don't know the consul's name, but I know at least one US consul's
   name, i.e., the one who issued my entry visa to the US.  He signed
   his name on the visa stamp on my passport.  So, you may just ask anyone
   who recently got his/her visa (whatever visa) from US Consulate General at
   Shanghai.  By the way, you don't have to ask to look at their passports,
   just ask them to look by themselves and tell you the name.

III. Want to Marry Her Fiance in China without Going Back
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: Can one get married with her fiance without going back to China?
   (A question someone asked on soc.culture.china)

A: No, Chinese law requires that BOTH PARTIES are present at marriage
   registeration office with proper documents for the issuance of their
   marriage certificate.  If both parties are overseas, they may register
   their marriage in local Chinese consulate if they want a Chinese
   certificate, but both parties are still required to present at the
   consulate.

   If one reads People's Daily carefully, he/she might have seen an article
   last May on legal consultant column of the newspaper, the article even
   declared that if one gets his/her marriage certificate in some way WITHOUT
   both parties present at marriage registration office, the certificate will
   be revoked if the falsity is found later.

   Finally, if US INS finds that one gets married with someone in foreign
   country without leaving US, he/she will have great difficulty in applying
   for any kind of visa for his/her spouse.

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3. CND Ad. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
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+----------------------+
| Wanted: Your see-saw |
+----------------------+
Dear Readers,
  The major function of CND-US is to help the communication among Chinsee
students, scholars, and local Chinese communities within the U.S.  If you
find anything that is interesting and meaningful, and you think that it
will also interest others, please send it to us and let everybody share
it with you!
  CND-US welcomes your report and opinion about the going-ons around you
and appreciates your support.

+=========================================================================+
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+=========================================================================+
=========================================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Oct 90 01:34:40 CDT
Reply-To:     'China News Digest' <CHINA-ND@KENTVM.BITNET>
Sender:       'China News Digest' <CHINA-ND@KENTVM.BITNET>
From:         tang@tc1.chem.iastate.edu
Subject:      NDUS, Job Series 2, Oct 17, 1990

          *  *  *   C H I N A    N E W S    D I G E S T   *  *  *

                            September 27, 1990

            Special Package on Visa and Job Hunting (Series 2)

        +-+-+-+- ( China News Digest,  US Section Service) -+-+-+-+

Editor's Note: This special  series is sponsored  by China News  Digest to
               assist Chinese students  and scholars in  U. S. in  dealing
               with Visa  or Job  related problems.   It is  mostly edited
               materials  which has previously  appeared on SCC  (A Usenet
               discussion group).  CND suggests that this materials should
               only be used  for your reference rather  than authoritative
               answers.  You may contact your local  foreign student advi-
               sor or INS  for further details on related  questions.  CND
               welcomes comments and contributions.

         - - - - - - T a b l e   o f   C o n t e n t s - - - - - -
No. Subjects                                                    # of Lines
1.  Job Hunting Essentials (A Conversation on Job Hunting)  . . . . . . 85
2.  Q & A's on Job Hunting  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  104
3.  Job Situations of Some Graduated Chinese Students (Table List)  .  115
4.  Current Situation on U.S. Job Market  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.  Job Hunting Essentials (A Conversation on Job Hunting)  . . . . . . 85
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)        Date: 18 Sep 90 19:59:43 GMT

     More and more Chinese students and scholars in the  US have found/are
looking/ will be looking for decent/permanent job out of various reasons.

     Many  of  them  have  no  experience  in  job-hunting,  especially in
collecting job related  info, due to the fact that Chinese gradutes in PRC
were (are ?) not allowed to find job themselves upon their graduation from
Chinese colleges, therefore there  was (is ?) no need for  them to collect
job info nor the  info was (is ?)  available in PRC  in terms of free  job
market.

     The following is  the transcription and translation  of conversations
between a graduated  Chinese student (A) and a  graduating Chinese student
(B).

                            - - - - - - - - - -

B:   I am graduting  this fall semester and considering to look for a job,
     I have  read several newspapers but there  seems not many chances for
     me.

A:   Well, there  should be some chances on the job  market since US is to
     make progress in  its economy and society.   What newspaper have  you
     looked at?

B:   Some nationwide newspaper published in midwest, east and west coasts,
     such as New Yourk Times, Los Angeles Times and Chicago Tribune.

A:   Where did you get those newspapers?

B:   The library in my school.

A:   I guess that's where  the problem is.  Let's take  Chicago Tribune as
     an example.   Since you school is far from Chicago, most probably the
     library subscribes to  Chicago Tribune "Final" or  "National" edition
     in which the classified columns do not include much job info, I don't
     know why, but it's the case.

B:   What's the correct edition?

A:   As for Chicago Tribune, you have to read "City" edition(not "Chicago-
     land"  edition), and  also, MOST  job  ads are  appeared on  Sundays'
     "City" edition classified.  You may call toll-free # at 1-800-tribune
     and tell them your credit card # to subscribe to Chicago Tribune CITY
     EDITION SUNDAY ONLY for less than $10/month, you'll receive it two or
     three days after previous Sundays.  Someone else told  me the similar
     situations for those major newspapers in the east and west coasts.

B:   I also read  our local newspaper and  saw some job ads on  it, do you
     think those local newspapers contain valueable info about job?

A:   It's hard to generally evaluate the helpfulness of local newpapers in
     job hunting, it varies from township to township and depends on where
     you live.  However, those newspapers  published in metropolitan areas
     certainly contain  much more  job infomation  because most  employers
     like to seek  for qualified persons from geographically  larger area.
     On  the  other hand,  don't forget  to  make use  of the  career ser-
     vices/placement office in  your school, they can  usually provide job
     info that's  much more suitable and specific to your major because of
     their connections with  prospective employers.  No need  to say, your
     connections with your  friends, graduate advisors and  relative might
     provide your invalueable job info.  Another job  info source could be
     departmental offices in your  school, they usually receive  all kinds
     of employment info and post it on public bulletin board.

B:   If I am going  to look for a teaching/research job  in college, where
     to find the job ads?

A:   The "Chronicle of Higher Education" is one of the most important  job
     info  sources in  academic society, it  carries, on its  Section B, a
     wide variety of college job ads, from two-year college through top US
     universities, from bachelor's degree through postdoctor, from labora-
     tory attendent through  fulltime professorship, from US  to overseas,
     the weekly  newspaper runs  job ads  in all  major and  all field  in
     academic environment.   This  newspaper is  available in any  college
     library and in  most departmental offices.  Besides, you may also see
     many  job ads  on some  academic/science/engineering newspapers/maga-
     zines in some  special field, such  as "American Chemical  Engineer",
     etc..

B:   I understand that my major is not that hot on the current job market,
     how can I do an efficient job search in my case?

A:   There seems  no absolutely "cold" major, as far  as I know, there are
     quite a few Chinese students who succeded in finding a job and earned
     their degrees in "cold" fields  from masters to Ph.D. in Linguistics,
     American Literature and Physical Education.  Of course, it's not that
     easy for them  to find  their jobs, they  had very  hard time in  the
     whole  process of  their  job searching,  from  resume writing,  info
     collecting, interviewing to  finally getting a job offer.   For those
     who major in some  science and engineering  fields, the life seems  a
     little bit easier  for them in terms  of job hunting. It  will take a
     while to talk about those cases and stories.

B:   OK, let's talk those into detail next time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.  Q & A's on Job Hunting  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  104
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)        Date: 19 Sep 90 15:54:54 GMT

long@castor.crhc.uiuc.edu (Junsheng Long) writes:

     "Just some thoughts:
     Resume  writing  and  interview  are  two of the most important parts
     in hunting a  job, if you have no  inside help. There are  many books
     that  give general  techniques for  resume writing and  interview and
     they can help you at least to know the process of job searches."

     One  may visit his/her university career services/placement office or
library to find  out those books and  video tapes about the  techniques in
resume writing and interview. In many  schools, students can  even have  a
videotaped "simulation interview" to pratice themselves.

     Generally speaking, those books and videotapes can only provide  some
generic interviewee's techniques of  meeting with recuiters, but the  most
important  interviews are usually conducted by prospective supervisors and
co-workers  in the  places  where  one will  work  (i.e., visiting  future
employer),  the topics in the interview will be mostly concentrated on the
technical scope.

     Another thing needs  to be pointed  out is  that most resume  writing
guides are  for undergraduates, a  good place  to look  at sample  resumes
written by masters and Ph.D.'s is news  group job.resume, you may also see
a lots of job info on  the usenet news groups ***.job.*** (there are  more
than five job groups available now on usenet).

     "Sometimes,  you  may  hear  the suggestion that  one should boast 70
     percent  if he knows  30 percent, when  writing a resume.  I feel you
     should  be honest  and fact-minded.  Noone will  be  comfortable with
     boasting guys.  Avoid using the  subjective terms, such  as creative,
     very important or reputed. Use facts to back your claims. If you know
     a language (e.g., C++),  place it in a project you  have participated
     in (for example, designed and  implemented XXX in C++). Describe your
     experience and  projects in some details so that others can know more
     about you."

     Yes,  in many cases,  prospective employers will  call applicants and
talk some  technical issues briefly  on phone, if one  exaggerates his/her
knowledge and  ability in his/her  resume and shows less/nothing  in phone
conversation,  he/she will  not be  invited  to the  employer's place  for
(further/final) interview.

     "News  papers  may  not  be a good place to spot openings, especially
     for one with  a Ph.D.. Direct call to  the companies and universities
     you  are interested  may work  for you.  There are  many unadvertised
     openings. My wife got her dreamed job in this manner."

     To find out the companies and universities you are interested in, you
may  look at  some books  and publications  about job/labor  market, e.g.,
"Peterson's Guide"  Job Section  in Computer  Science/Electrical Engineer-
ing/... (foreign  students usually very  familiar to this  book's graduate
programs section), "Opportunities in Chemistry", "CPC Annual Job Report on
Job  Market",  etc.. These  publications give  very detail  statistics and
trend prediction  of Job Market  in all fields,  and list most  US compan-
ies'/schools' hiring records of past years.  You  may  find  what employer
needs what major with what degree in those books.

     "Aim  high.  Consider  the  future  growth  for  your  career.  Don't
     settle for less. Looking  a job in small companies may  not be easier
     than in the large ones. Small companies look for the experienced ones
     who can start to work right way. Many of us are from school to school
     and lack of real working experience. The large companies usually have
     training  for new  employees and  therefore they  can afford  to take
     someone less experienced."

     It's ture that looking for a job in small companies may not be easier
than in the large ones.

     The  question is  that what's  one's preliminary  goal, if  one takes
getting  US permanent residence  as FIRST goal,  it might  not matter that
much whether he/she work  in a large companies and how  good the salary is
(see China Spring Magazine, July and August, 1990).  On the other hand, it
could  be easier  for an  alien to  get Alien Employment  Certification if
he/she has  work experience in related  field prior to joining  in his/her
current company.

     If one is  hired by  a company  who will train  him/her, when  he/she
files for AEC, Labor Department  will ask his/her employer to  explain why
they don't train US  workers since the position  is an entry level  job or
less  experience required,  which will  bring  extra trouble  to both  the
applicant and his/her employer.

     "Don't  feel  bad  about  yourself  if  you  got a rejection  letter.
     Everyone gets  rejected and possibly  a lot. Think  positively: there
     are many jobs waiting for me; it  is I who haven't found them yet. If
     you try hard, you will have a happy ending."

     It is  said that if you send out  100 application letters, receive 30
replies (whatever replies :-)  out of the 100 letters, get  10 phone calls
out  of the 30 replies, finally are called for interview by 3 emplyors out
of the 10 phone calls, YOU ARE LUCKY DOG!

     However, if you send your applications to "right" employers, the "hit
ratio" will be definitely higher.  From my  own experience, I sent out 110
letters  in later  1988 and  received 20  responses, only  got two  unpaid
interviews out of the 100 application letters.  Then, in early 1989, after
careful study  (do homework  :-) on my  qualifications and  employers' re-
quirements, I sent  out 60 letters  and got 36  phone calls, 14  employers
called me for interview  and I only went for 10 of  those 14 interviews (I
gave up four  interviews because they wouldn't  pay me for travel  and the
places are beyond one day drive).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.  Job Situations of Some Graduated Chinese Students (Table List)  .  115
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)        Date: 20 Sep 90 18:46:54 GMT

     The following table  may give readers some idea  about job situations
of some  graduated Chinese students,  the table was prepared  according to
first hand information.

     The following table  may give SCC readers some idea  about job situations
of some graduated Chinese students, the table was  prepared according to first
hand information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
No.|Sex|Age| Yrs| Start | Major/ | Job Title/ | Salary | History | Employer/
   |   |   | in | Date/ | Degree | Service    |Raise in| of Visa | Location/
   |   |   | US | Salary|        | When hired | 1st Yr | Status  |# of workers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.   M  4?   8   12-85   Physics   Assistant      4%    J-1/F-1    A Midwest
                 /30K    /Ph.D.    Professor            /H-1/PR    State Univ.
                                   in CS Dept.

2.   M  35   7   86      Architect Assistant      ?      J-1/PR    A Midwest
                 /28K    /MS       Professor                       State Univ.

3.   M  35   8   9-87    Computer  Assistant      8%     F-1/H-1   National
                 /30K    Sci./MS   Scientist             /PR       Lab.

4.   F  37   6   2-88    Psychology/   ?          ?      F-1/H-1   Trading Co.
                 /27K    Education/MA                              Chicago(70)

5.   M  33   4   6-88    Computer  Consultant     ?      F-1/H-1   Comp. Store
                 /29K    Sci./MA                                   Chicago /50

6.   M  3?   5   6-88    Computer      ?          -      F-1/H-1   SoftwareCo.
                 /32K    Sci./MS                                   Chicago /25

7.   M  36   8   8-89      MBA     Programmer     ?       F-1/PR   Trading Co.
                 /28K              in COBOL           (by marrage) Ohio /20

8.   M  3?   4   8-89    Industry  Engineer       15%     F-1/H-1  Manuf. Co.
                 /24K    Tech/MA                                   Chicago/200

9.   M  42   4   8-89    Computer      ?          ?      F-1/H-1  Comp.Co./200
                 /33K    Sci./MA                                   San Jose,CA

10.  M  3?   3   8-89    Computer  Engineering    12%    F-1/H-1   A R&D Inc.
                 /34K(?) Sci./MS   Coordinator                   Chicago/5000

11.  M  4*   7   8-89    Physics   Senior         10%      PR    MajorUS Semi-
                 /57K    /Ph.D.    Scientist                     Conductor Co.

12.  F  2?   4   1-90     MBA      Programmer     20%    F-1       SoftwareCo.
                 /21K                                    /Training LA, CA /40

13.  M  3?   5   1-90    Computer      ?           -     J-1/H-1   Comp. Co.
                 /3?K    Sci./MS                                   Chicago/220

14.  M  35   6   2-90   Linguistics Instructor     -     J-1/H-1   4-YrCollege
                 /25K   /Ph.D.                                     in Midwest

15.  F  30   5   6-90    Computer    Analyst       -     F-1       LargeInsur.
                 /33K    Sci./Ph.D.                      /Training Co.,Chicago

16.  F  3?   5   6-90      MBA         ?           -     J-1/F-1   Nat'lInsur.
                 /35K                                    /Training Co.,Chicago

17.  F  3?   6   6-90    Ed. & Math    ?           -     J-1        Insurance,
                 /33K    /Ed.D                           /Non-status  Chicago

18.  M  3*   6   6-90    Computer    Analyst       -     J-1        Comp. Co.
                 /42K    Sci./Ph.D.                      /Training  Chicago/20

19.  F  37   7   6-90   Linguistics  Assistant     -     J-1       2-YrCollege
                 /27K    /Ph.D.      Professor           /Training  in Midwest
                                   (Teaching Chinese)

20.  F  38   4   6-90   Physical    Instructor     -     F-1       2-YrCollege
                 /23K   Ed./MA      in gymnastics        /Training  in Nevada

21.  F  2*   4   7-90   Architect   Architect      -     J-1       Arch. Firm
                 /23K   /MA                              /Training Chicago/500

22.  M  4?   10  7-90   American    Technical      -     F-1/PR    SoftwareCo.
                 /3?K   Literature  Writer(?)                      Chicago
                        /Ph.D.

23.  M  3*   5   9-90   Computer    Software       -     J-1       Industr.Co.
                 /34K   Sci./MS     Engineer           /Non-status Chicago/800

24.  M  4?   ?   5-89    Animal   Researcher(?)    ?     F-1/H-1   A Midwest
                 /3?K    Sci./MS                                 Research Inc.

25.  F  34   7   7-89    Math.      Assistant      ?     F-1/H-1  4-Yr College
                 /26K    /Ph.D.     Professor                      in SC

26.  M  3?   8   7-89  Electrical   Assistant      ?     J-1/?    An Univ., TX
                 /32K  Eng./Ph.D.   Professor

27.  M  28   3   7-89  Physiology   Laboratory     ?     F-1/H-1   A Midwest
                 /17K  /MS          Attendent                      University

28.  M  30   4  12-89  Electrical   Engineer      15%    J-1/H-1   Electronics
                /27K   Eng./MS                                     Co., IL/400

29.  M  3?   6  12-89  Material        ?           -     J-1/H-1   A R&D Co.
                /4?K   Sci./Ph.D.                                  /1300

30.  M  3?   5   3-90  Physiology   Laboratory     _     J-1/H-1  4-Yr College
                 /27K  /Ph.D.       Instructor                     in IL

30.  M  3?   4   4-90  Chemistry     Lab.          -     J-1/H-1   Chem. Co.
                 /23K  /MA           Analyst                       Chicago/120

32.  M  3?   7   4-90  Biophysics    Research      _     J-1         A R&D Co,
                 /42K  /Ph.D.        Scientist           /Training   Ohio/2000

33.  F  26   3   6-90  Surgical         ?          -     J-1       An Hospital
                 /32K  Pathology/MD                      /Non-status  in MI

(The end of the table)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.  Current Situation on U.S. Job Market  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: tang@iastate.edu "Deming Tang"         Date: 12 Oct 90 15:51:36 GMT
>Source: UPI News

     BETHLEHEM, Pa. (UPI)  -- This year's college graduates  found the job
market a  mixed bag, but the  demand for chemical and  petroleum engineers
brought higher starting salaries, a survey says.

     The survey by the College Placement Council Inc., based in Bethlehem,
showed  that graduates in the technical fields were aggressively recruited
and received  higher starting  salaries, while  graduates in other  fields
faced a tight job market.

     Salary offers to petroleum engineers rose 7.4 percent since September
1989 to an average of $35,202 a year, the survey said. Chemical
engineers also saw a 6.6 percent increase to average salaries of $36, 112.

     Salaries for mechanical engineers also increased, but not by as much,
the survey  said. Starting  salaries  rose 5.2  percent to  an average  of
$32,064.

     The demand for health-care professionals also continued to grow. A
nursing shortage drove the starting salaries for nursing graduates up 13.5
percent to an average of $28,270. Allied health graduates got 12.4 percent
more in 1990 over 1989, with the average starting salary being $27,436.

     Computer science  graduates saw salaries  increase 4 percent  to $29,
804, but  the need for  information science graduates shot  their starting
salaries up 8.3 percent to $28,631.

     Cutbacks by  financial employers resulted  in a tight job  market for
economics and finance  majors, the survey said. Those  majors saw starting
salaries rise 1.9 percent to an average of $25,184.

     Salaries for human resources majors averaged only 1.1 percent more in
1990 to $23,101.  But salaries for journalism graduates  dropped 3 percent
to $19,488.

     MBA's fared  well, although there  were reports of  decreased hiring,
the survey said.

     Nontechnical undergraduates getting master's degrees but with no work
experience saw average salaries increase 6.8 percent to $36,175.
Commercial bankers in this group averaged $36,626.

     However, MBA grads with technical  backgrounds only saw a 1.7 percent
in average salaries at $37,737.

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4. SPECIAL PACKAGE ON VISA AND JOB HUNTING (SERIES 1) .............. 450
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         - - - - - - T a b l e   o f   C o n t e n t s - - - - - -
No. Subjects                                                    # of Lines
1.  Travel to Canada after Adjustment of Non-immigrant Status in US . . 68
2.  Waiting for Labor Certification without Consuming H-1 Time  . . .  289
3.  Q & A Relating to Previous Subjects . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  115
4.  A Foreign Student Advisor's Comment on Presidential Directive . . . 38

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1.  Travel to Canada after Adjustment of Non-immigrant Status in US . . 68
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>From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)        Date: 14 Sep 90 17:55:46 GMT

     If one switches his/her non-immigration status in the US, from F-1 to
H-1 or from J-1 to H-1/F-1 (with two-year home country residence  require-
ment  waived), he/she  will usually received  his/her new form  I-94 and a
notice of  approval of  new non-immigrant status  from US  Immigration and
Naturalization Services, with a stamp "New  Visa Required to Return to US"
on both of the above-mentioned INS documents.

     Many people in the similar situations are very concerned whether they
can still  travel to Canada and  return to US  WITHOUT applying for  a new
entry visa just like that those who haven't changed their status in the US
can return to US from Canada by showing their passport, form I-94 and I-20
or IAP-66 to US INS officer when crossing the border.

     Indeed, it's a big benefit that  one can travel to Canada and  return
to US without the need of applying for new entry  visa, are those who have
changed their status still entitled such a benefit?

     Here is the recent experience from a friend of mine (transcribed from
yesterday's phone conversation) :

   ... "I went to Canada with my wife recently and we had very nice trip."

   "How did you come back to Chicago?  I know you switched from J-1 to H-1
   this past January and your wife from J-2 to H-4."

   "Well, when I went to Canada Consulate in Chicago and applied for entry
   visa, I asked Canadian consul that if  I could return to US from Canada
   without a new US  entry visa.  The consul examined my  I-94 and told me
   'no problem to come back under this status' if I would cross the border
   on ground, though my I-94 says a new visa required to return to US"

   "I and my wife got the Canadian visa in four hours, 'we won't issue the
   visa if you  have trouble to return  to US', said the  Canadian consul.
   in the same day, the consul rejected the application for visitor's visa
   made by other two Chinese, the  reason is that they will graduate  soon
   so the consul thought that they are going to look for job in Canada."

   "I drove  to  Buffalo, New  York and  crossed border  there, I  crossed
   border three times back and forth in a single day."

   "How and why did you do that?"

   "I  lived in the motel on US side  and went to Canadian side for sight-
   seeing, and also,  I went  back to US  side to  refuel my car,  because
   everything in Canada is very expensive, those Canadian border residents
   do so everyday."

   "Finally,  I visited  Toronto and  Ottawa, those  are nice  places with
   European  city style.   I stayed in  Canada for one  week before I came
   back."

   "Had you had any  trouble when crossing border?  How did  US and Canada
   INS officers check your travel documents?"

   "Before  I left US for the first time,  I asked the US INS officer if I
   could come  back with  my passport  and I-94  (I don't  have any  other
   forms), the officer  told me that he had no problem  to let me re-enter
   US, but  he was not sure if  Canada officer would let me  out.  Then, I
   walked over the border bridge and asked the Canada INS officer before I
   really entered into Canada, I was told no problem to let me out.  So, I
   entered Canada with a very peaceful mind :-)"

   "By the way, I was only questioned once by US INS officer when I cross-
   ed the border back  and forth, he asked me  where I am working and  how
   long  I have  worked for my  company, that's  all.  The  border control
   seems loose,  US INS officer  just asks 'nationality?', if  one answers
   'United  States' and  he/she  has  an American  face,  the officer  let
   him/her go without asking for any travel documents."

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2.  Waiting for Labor Certification without Consuming H-1 Time  . . .  289
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>From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)        Date: 14 Sep 90 23:39:21 GMT

     If you  are/were Chinese student or  scholar, if you are  planning to
apply or in  the process  of applying  for US  Permanent Residence  (Green
Card), if you are going/have to  apply for your PR through the  Third Pre-
ference Procedure, and if ...

     Under  those "if's",  you  must  have been  very  concerned with  the
following facts:

  1) More  and more  Chinese students  and scholars  have got/are  looking
     for/will get their jobs in the United States.

  2) The third preference  immigration quota for the people  born in main-
     land  China is  running  out of  faster and  quicker, which  leads to
     longer and longer waiting period now and in the future.  In the worst
     case, you might not be able to get your PR before January 1, 1994  or
     your  H-1 (temporary  working visa,  up  to five/six  years) expires,
     whichever  comes later.  3)  It  takes longer  time  in most  states,
     especially in those  easier-job-hunting states, for alien  workers to
     be  issued Labor Certification  (renamed Alien  Employment Certifica-
     tion,  i.e. AEC,  after 1988).   Traditionally, the  AEC is  the most
     important step toward  PR through third preference procedure in the
     whole process.

  ...

     Here is  a way  some Chinese  students/scholars go in  order to  make
maximum use of BOTH US President Bush's Executive Order protecting Chinese
nationals AND the five/six-year duration of H-1 status.

     Again, the  following is  the transcription  and  translation of  the
conversation in last two weeks between me and a Chinese student.

I.   One Evening:

   "Hi,  I got a job offer  for 33K in ****,  the employer called me today
   and asked when I could start working."

   "Congratulation!  Are  you able  to start  right away?   Since you  are
   working on your second US degree with half way done.   What's your visa
   status now?"

   "That's why  I am calling you.   I am still on the  J-1 status and need
   another year to finish my second degree, but I am not going complete it
   because that's a big waste of my time.  I got this  offer with my first
   degree which is good  enough.  They offered to sponsor me  to apply for
   H-1, AEC and eventually  PR, but I am not sure on what  status I can go
   work here in the US now."

   "You may try to ask your school give you the permission for pre-comple-
   tion practical training, and then apply  for H-1 while you are working.
   In  this way, you may  start working as early  as your school gives you
   the permission."

II.  The Second Evening:

   "Too bad, the  foreign student advisor at  my school needs a  letter of
   suggestion from  my graduate advisor  to issue me  the work  permit for
   pre-completion practical training, but my  boss isn't happy with me and
   he knows that I am going to give up in the half way ...

   But I am lucky :-)  The foreign student advisor, who is a former US INS
   officer,  suggests  me to  take  advantage of  Bush's  Executive Order.
   Besides work permission  and waiver of J-1 two-year  home stay require-
   ment, The order offers one benefit that has been overlooked by  many of
   us, it's read  as 'maintenance of lawful status for  purpose of adjust-
   ment or change of  nonimmigrant status for such PRC nationals  who were
   in  lawful status  at any  time on  or after  June 5,  1989, up  to and
   including the date of  this order.' This is a direct  quote from Bush's
   order on April 11, 1990, item (C) of Section 3.

   The order is saying that any Chinese  national who was in lawful status
   at any time (not necessarily always/continued) between June 5, 1989 and
   April 11, 1990, will be still lawful alien even though they fall out of
   status  for whatever reason, even  intentionally like I  am going to do
   now :-)

   You know that I  returned to US from China  on June 10, 1989 after  two
   years absence  from US but  I am eligible  to ..., the  foreign student
   advisor offered to call INS Chicago office to tell them that  I'll fall
   out  of my student (J-1) status  so that the INS  office will prepare a
   work  permit and a letter of waiving  two-year home stay and certifying
   my  eligibility in the  future up to  January 1, 1994  for applying for
   change of status into other classifications from current non-status.

   I'll go and pick up the work permit and the letter."

III.  One Week Later:

   "Hi, I went  to INS Chicago  office this  week and got  my work  permit
   which is good  through January 1, 1994 and the letter of certifying the
   maintenance  of lawful nonimmigrant  status from  INS." (The  letter is
   attached to this posting)

   I have told the company that I'll start next Monday.

   The  INS officer assured  me that I  may apply for  change of my status
   into any nonimmigrant or immigrant category before January 1, 1994 if I
   am eligible for the change, i.e.,  I may apply for H-1 status  any time
   from now up to January  1, 1991.  But I am  NOT going to apply for  H-1
   until later 1993."

   "So, you are going to keep on the non-status while you are applying for
   AEC and waiting for the quota for the third preference immigration?"

   "You are damn right!   I just learnt that  a Chinese lady at my  school
   has been doing  so.  In this way,  I don't have to consume  my H-1 time
   while waiting for AEC, if I switch to H-1 in the later  1993, I'll have
   another five/six year starting  from the end of 1993 to  wait for my PR
   and I'll still  be continuously in lawful  status in the US,  in total,
   I'll  have almost  eight  years  waiting time,  that  should be  enough
   considering so many Chinese are applying for PR."

   "Is it risky ...?  if there is any  change on US foreign policy  toward
   PRC, have you seen  recent SCC posting warning every Chinese about Bush
   administration's new move  on the policy, if US and PRC kiss each other
   again,  Bush may  suspend  his  offer or  issue  another policy  toward
   Chinese nationals in the US ..."

   "At least, there should  be no much risk  in next few months  even next
   year, I  may just stay  on this non-status  until I start  to apply for
   AEC, then  I will  adjust my  status to  H-1 if  Bush is  to break  his
   promise :-)"

   "You meant that at least, you can  use a length of non-status period as
   your 'practical training  period' before you file your  application for
   ACE?   That might be a good  idea since the Department of labor usually
   requires at least one year US working experience  in related field when
   they process ACE applications."

   "Right, at least, the time when  I earn this required one year  experi-
   ence won't be  counted in my H-1  time and my H-1 time  will definitely
   last about three years beyond January 1, 1994."

   "But, it's said that the officers of Dept. of Labor favor  those appli-
   cants  who are  on H-1 status  when they process  AEC applications, and
   those J-1ers/F-1ers may file AEC  application but might have difficulty
   to pass the examination, though it's not required to have H-1 status to
   apply for AEC."

   "Where did you learn this saying?"

   "See those publications."  (See attachment to this posting)

   "Come on, you  can never touch tiger's kid  without encountering parent
   tigers. On the  other hand, people will be  changing, so those officers
   ..."

   "!!! ... (:) ..."  (What can I say :-)


Attachment No.1:   List of Publications mentioned in above conversation

1. World Journal Sunday Weekly, June 24 & August 19, 1990
2. China Spring Magazine, July & August, 1990
3. Practical Guide to United States Immigration Laws, by David M. Huang
   (Available in some World Journal Bookstores)
4. China News Digest US Section Services,  Visa Packages from July 1989
   through current
5. IFCSS news release and VISAUM, from July 1989 through current
6. SCC articles


Attachment No.2:   US INS Letter to PRC Nationals who fall out of status


                    UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
                   IMMIGRATION & NATURALIZATION SERVICE
                         219 SOUTH DEARBORN STREET
                          CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60604

September 05, 1990                                          File No. *****

Name and address of
the recipient withheld

Dear Sir/Madam:

It appears that  the period of your authorized stay as a non-immigrant has
expired.  However, the Attorney General has directed that you be permitted
to remain in the  United States until January 1, 1994.  You are authorized
to accept employment in the  United States while the directive remains  in
effect. However, before  you seek employment, you must  obtain evidence of
employment  authorization by  submitting Form I-765  without fee,  to this
office.

You also have  the right to  apply for any  benefit under the  Immigration
Laws for which you believe you are eligible.  If you otherwise qualify for
permanent residence or  change of nonimmigrant classification and  were in
lawful nonimmigrant status between June  5, 1989, and April 11,  1990, you
may file  for adjustment or change  of status before january 1,  1994.  If
you were an exchange visitor, the Attorney General has waived the two year
foreign residence requirement.   You may request confirmation  of this ir-
revocable  waiver at  any time in  conjunction or  change of status  up to
January 1, 1994.

If you have any questions, please  feel free to contact Shirley J  Roberts
at 312-886-0600.

Sincerely,

A.D. Moyer (Signature)
District Direct

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3.  Q & A Relating to Previous Subjects . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  115
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>From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)        Date: 18 Sep 90 04:25:29 GMT

Q: The title of your message is misleading.  The real suggestion is "Gett-
   ing work experience without consuming H-1 time."

A: No, the title should be:

Q: "Waiting for  the 3rd Preference  Quota without  Consuming First  Three
   Years of H-1 Time"  or "Some People trying  Go A Way to Save  Their H-1
   Time for Waiting the 3rd  Preference Quota"

Q: You don't get into the 3rd preference queue until you apply for

A: That's true,  but H-1 status  is theoretically NOT required  for filing
   for Labor  Certification (AEC),  I have read  through the  form ETA-750
   (AEC  application form), NO requirement for visa  status as long as the
   applicant is a lawful alien in the US.

   However, H-1ers  might be  favored  by some  officers in  the Dept.  of
   Labor, see  the series carried  in China Spring  July and August  issue
   (1990).

Q: ... But  INS can  deny your  application for  H-1 visa  after you  have
   applied  or got  labor  certification, since  that's  an indication  of
   intention of immigration.

A: This is  correct if and ONLY if the applicant  is applying for H-1 from
   an overseas US consulate.  Since 1987, US INS has accepted "DUAL INTEN-
   TION" on  H-1  cases, i.e.,  H-1 applicant  may have  the intention  of
   immigration when  he/she files  for H-1, otherwise,  NO ONE  would have
   been able to be granted renewal of his/her H-1 status after first three
   years of  her/his H-1  if he/ she  has applied for  Labor Certification
   (AEC) in the  first three years of  H-1, which is the most  common case
   for H-1ers.

   Also see those publications attached to original postings.

Q: However, most people can  use their one year  of practical training  to
   get the experience.

A: Sure, if they cannot get the "practical training" due to  some reasons,
   (there is some limitation on it), one has  to go either H-1 or make use
   of Bush's order like original posting said.

Q: Most people I know of have suggested that we should try our best not to
   fall out of status.  If we do, there won't be any problem

A: I am one of  the "most people" too (though not very strong :-), you can
   see this from the  original posting itself (the  last paragraph of  the
   conversation).  However, as INS letter suggests (see original posting),
   there should be NO problem for any PRC national who falls out of status
   to switch to  any other nonimmigrant  or immigrant status  at ANY  TIME
   before January 1, 1994, providing that Bush won't suspend his offer and
   the person concerned was ONCE in lawful status between June 5, 1989 and
   April 11, 1990.

Q: if we  can get  PR before  1/1/94, but  after that,  who knows  what'll
   happen.

A: No, if any  qualified PRC national switches to  H-1/F-1 from non-status
   (but  still lawful,  it's NOT a real "out  of status) BEFORE 1/1/94  or
   before Bush   suspends his offer, they  have NO PROBLEM  at all as  INS
   Letter says,  that's  what the  guy I talked with  is going to do.   In
   this way, he  is waiting for Labor Certification  (AEC) and immigration
   quota on his non-status (but still lawful until 1/1/94), then switch to
   H-1 BEFORE 1/1/94 or Bush suspends his  offer.

Q: Will a person who  falls out of  status now be sent  back to China  for
   immigration interview in the future?  INS letter does not guarantee for
   immigration adjustment in the U.S.   Going back to China for an  inter-
   view could be problem for many Chinese students.

A: As Bush's Executive Order offers, if  a Chinese who was once in  lawful
   status at any time between June 5, 1989 and April 11, 1990, he/she will
   be allowed to  maintain lawful status for the purpose  of adjustment of
   status into  any nonimmigrant and  immigrant status, no  matter whether
   he/she  keeps in lawful status afterwards,  and the INS letter does say
   that the Chinese national may  claim ANY BENEFIT under immigration laws
   if he/ she is  eligible, this offer is good up to  January 1, 1994 (The
   quote of Bush's order  and INS letter were  included in original  post-
   ing).

   So, the Chinese nationals falling into above category will not be asked
   to return to PRC  for final immigration interview if they  apply for PR
   while  staying in  the US  and have  final interview before  January 1,
   1994. If they  can switch to another non-immigration  status BEFORE Jan
   1, 1994, they'll be  able to have their final immigration  interview in
   the US as a  regular lawful alien AFTER January 1, 1994.  If they don't
   have a lawful status (the status from which one can apply for PR) AFTER
   January 1,  1994, they have  to return to  PRC or go  outside US (to  a
   third country)  for final immigration  interview since they will  be no
   longer in any lawful status.

   Certainly,  the above  discussion  is  based on  that  Bush's will  not
   suspend his  offer when he kisses PRC's ***  again, for the best inter-
   ests of the United States :-)

   Bye the  way, there are successful cases that  an alien applied for H-1
   AFTER  he  filed  his application  for  Alien  Employment Certification
   (Labor  Certification) and  got  approval  from US  INS,  but it's  not
   guaranteed that INS will not deny the application for H-1, though there
   has been an  understanding between INS  and American Immigration  Layer
   Association about  "Dual Intention" on  this matter since 1987  (only a
   mutual understanding, NO official document was filed).

   Anyway, one can make use of  this lawful non-status for a while  before
   filing H-1 and AEC to save some H-1 time, it would be safer for  anyone
   to stay  on non-status for sometime  to get work experience  (if he/she
   has no other way to  get work permit), and then switch to  H-1 and file
   ACE  shortly after getting H-1, in  this way, H-1 time (five/six years)
   could be used to maximum extent (see original posting for details).

   Finally, if a PRC  national fell out of  status BEFORE June 5,  1989 or
   AFTER April 11, 1990 (and he/she didn't have a lawful status at anytime
   between June 5, 1989 and April  11, 1990), he/she will not be  eligible
   for any adjustment of his/her status inside of US, though they can stay
   in  US until  January 1,  1994  under the  Deferred Enforced  Departure
   program offered by  Bush in the same  executive order, this  is clearly
   specified  in the  INS directive  (see  China News  Digest, US  Section
   Services, Visa Package).

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4.  A Foreign Student Advisor's Comment on Presidential Directive . . . 38
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>From: G-HEND@UMINN1.BITNET               Date: Sun, 1 Jul 90 22:11:00 EDT

     There is much confusion concerning  what status PRC Nationals covered
in the President order of April 11, 1990 can hold if they are not eligible
to  retain their  present status.  The INS  in this  district is  granting
Extended Voluntary  Departure in  such cases  and  accompanies their  I-94
marked EVD with the following statement:

     It appears  that the period of your authorized stay as a nonimmigrant
has  expired. However, the Attorney General has  directed that you be per-
mitted to remain the United States until January 1, 1994.

     You are  authorized to accept  employment in the United  States while
the directive remains in effect.  However, before you may seek employment,
you  must obtain  evidence of  employment authorization by  submitting for
I-765 without fee to this office.

     You also have the right to  apply for any benefit under the  Immigra-
tion laws for which you believe you are eligible. If you otherwise qualify
for permanent residence  or change of nonimmigrant classification and were
in a lawful  status on June 5,  1989, you may file for  adjustment to per-
manent residence or change of nonimmigrant  status as long as the Attorney
General's directive  remains in effect.  If you were an  exchange visitor,
the Attorney  General has waived  the two year foreign  residence require-
ment.  You may use  this irrevocable waiver  at any time  for an Immigrant
Visa or for adjustment  or change of nonimmigrant status up  to January 1,
1994."

     This particular  case was for  a B-1  attending a  conference in  the
United States last year. In her case she could not qualify for a Universi-
ty position  and therefore we could not petition  for an H-1. The implica-
tions are considerable as it opens up the possibility of a student leaving
F-1 status in order to work more than 20 hours while school is in session.
It also  gives us someplace to go for those scholars who have been present
longer than four years.

     I'm personally wary  of giving open advice  on NAFSANet but  since so
many persons are effected on this issue I decided to share.

Glenn Hendricks,
OIE University of Minnesota, Minneapolis.

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