From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 01:25:18 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 01:25:18 CST
Message-Id: <9311010706.AA29011@earth.geol.niu.edu>
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From: jun@geol.niu.edu (Jun Qi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: To those who are still waiting for CSPA approval . . .
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Dear friends:

October is gone. And we're still here. Along with over 10,000 other CSPAers.
Waiting. And waiting . . .

According to IFCSS's report, there are only a few visa available each day
in those Service Centers, which means a long line of people moves slowly and
you can't see its end in sight. Behind them I saw LADers, job hunters. . .
As January 1, 1994 is knocking the door, those people can run, but they
can't hide.

So we need more visa available. And chances are that IFCSS could convince
the Department of State to issue more visa to Service Centers as IFCSS
has established some sort of channel and credibility in dealing with
U.S. agencies.

So please let IFCSS know you need their help to get more visa available.
You can call em (202) 347-0017
or fax em       (202) 347-0018
or email em     ifcss@wam.umd.edu

Thank you  for your attention. Good luck!

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 08:45:04 1993
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From: huangsx@vishnu.tc.cat.com (Shaun X Huang 8-2312)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: IFCSS: poor leadship
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

	From huangsx@eds3.tc.cat.com Mon Nov  1 08:32:25 1993
	Received: by eds3.tc.cat.com (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C)
		id AA10417; Mon, 1 Nov 1993 08:31:47 -0600
	Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 08:31:47 -0600
	From: huangsx@vishnu (Shaun X Huang 8-2312)
	Message-Id: <9311011431.AA10417@eds3.tc.cat.com>
	To: huangsx@vishnu
	Status: RO
	
		Few weeks ago, I donated some money to IFCSS just as I did before.  
	If I knew the fact that the council already ordered IFCSS HQ to stop working 
	on LADs, I would NEVER donate any money to them.  Those short view guys!
	

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 10:33:58 1993
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Message-Id: <9311011629.AA06198@summit.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu>
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From: Ping Ding <ping@summit.atmos.colostate.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Final processing again and again?
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

AS a CSPAer, I got an approval notice from the Northern center
in late September which asked me to do the final processing in
local INS. I did what they wanted in the following days (actually
I have processed my I-89 since I got my receipt). Several days later,
I (maybe everybody) received a letter saying that you don't need
to do your final processing if you have done that. Last week, I got  
an I-797 again which is exact the same one with my approval notice
except the date. I am confused by these things. I have processed
my I-89 two times.
I have a friend with the same situation as mine (he also processed 

twice I-89). He went to Denver INS last week, the officer there told
him it is not necessary for him to process the third time I-89. So, 

center or local, do or do not, I wonder what's going on there?

Thanks for your comments!

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 10:54:43 1993
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From: linhia@acc.wuacc.edu (Lin Xiao-Hui)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: job-research
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

I'm looking for a job right now, someone told me there are job on-line
researchs on the computer networks either bitnet or internet, if any one
of our netters know the adrress and how to get the information, could you
please send me a message.
Any reply  and suggestion will be greatly appreciated!

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 11:04:42 1993
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Subject: Re: job-research
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

> From lads-l@spike.rice.edu Mon Nov  1 11:54:18 1993
> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 10:54:43 CST
> Reply-To: linhia@acc.wuacc.edu
> Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
> Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
> From: linhia@acc.wuacc.edu (Lin Xiao-Hui)
> To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
> Subject: job-research
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 
> Content-Length: 299
> 
> I'm looking for a job right now, someone told me there are job on-line
> researchs on the computer networks either bitnet or internet, if any one
> of our netters know the adrress and how to get the information, could you
> please send me a message.
> Any reply  and suggestion will be greatly appreciated!
> 
There are job related news groups out there. Use rn to find out.

Frank.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 11:08:56 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 11:08:56 CST
Message-Id: <9311011703.AA06291@summit.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu>
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From: Ping Ding <ping@summit.atmos.colostate.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Final processing again and again?
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

So, there must be some bugs in the Northern INS center computer  
system. Anybody majored in computer science may give them a hand. 


Begin forwarded message:

Hi there!  


Your guys are not alone.  Quite a few students including myself have 

exactly the same situation as you described.  I was told by an  
officer in
Kansas City INS that we do not need to do I-89 for the third time.

BTW, our approval notice were also from Northern Service Center.

Be patient, your GC may come to you any time.

LX


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 11:28:45 1993
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From: huangsx@vishnu.tc.cat.com (Shaun X Huang 8-2312)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Final processing
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

	From huangsx@eds3.tc.cat.com Mon Nov  1 11:22:21 1993
	Received: by eds3.tc.cat.com (5.65/Ultrix3.0-C)
		id AA11156; Mon, 1 Nov 1993 11:21:42 -0600
	Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 11:21:42 -0600
	From: huangsx@vishnu (Shaun X Huang 8-2312)
	Message-Id: <9311011721.AA11156@eds3.tc.cat.com>
	To: huangsx@vishnu
	Status: RO
	
		I had exactly situations as you did, except I processed 
	my I-89 only once when I just received the receipt.  Since I am 
	working in weekdays and the local (Chicago) INS is far away form 
	my place.  I don't have time to process the I-89 twice.  But I 
	received two conflict letters, the first one told me I don't 
	need to process and the second (very recently) one asked me to 
	process.  Should or should not I process I-89 again?    Any 
	suggestions are welcome.
	
		From this incident, It seems I were at China again and 
	dealt with a Chinese government agency. :-)
	

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 13:56:21 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 13:56:21 CST
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From: yong@netlabs.com (Yong Teng)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: News Group in public networks
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


     There are several new groups about jobs information as below.

     misc.jobs.contract:
     misc.jobs.misc:
     misc.jobs.offered:
     misc.jobs.offerred:
     misc.jobs.resumes:
     biz.jobs.offered:

   Add those lines into your .newsrc ( Assume you are using UNIX machine), and

   type > rn 

   rn is a free UNIX utility which was written by one of our senior engineer

   larry wall.


   There are several news groups such as ba.jobs.offered: which is about jobs
   in Bay Area ( Sillicn Valley in Northern California).


  yong

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 14:01:41 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 14:01:41 CST
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.2.752183727.fjiang@hsc.usc.edu>
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From: Feng Jiang <fjiang@hsc.usc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: RE: Job search
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


  I know there are news group relating to job search and distribute resumes.

  Try search news group .job or .resume


  Good luck for your job search


  PS: I know a computer engineering LCer got job, and is applying the 


  labor cert. now

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 15:56:02 1993
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From: <ZXY2@psuvm.psu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Visa to Honghong
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Thank many netters who provided information about visa to honghong
for Chinese citizen.  I have received more than two dozens reply.
The funny thing is, there are almost no exactly same answers...

for those who may interest in it, here is the summary:

1. Absolutely chinese citizen can enter hongkong when he/she go to
   aboard or go back home without a British visa.
2. you may stay there 1 day/3days/7days ... different anwsers.
3. you need/need not air/ship ticket to china (when you go back home)
   answers vary.
4. some netter suggest you must be a PR. (?)
5. some netter says that you only can stay in airport and wait for transfer
   airline(Guo4 Jin4).

although some netter think a visa is necessary, but it may be incorrect
as some other netters pointed out that People's Daily some time ago had
given a brief news on this issue.

I never thought that I could have so many different answers :-)

Thank you everybody!

--ZY

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 16:21:24 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 16:21:24 CST
Message-Id: <9311012217.AA07759@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Final processing again and again?
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Just do whatever the INS wants you to do to satisfy them...In hope to get 
your GC superfast!

Mi Mi Sr.

   Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 10:37:55 CST
   Reply-To: ping@summit.atmos.colostate.edu
   Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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   From: Ping Ding <ping@summit.atmos.colostate.edu>
   X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
   X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   AS a CSPAer, I got an approval notice from the Northern center
   in late September which asked me to do the final processing in
   local INS. I did what they wanted in the following days (actually
   I have processed my I-89 since I got my receipt). Several days later,
   I (maybe everybody) received a letter saying that you don't need
   to do your final processing if you have done that. Last week, I got  
   an I-797 again which is exact the same one with my approval notice
   except the date. I am confused by these things. I have processed
   my I-89 two times.
   I have a friend with the same situation as mine (he also processed 

   twice I-89). He went to Denver INS last week, the officer there told
   him it is not necessary for him to process the third time I-89. So, 

   center or local, do or do not, I wonder what's going on there?

   Thanks for your comments!


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 16:37:48 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [A80513F%MSUMUSIC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU: "CiVil war" ?]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:        Sun, 31 Oct 93 13:23:17 CST
>From: A80513F <A80513F%MSUMUSIC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
To: <hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: "CiVil war" ?

If we don't account for these Chinese (I mean Chinese here only came
from the mainland) who came the U.S. early and had got their GC before
this year, the Chinese could be divided into four goups:
principals, LADS, LCS, and undocumentes. The current situation seems
like:

              Principals are happy. (although not everyone is happy)
LADS worry.  LCS angry.  Undocuments are in hurry.

There are also struggles among the groups. IFCSS, which should be the
HQ of all Chinese students, now becomes the LC's HQ. Pricipals don't need
anyone to take care of them since the U.S. government has done. LADS have a
"single commander", Mi Mi Sr, to yell for them. (I do not mean that I
don't respect Mi Mi.) Besides, there is also a 'unite front' between 
principals and LADS since they are husbands and wives, or wives and
husbands. As for undocuments, it is said that Dr. Zhao is taking care
for them; plus so many Chinese layers, I am sure. It is no wonder for each
group to struggle for their own profits. Someone even want to sacrifice other
groups to get theirs.

How people will think? Funny?! Chinese tradition?!

Is it the time for us to stop the "struggle"? No matter if we stay here or
go back China; no matter if we serve the new country or our matherland, we
are still a group of people who have the common background. If we cann't
respect ourselves, who will? You have the right to struggle for your
profit, but don't hurt other people, especially your brothers and
sisters. You can make any legal action but don't base the action on the
sacrifice of other people's profits. Please. Does IFCSS, the HQ of all
Chinese students, need to be checked by its councils now?

We need more information to help each others rather than struggles.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 16:54:45 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA05637); Mon, 1 Nov 93 16:54:45 CST
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 16:54:45 CST
Message-Id: <9311012251.AA07800@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Visa to Honghong
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 15:59:52 CST
   Reply-To: ZXY2@psuvm.psu.edu
   Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
   Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
   Precedence: bulk
   From: <ZXY2@psuvm.psu.edu>
   X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
   X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Thank many netters who provided information about visa to honghong
   for Chinese citizen.  I have received more than two dozens reply.
   The funny thing is, there are almost no exactly same answers...

   for those who may interest in it, here is the summary:

   1. Absolutely chinese citizen can enter hongkong when he/she go to
      aboard or go back home without a British visa.
   2. you may stay there 1 day/3days/7days ... different anwsers.
   3. you need/need not air/ship ticket to china (when you go back home)
      answers vary.
   4. some netter suggest you must be a PR. (?)
   5. some netter says that you only can stay in airport and wait for transfer
      airline(Guo4 Jin4).

   although some netter think a visa is necessary, but it may be incorrect
   as some other netters pointed out that People's Daily some time ago had
   given a brief news on this issue.

   I never thought that I could have so many different answers :-)

   Thank you everybody!

   --ZY

Why don't you call British Consulate General, Visa Office & Passport 
Enguiries at (212)-745-0202, that should give you a UNIQUE and AUTHORIZED
answer!


Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
% Post at lads@lucerne.rice.edu                               %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ subdirectory     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 17:10:24 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA05725); Mon, 1 Nov 93 17:10:24 CST
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 17:10:24 CST
Message-Id: <9311012306.AA07813@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [hua7291: ]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


A very good suggestion, if you can not get the job you are looking for:

Blame CSPA, if you are not a CSPAer,
Blame PRers, if you have not got your CSPA GC;
Blame US citizens, if you are only a PR;
Blame the weather... if you are a US citizen!

Please, never blame yourself!

In America, people call this kind of guys as crying baby.

Well, in Chinese, we say "Crying baby gets more milk!"

Mi Mi Sr.

Frank wrote:

   I am very surprised to see how LCers blame their lack of luck to CSPA. 
   Maybe I should tell them the story how I got my job.  It took me nearly 
   one year to get the job. I had many interviews.  Most of time the 
   interviewers smiled and made you feel you were going to be hired. 
   But then what...?

   Frank




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  1 17:18:50 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 17:18:50 CST
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Change of resident status at CUNY 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


I just went to Registra Office at Graduate Center. 

Fill out a Change Resident Status Form, provide telephone bills, bank 
statements, W-2 forms (all from both this year and last year, with the 
name and addresses shown), the original approval notice for CSPA PR,
as the evidence of residing in New York State for the last year
and it is all set. 

I was told I will get my out-of-state tuition refund after the change of
residency gets through the computer system.

Just for your information.

Mi Mi Sr.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 07:57:05 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA01761); Tue, 2 Nov 93 07:57:05 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 07:57:05 CST
Message-Id: <01H4U1GS0OG21HOUQ7@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU>
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From: laic@acfcluster.nyu.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: RESPONSE FROM IFCSS HQ
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Hi! Netters:

I sent an E-mail to IFCSS HQ yestoday (thanks for the guy who post the
IFCSS' E-mail address on the net) concerning the visa number issue and get
thire response pretty quick.  Following is what I sent and the IFCSS'
responce:

<><><><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><>><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><<<

IFCSS HQ:

I am a CSPA who filed the I-485 at July 2nd and still waiting for the
approval notice and I have two LADs filed I-485 and waiting for that.

Acoording to your report, There are only a few visa number available each
day for CSPA applicant after Sep. 30. Please be aware that there still
about 10,000 CSPAs waiting in this line, not to mention their LADs.  I
understand that you did a lot on the CSPA issue and appreciate it very
much, therefore, you should not stop untill all CSPA related problems are
solved.  I do think you should pay more attention on this issue and
convinve the Department of State to release more visa number for CSPA and
speed this process up.

Thank you very much for you attention.

CL
P.S:  Here is another message from a fellow student:

_From: <wjfang@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> 10-27-93
 
Today's IFCSS Update on CSPA upset me quite a bit. I am one of the unfortune
applicants who have not received the approval notice yet. According tothe
Immigration Visa Control Report of the State Department, the available visa
number has dropped significantly after October 1. There are still about
10,000 students haven't got their approval. It seems that some of us may
need to wait more than a year at this issuing rate.  That make me
particularly sad since I am looking for a job right now. I think IFCSS HQ
should react to the State Department regarding to the visa control change to
CSCP applicants after Oct.1. It makes no sense to change the visa control
policy so dramatically. I filed my application before July 1. However my
application has been delayed due to numerous small problems. Since I don't
have E-mail address of IFCSS, I ask your favor to forward this message to
IFCSS HQ. Also I like to let the CSS community to know that there are still
many people who are eagerly waiting for the approval through CND. Thank you
in advance. Truely, Wayne Fang.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESPONCE OF IFCSS:
 
>From: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: RE: IFCSS' Update
To: laic@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU
Message-id: <199311011738.AA21303@rac4.wam.umd.edu>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
1-NOV-1993 12:45:57.33                                  NEWMAIL

Thank you for your suggestions.
The HQ is working on it.

Huang Songyun
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

END OF MESSAGE


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 12:39:20 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02121); Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:39:20 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:39:20 CST
Message-Id: <01H4U9VN2M8A8Y5268@UMAECS>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: DLI@ecs.umass.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: we are waiting for the approval!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


To these concerned netters:
    I am one of these who are still waiting for the CSPA approval and one
with the LAD family member. Here in the UMass Amherst area, we still have
a few people anxiously waiting for our approval notice. What makes us
anxious is that all of us who had not gotton approved by the end of
September are still waiting, without single one (as far as I know) being
notified of approval since the beginning of October. If, as estamted by
the IFCSS Update, only a few visas are issued every day, I guess the
waiting can be long.
    I also sent a e-mail to IFCSS HQ. I don't know if IFCSS is working
on that, though it may, according to its e-mail reply to one of our netter. 
My doubt about IFCSS's willingness in continuing working on CSPA came
after I read the IFCSS weekly report in which you only see very little
effort spent on CSPA during the period of October. Nevertheless, I still
urge these concerned netters to call, fax, or e-mail IFCSS to express
our concerns. There are still 20 percent of the total CSPA applicants
waiting for the approval, not to mention these LAD family members
depending upon the principal's approval.
   D. LI       11/2/93


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 12:43:23 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02162); Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:43:23 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:43:23 CST
Message-Id: <9311021839.AA08357@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [lads-l@spike.rice.edu: Error Condition Re: Undocumented Chinese]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


It is reported by WJ that the Sino-U.S co-operation has successfuly stopped
the influx of Undocumented Chinese, at least for the time being. A good news
for lcs.

Cheers!

Mi Mi Sr.

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% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
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From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 12:54:38 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02228); Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:54:38 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 12:54:38 CST
Message-Id: <9311021850.AA08375@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Over-90-day CSPAers, Attention Please!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


I just heard in one case, a lady who had been stayed in China for 102 days
got her case approved by the Eastern Center. She is a very close friend
of my officemate, so it IS NOT a hear say story.

The lady worked for a American trading company. When she was sent to China
for bussiness, she got sick and was hospitalized. She got statement from that
hospital for that matter. Her caompany went so far to write a letter stating
her case and how much she had helped the company to make during that trip.
And she is approved!

While Mi Mi Sr. does not think everyone has to be in the same situation 
to be approved, he does believe it really matters how you present yourself
well. There are holes in that 90-day-rule, and you must get prepared to 
puncture one good hole for you to get through.


Good Luck, 90-dayers!

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
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%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 13:02:07 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02286); Tue, 2 Nov 93 13:02:07 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 13:02:07 CST
Message-Id: <23110212580006@neurophys.wisc.edu>
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From: CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Computer Science guy
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

It's old issue but I did not have time to follow it at that time.  Maybe it
is not too boring to bring it aup gain.

I am sorry for the poor guy who did not find a job, but I'd like him/her and
other LCs ask themselves the following questions:

1. Total number of CSPA applicats: 50000+
   Among them, how many are students (who are working on a degree?
   What's the percentage of people who chose computer science? (Please note
	many of our ECs are not smart enough to choose CS at the beginning,
	because most of them were still preparing to go back)
   Then what's the number of EC graduates of computer science who are competing
	with the poor guy?

2. Apple recently laid off 2000+, are these people going to heaven? or to hell?

3. How many foreign students of computer science are there in this country? 
   What's the percentage of Chinese amony them?  Are those Indian students,
   with English as mother tone or semi-mother tone, and who traditionally
   dominate the CS market among foreign students, going to give up in 
   the competition?

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 14:47:10 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02518); Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:47:10 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 14:47:10 CST
Message-Id: <9311022040.AA10445@weber.eecs.ukans.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: Yiyuan Liu <yliu@eecs.ukans.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Transfer
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi, there:
  Does anyone have the experience of transferring to another university
while his/her application to change status is pending?  If so, did you
transfer as an F-1 student or some other status?
  Any suggestion or comments will be appreciated.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 15:40:15 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02621); Tue, 2 Nov 93 15:40:15 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 15:40:15 CST
Message-Id: <9311022136.AA04671@earth.geol.niu.edu>
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From: jun@geol.niu.edu (Jun Qi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Dear Mi Mi Sr.:

Your good news about Sino-U.S. co-operation in stopping the influx of 
undocumented Chinese is reported by WJ, which is a Chinese publication,
right? I doubt we could find any good news of this kind in an English
newspaper, magazine, or TV news report.

A couple weeks ago I posted a mail on LADNET regarding CNN serial reports
exclusively on illegal Chinese immigrants because I was shocked by the
extreme hostile tone of the CNN reporters. I was told by CND (again a
Chinese magzine) that Beijing sent some of those snakeheads to hell
(the government killed the hell of those snakeheads, literally). However,
an expert invited by CNN for that show told the audience in a mystery
tone the following things:

        "If I (as the so-called snakehead) smuggle illegals in this
     country, I have to be put in jail for at least 6 (or 60?) years.
     But if I did this in China, I only gotta stay in jail for 6 months.
     The profit is huge. And if you wanna do it, where it would be?"

And he said the same thing several times through the show and several
other reporters appeared all mad and told different stories of their
own in all angery tones.

Why can we find good news in American Chinese magazines but not American
English media? Misinformed? Misunderstanding? Miscommunicating? My point
here is not to find new enemy to fight, but we gotta be aware of the need
for better communicating with the society. Be part of the system. 
Let our voice heard. It seems to me that if there is some kind of threat
out there, that's not from the LCers, but from anti-immigrants and
anti-foreigner sentiment.

I believe the Chinese community is poorly involved in all aspects of
American life: political, social, professional. . . Without being able 
to express ourselves in this country, we won't succeed in America.

Thanks to Mi Mi Sr.'s mail, which reminds me of all these words I wanted
to pass to my fellow country men long time ago. I used to hate you guys.
But now I love you. All of you!

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 16:27:37 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02750); Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:27:37 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 16:27:37 CST
Message-Id: <9311022223.AA08591@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [NLUO@msvax.mssm.edu: FWD: 3 replies on tuition status of CSPA recipients]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:         Tue, 2 Nov 1993 15:36:22 -0500
Reply-To: NLUO@msvax.mssm.edu
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: NLUO@msvax.mssm.edu
Subject:      FWD: 3 replies on tuition status of CSPA recipients
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Dear China-Net readers,

        We have received several replies to the inquiry posted on China-Net
on Oct 29 about the tuition status of CSPA recipients.  In general, we request
that the replies be sent directly to the original author.  However, since the
information contained in these replies may be of general interest, the replies
are posted to China-Net.  We appreciate the informative responses sent to us.

                                              China-Net Management Committee
                                              net-cord@ifcss.org

------------ message (1) ----------------------------------------------------
>From:   IN%"PUT3%UCONNVM.bitnet@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu"  "Yuhang Rong" 29-OCT-1993
12:21:05.55
To:     IN%"NLUO@msvax.mssm.edu"  "Yuhang Rong"
Subj:   RE: FWD: CSPA recipient-resident student status

Each state has different policies regarding resident status, regardless if you
are U.S. citizen/PR or not.  IF you become a Permenant Resident, you still need
 to satisfy the residency requirement of the state you reside.  If you don't me
et the requirement (usually one or two years after you obtain your PR), you wil
l not be qualified for resident fee status.  Again, it is important to check yo
ur institution's residency requirement at the registrar's office.

YUHANG RONG
DEPARTMENT OF RESIDENTIAL LIFE
UNIVERSITY OF CONNECTICUT
------------ message (2) ----------------------------------------------------
>From:   IN%"JI5BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"  "David Zhang" 29-OCT-1993 21:35:10.23
To:     IN%"nluo@msvax.mssm.edu"  "CSPA Brothers"
Subj:   In-state tuition's legal ground

I just recived your request this friday afternoon.   Because my school's libera
ry was closed, I will have to give you a complete response on the comming Monda
y.    This time, I just give you some tip of the story, so that you guys could
have a happy weekend.

"Legal Bases" is not the fucking laws we normally worried, instead those were
the supreme court of United States' ruling.   In 1973, the court set up the gui
ldlines for colleges' policy in determing the in-state tuition.   In 1983, the
court set the guild lines for Aliens who used to hold temperary visa.   All the
 above court ruling were very good for the CSPA brothers,  but the technical
 procedure to achieve our goal is very complex.

We must warn the college to be sued if they did not give us the in-state tuitio
n, at the sametime, give the school a copy of the court ruling.   They will sur
roud in the end.

I will send you the reference of the court ruling on the coming Monday,  and if
 you were interested in talking to me live, I will call you when you give me yo
ur number.

I am very happy to do it, because I did it.        Good Luck.
------------ message (3) ----------------------------------------------------
>From:   IN%"JI5BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"  "David Zhang"  1-NOV-1993 14:23:17.59
To:     IN%"nluo@msvax.mssm.edu"  "My frined"
Subj:   In-State tuition

In 1982, the U.S.Supeine Court ruled in Toll v. Moreno that certain aliens shou
ld be able to pay in-stat tuition.     Also in 1973, in Vlandis v. Kline, the c
ourt set up the guildline on the issue.     Please check the two cases in your
liberary, then dicide the way to approch the sulation.
No law said the CSPAer shall have the in-state tuition,  we have to fight for t
he equal rights.  If the college did not agree, we shall find a civil rights la
wer to sue the college, and the fee will be paid by the college after the  winn
ing.
I got my in-state tuition from CUNY, after I promised to sue the college if the
y did give it to me.

==================== Original posting ======================================
>From:   MSVAX::NLUO         29-OCT-1993 10:35:48.72
To:     IN%"china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu"
CC:     NLUO
Subj:   FWD: CSPA recipient-resident student status

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message is forwarded to China-Net for your information.  Please direct
all you inquiries and comments to the original sender whose address could be
found in the header of the message.  Thank you.

                                              China-Net Management Committee
                                              net-cord@ifcss.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From:   IN%"DAC023%MARSHALL.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu" 28-OCT-1993 10:13:08.37
To:     IN%"CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu"
Subj:   CSPA recipient-resident student status

     Based on the information of the net, many CSPA recipients have also
successfully had their resident student status declared by their school
authorities for fee purpose, while many others like me still struggling
with our school authorities on this issue. It seems like that different
school at different state has different policies toward this issue.
Is there anyone know the legal bases for CSPA recipients to have their
resident student status declared by their school authorities?
Or the detailed procedure to claim for resident student status?
     Your information and help would be deeply appreciated.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 19:32:45 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA03304); Tue, 2 Nov 93 19:32:45 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 19:32:45 CST
Message-Id: <27577943@um.cc.umich.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: xy.zhou@um.cc.umich.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: xy.zhou@um.cc.umich.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: misc
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

  One of my friends who filed at the end of July or even early
August got her approval notice from the Northern Service Center
in mid-October.
  Mi Mi Sir sent out a message about the illigal Chinese immigrants,
and I have also seen the same from CND news today.  I do not
understand the rational behind the statement that that is a good
news for lcs.
  Several messages have referred "our sisters and brothers" and
asked us not to hurt them.  It seems to me that those messages
are referring to lcs.  Are the undocumented Chinese our "sisters
and brothers"?  I donot understand why we should hurt those who
has the potential to benefit from CSPA for no immediate reasons.
Some also argued that fake documents made the situation worse, and
I think INS understand this issue better than all of us.  In
principle, I am not against all the pledges that illigal immigrants
should be stopped.  But in practice, I agree with "jun@..." that
systematic and selected inforcement against Chinese is emotionally
acceptable.
X. Zhou

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  2 22:29:38 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA03832); Tue, 2 Nov 93 22:29:38 CST
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 22:29:38 CST
Message-Id: <9311030425.AA08757@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: misc
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


   Date: Tue, 2 Nov 93 19:35:53 CST
   Reply-To: xy.zhou@um.cc.umich.edu
   Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
   Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
   Precedence: bulk
   From: xy.zhou@um.cc.umich.edu
   X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
   X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

     One of my friends who filed at the end of July or even early
   August got her approval notice from the Northern Service Center
   in mid-October.
     Mi Mi Sir sent out a message about the illigal Chinese immigrants,
   and I have also seen the same from CND news today.  I do not
   understand the rational behind the statement that that is a good
   news for lcs.
     Several messages have referred "our sisters and brothers" and
   asked us not to hurt them.  It seems to me that those messages
   are referring to lcs.  Are the undocumented Chinese our "sisters
   and brothers"?  I donot understand why we should hurt those who
   has the potential to benefit from CSPA for no immediate reasons.
   Some also argued that fake documents made the situation worse, and
   I think INS understand this issue better than all of us.  In
   principle, I am not against all the pledges that illigal immigrants
   should be stopped.  But in practice, I agree with "jun@..." that
   systematic and selected inforcement against Chinese is emotionally
   acceptable.
   X. Zhou

I am not against illigal Chinese immigrants, but LCs are. illigal Chinese
immigrants' lads will take up EB-3 and FB-2 in China's quota, that is why
lcs are against it. 

I am pro-Chinese immigrants. CNN is discriminative towards illigal Chinese
immigrants. We should do something about it, but how?

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
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% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov  3 10:14:40 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA05547); Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:14:40 CST
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:14:40 CST
Message-Id: <9311031610.AA06393@earth.geol.niu.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: jun@geol.niu.edu (Jun Qi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Dear friends:

Everybody is entitled to have his or her own point of view. Please don't
get personal. For me, I'm against all kinds of illegal things in general.

I think Mi Mi Sr. has been doing a great job in leading the petition drive,
which is a very good efforts to have our voice heard. For now, most of us
are still worrying about PR, LAD, job . . . Threats from other groups may
make our life harder.

One of our LAD netter posted an article regarding CNN report on CND two
weeks ago, which makes more friends realize the problem. I wish we can
make more friends and let more American people understand us, instead of
guided by some biased groups. According to CND HXWZ, an American native
kid got yelled by other kids in Canada: "go back to China!" The child 
complained: "I'm not a Chinese. My folks came here earlier than anybody
else."

It's sad to see there're fights among ourselves. I hope we can share 
information and concerns here, not fire.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov  3 10:29:32 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:29:32 CST
Message-Id: <9311031626.AA28333@bach.convex.com>
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From: guo@bach.convex.com (Yi Guo)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: over-90 day processing info wanted here
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Maybe some netters got my phone number from my signature, I got 
a call from one guy who was referred to me for his CSPA case.
He stayed in China over 90 days, so you know the problem.  As I had
told him I am not a lawyer nor my knowledge in this matter is qualified
to be trusted for suggestions.  Nevertheless, I would like to help the
guy by passing the net info on this to him.  Anyone in the same shoe
please update the situation regarding this on the net.

   Also, for the friend who referred me to that guy (Mr. Wang), I thank
you very much for your confidence and trust in me.  But since I am indeed
no authority to make suggestions other than passing along info, I hope
you can let me know if you will do this simple task for your friend, which
saves my long distance fees (to South Carolina) as well as the hassle of
catching the guy if he is at home or free at work in the restaurant.  

   Thanks!

   - Jimmy

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov  3 20:52:01 1993
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From: Yangru Wu <yawu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
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Subject: I need your help--Urgent
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi, Firends,
    I got a letter from Cincinnati INS, asking my son--a LAD for an interview. 
As I understand the letter, my son must go at the specified date and time with 
the principal alien. While both my husband and I are covered by CSPA and we got
the approvals, we use my husband as the principal to file the application for
our son. My husband is currently visiting a foreign university for a project 
and he will not be able to come on that date of the interview. I would like to 
know if our son can go with me, not my husband to go for an interview. If not 
possible, can I ask an INS official to reschedule another interview? The letter
from INS says if my son fails to appear on that date, the application will be
cancelled automatically and we are very concerned about that. Does anyone have
a similar experience before? What's the best way to solve the problem. We
eagerly await your sugguestions. Thanks a lot.    Wei.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 08:55:03 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [ZHOU@EDDIE.YORKCOL.EDU: RE: misc]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
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Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:36:21 -0500 (EST)
>From: ZHOU@EDDIE.YORKCOL.EDU
To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Subject: RE: misc

Dear Mi Mi Sr:

Could you help post the following message?  Thanks.

My wife who is a "victim" of the 90-day-rule got her work permit today.  She
could apply for adjustment of status as a CSPA principal due to the obove 
reason.  However, as a spouse of a CSPA principal, she applied for adjustment
of status as a derivative family member of a CSPA beneficiary.  The notice she
receives has a alien number attached.  There is no mention as to the status of
her application as derivatiave family member applying under EB-3, nor any other
mention concering her legal status after 1/1/94 when her current legal status
expires.  The Philadelphia INS is certainly the most efficient INS in the
nation, to put it mildly, and has literally no one to answer your question
other than telling you to wait...

I am letting my fellow netters know this for two reasons.  1) Anyone in the
similiar situation has a chance to get at least a work permit from the INS. 
This at least provides a grace period and lawful status while your application
for GC is still pending.  2) I would appreciate anyone's insider's
interpretation and analysis of this situation, and would be happy to answer any
question regarding how we got to where we are as "violators" of one of the most
preposterous law passed by the Congress.




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 09:00:20 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [shen@linguist.umass.edu: Seminar on Green Card Issues at MIT (fwd)]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
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Date:         Wed, 3 Nov 1993 23:48:07 -0500
Reply-To: "Tong SHEN ~{IrM,~}" <shen@linguist.umass.edu>
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: "Tong SHEN ~{IrM,~}" <shen@linguist.umass.edu>
Subject:      Seminar on Green Card Issues at MIT (fwd)
Comments: To: China-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From:   IN%"yang@media.mit.edu"  "x.y."  3-NOV-1993 17:14:58.44
Subj:   please forward ...

========================================
please forward the following announcement
=========================================

                Seminar on Green Card Issues by Immigration Lawyer
         at Massachusettes Institute of Technology (MIT)
                    4:30pm  Friday Nov. 5. 1993

MIT CAST is hosting a seminar on the legal issues related to CSPA.  The
speaker is Mr. Steven A.Clark, one of the most prominent immigration lawyers in
New England.

Time:   Nov 5, Friday 4:30pm
Place:  MIT 4-270
Topics: 1)What are the tax laws green card holder should follow?
        2)How to obtain US citizenship and how long does it take?
        3)How do our family members obtain their green cards?
        4)How do traveling or working abroad effecting our citizenship?
        5)What are the opportunities for non-green card holders who wish to
        obtain their US permanent residency?
        6)Please bring your questions.

Welcome all concerned Chinese students from either Boston Univ, Harvard,
MIT, Northeastern Univ, U. of Mass, and other universities or companies
in the Boston area or neighbor to attend this seminar.

This event is co-sponsored by MIT Chinese Association
of Science and Technology (MIT CAST), MIT Chinese Student Scolar Association
and Chinese Internaional Youth Associaiton.


===============================================================
end of the announcement
===============================================================


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 09:08:13 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
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X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi, Yonghong, Would you pleas attend the meeting and get some infor for us
Thanx!
Mi Mi Sr.
=====================================================================
Subject: [EZ003273@MIZAR.UCDAVIS.EDU: Re: Seminar on CSPA issue]

Date:         Thu, 4 Nov 1993 00:24:08 -0800
Reply-To: EZ003273@MIZAR.UCDAVIS.EDU
Sender: Newsletter on Chinese Community <CCNL@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>
>From: EZ003273@MIZAR.UCDAVIS.EDU
Subject:      Re: Seminar on CSPA issue
Comments: To: ccnl@utarlvm1.uta.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNL <CCNL@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>

Hi, MIT friends,

Could anyone of you be kindly post the answer to those questions to the net?
Thanks a lot!

Jay


====================================================================
                Seminar on Green Card Issues by Immigration Lawyer
         at Massachusettes Institute of Technology (MIT)
                    4:30pm  Friday Nov. 5. 1993

MIT CAST is hosting a seminar on the legal issues related to CSPA.  The
speaker is Mr. Steven A.Clark, one of the most prominent immigration lawyers in
New England.

Time:   Nov 5, Friday 4:30pm
Place:  MIT 4-270
Topics: 1)What are the tax laws green card holder should follow?
        2)How to obtain US citizenship and how long does it take?
        3)How do our family members obtain their green cards?
        4)How do traveling or working abroad effecting our citizenship?
        5)What are the opportunities for non-green card holders who wish to
        obtain their US permanent residency?
        6)Please bring your questions.
=========================================================================


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 09:12:01 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
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X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 23:09:45 -0500 (EST)
>From: ****@******.YORKCOL.EDU
To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Subject: Illegal Chinese

Dear Mi Mi Sr:

Just want to let you know that I am glad you have clarified your position on
the so called "good news about the stopage of the undocumnented Chinese" as a
result of a new Sino-American agreement.  Frankly, I saw no correlation between
the newly arrived and future undocumented Chinese as they won't be eligible for
CSPA, not to mention their lads.  This is way too far-fetched!  LCers or anyone
in legal status here should have no reason to worry about confict of interest.  

As a Chinese, I do not want undocumented Chinese to come anymore, not because I
don't believe they have a reason to come, but because I don't have the heart to
see them coming under illusions and then face a life with little future and 
hope.   Let's face it--the American public don't like non-white
immigrants,legal or illegal, the Chinese  community in the U.S. itself has 
{shown them cold shoulders, Chinese media such as the
notorious tabloid World Journal spares no effort to put them down, national 
organizations such as IFCSS has taken a detached position on this issue.  
The undocumeted Chinese don't have the  right skills and any command of the 
English langauge to make it here.  It breaks my heart to see some of the jailed
undocumented Chinese in shackles and be subjected to solitary confinement in 
several prisons in the U.S.  The fact that one of the six fires in Southern
California was supposedly started by a Chinese refugee who felt so cold that he
had to start a fire to stay warm indicates that these guys are simply being
abandoned by the society, Chinese and otherwise, so that they have to live a
life like the homeless people in America.  And we all know very well that
Chinese people are not addicted to welfare and depending on other people's
handout.   If their lives in the U.S. are not better than when at home, why the
bother, the risk, the humiliation, the worry of their loved ones at home, the
fear for deportations and a sad fate in the future.  They don't have to take
that crap!!!

The above is my two cents.  If you care to post this, please keep my address 
anonymous if at all possible.  Thanks.  


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 10:48:14 1993
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From: Ping Ding <ping@summit.atmos.colostate.edu>
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Subject: need your help!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi, is there anybody who sent baby back
to china more than one year? I am going to send
my two year old son back to china. I have got
a travel permit for him from one chinese consulate
but it is effective for one year. I don't think we
capable to get him back in one year. Does anybody
has this kind of experience? Your information will
be very helpful?

Thanks very much!

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 10:52:50 1993
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

> From lads-l@spike.rice.edu Thu Nov  4 10:11:31 1993
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:12:01 CST
> Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
> Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
> Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
> Dear Mi Mi Sr:
> 
> As a Chinese, I do not want undocumented Chinese to come anymore, not because I
> don't believe they have a reason to come, but because I don't have the heart to
> see them coming under illusions and then face a life with little future and

I don't agree they come under illusions.  Their expectation may be too high, but
that is all. America surely provides much more opportunities to them than 
China does.  This is not a illusion.  Their future is by no means dark. Let's 
look at some facts:

The human smuggling began in early 1980. Most of those once-undocumented Chinese
who came before mid-1980s have secured greedcards and set up their own businesses. But many of those with high education and good language efficiency are still 
struggling for surviving.  Many of them walked through the path of MS-PHD-PostDoc but don't know where to go now. Ironically quite a number of these highly 
educated people go to run restraustants.  They are all winners, but who are the
bigger winners?  Who change their lives more? Most of these undocumented 
Chinese were farmers, the lowest class in China.  But if they return in a few 
years, they will be highly respected by CCP.

 
> hope.   Let's face it--the American public don't like non-white
> immigrants,legal or illegal, the Chinese  community in the U.S. itself has 
> {shown them cold shoulders, Chinese media such as the

To live in America, we don't need the white to like us.  We are not guests, we
are SEEKERS.  People only like guests.

>The fact that one of the six fires in Southern
> California was supposedly started by a Chinese refugee who felt so cold that he
> had to start a fire to stay warm indicates that these guys are simply being
> abandoned by the society, Chinese and otherwise, so that they have to live a
> life like the homeless people in America.  And we all know very well that
> Chinese people are not addicted to welfare and depending on other people's
> handout.   If their lives in the U.S. are not better than when at home, why the
> bother, the risk, the humiliation, the worry of their loved ones at home, the
> fear for deportations and a sad fate in the future.  They don't have to take
> that crap!!!

Don't worry about those Chinese immigrants who did not succeed and who are abandoned.  Don't feel upset that it is a Chinese homeless immigrant who caused the 
fire.  In NewYork, thousands of homelessness cost millions of dollars of taxer
payer's money every year.  There is no need to feel shameful if some Chinese guys do sth terrible to the society.  There is no any race of which every 
individual is perfect and successful. We are the victims of the stereotype of 
Asian immigrants. 
> 
> The above is my two cents.  If you care to post this, please keep my address 
> anonymous if at all possible.  Thanks.  
> 
> 


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 12:54:27 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Undocumented Chinese and CSPA
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Recently there are several arcticles appeared on the net regarding the 
undocumented Chinese. Well, when I saw the images of Golden Venture
went ashore with  all those familiar Chinese figures in the underware,
I was shocked, not only the fact that they made here, but also the 
will which brought them here. It is very clear that I am against the human
smuggling, there is no doubt about it. But at the same time, I must say
I admire there determination to make that trip. 

America is a land of opportunity, a land of freedom. If you look at the 
very begining of this nation, who, legalized the passengers of the May 
Flower? A group of self-smuggled people, THAT IS ALL. If you go to the Elis
Island in NEW York Harbor, you will encounter all those images of 
newly arrived immigrants, tired, poor, ill-educated, in no way supperior
to anyone else. Just human beings! The very common thing we share, IS
the strong willingness to seek a better life, the freedom, the opportunity.
Which, our undocument fellow Chinese have, probably more, than many of us.

Maybe, we should ask ourselves, what makes this nation great? A handful
of educated elite? professors? politicians? No! before Einstain came to
the shore, the nation was great already. Who made this nation great? 
All of those who came earlier, with much less education, but with much
stronger willingness to seek a better life. 

Sometimes I just wonder if we are thinking the proper way. We used to
admire this great nation, and think the only best guys deserve to come 
here? By our definition, that the most qualified people for this nation
are higher degree seekers? No, I do not think so. Those undocumented 
Chines should HAVE THE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to emmigrant. Nothing less than
you and I. The problem is how to find the proper channel to do it. Since
they have no other choice, then they have to smuggle. I hate those 
sneakheads, but I am very sympathetic to those fellow Chinese. Please
do not be so hard on them. Just compare them with the passengers of the
May Flower, then you will think differently.

Frank is right. Many of us highly-educated degree seekers ARE supported 
by those undocuments. Mi Mi Sr.'s wife had been working in such a restuarant
to earn her tuition. Many of self-sponsored Chinese students are doing
the same way. Mi Mi Sr. had been doing so also. When many of us complained
how difficult it was to find a job, we wish there were more restaurants 
to hire us. When it comes to the point when they compete with us for green
cards, then we speak the other ways. Is that some sort of uglyness of ours?

Think of this, guys.

Mi Mi Sr.

  

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 13:08:41 1993
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X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

There were quite a few mails posted these days yelling at the poor
guy who just had his heart broken because of  losing the job offer.
I personally found these people were very insensitive if I'm not
using the Chinese saying " scatter salt on wounded palce", although
I'm a CSPAer.  I think we should learn how to comfort people when
they are in tears, at least not to use those sharp, sacarstic tone.
I can almost guess these few insensitive guys enjoy to to brag their
cards in front of the LCs with some unmentionable proudness.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 13:41:33 1993
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From: guo@bach.convex.com (Yi Guo)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Insensitivity, etc.
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

SUPER230@ukcc.uky.edu wrote:
--> There were quite a few mails posted these days yelling at the poor
--> guy who just had his heart broken because of  losing the job offer.
--> I personally found these people were very insensitive if I'm not
--> using the Chinese saying " scatter salt on wounded palce", although
--> I'm a CSPAer.  I think we should learn how to comfort people when
--> they are in tears, at least not to use those sharp, sacarstic tone.

    I personally feel sorry for the guy.  But, although I didn't mention
anything that you said here, I can also understand those who might have
used "sharp, sacarstic" tone:
     1) CSPAers don't have to defend for what they get.
     2) CSPAers don't have to be blamed for what others get.
     3) CSPAers have been sort of like a scapegoat for every bad thing
        happened to those clamied LCers.
     4) The mention of "crying baby" has its ground.  Just ask any one
        who was/is in the job hunting:  How many times you didn't get
	any interview chance?  How many times you didn't get a site
	interview chance?  How many times you didn't get an offer?
	Yet, how many complaints to the public net had us seen before
	CSPA is in effect?
     5) Several posts are reasonable that they analyzed the job market 
        for EE majors, they analyzed the job market for foreigners, and
	they also pointed out it's not a good time for the whole computer
	industry.
     6) I personally think when one comes to the states, he should 
        realize he is competing with Americans, not fellow Chinese.  Just
	look at the fraction of work force for Chinese here in the states,
	why cannot one have the courage to try to challenge the whole 
	work force, not just we fellow Chinese?
     7) No one really knows the background, strength of the guy who is
        in job hunting.  The confidence he expressed that he might
	just be "an engineer in that midsized company" sounds too 
	optimistic to me.  I can also say that he hasn't been in the job
	hunting for some time, that he cannot take the rejection quite
	well yet.  (yes, it's strange why the company official know the
	CSPA, but can it just be an excuse for their policy not to hire
	foreigners? With so many laid-off high skill professionals, they
	might just pick from that pool, or they are laying off also).
    
--> I can almost guess these few insensitive guys enjoy to to brag their
--> cards in front of the LCs with some unmentionable proudness.
      
      Agree with you on the point that there is no point bragging you
are PR (just like ABC bragging they are better than non-ABC, it's stupid).
But, there is also no point shying away from the topic that I am CSPAer.
It's all natural, yes, I got the green card now.  Proudness?  no, happiness?
yes.  If you are not happy, why take the trouble applying for it?
      Can I ask those claimed LCer (I hate their claims, and I think it's
the human defficiency within those guys to brand them that way) a question:
    If your friend is a CSPAer, has the relation between you and your friend
changed a bit?  If so, who caused it?  (not for the friend that is your
special one).

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 15:52:21 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA09330); Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:52:21 CST
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 15:52:21 CST
Message-Id: <9311042148.AA00725@earth.geol.niu.edu>
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From: jun@geol.niu.edu (Jun Qi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: job hunting
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


I had an interview experience a couple of months ago and I almost forgot
about it if not so many people got excited about that LC's experience.

At first I didn't wanna go when that day came. My roommate (a white guy)
almost yelled at me and forced me to go for the interview. We are very good
friends and classmates and both got invitations from the same organization.
He didn't wanna go because the place is far away from his hometown (he is
a homeboy) and I didn't wanna go because I had to drive 3 hours. Anyway,
I went there.

So I went there and met with 3 interviewers. They were impressed I guess.
The chief of the interviewers (the guy who received the money for the 
forthcoming project) led me to see two other bosses. One of them is minority
himself, speaking English with strong accent. I sort of felt kinda tension
between the two, as they treated me differently and the guy who interviewed
me talked about that boss with some atitude. Anyway, before I left, the
interviewer told me that lots of people applied for the position and that
they only picked 5 finalists for interview. "You are the third one,"
he told me, "but we already made up our minds and we're not going to 
meet the other two candidates. I expect you to start working here late this
week ( that was a Monday) or early next week. We need quality people like
you to work for our organization."

I went home and told my roommate what I was told. He's happy and almost
helped have my stuff moved. Several days later the company told me that
I couldnot go there so soon as they were having some internal conflicts
(see, not just us who got those kinda thing). A month later, the guy who
interviewed me told me through the phone that the internal conflict was so
terrible that they couldnot hire me. Well, that's it.

Some of my American friends felt sorry for me. They say: "don't let them
put you down. There's politics. That's their loss. You'll find one . . ."
I don't wanna blame nobody for those kinda thing.

Later on, my roommate and I were interested in another company and he knew
that I got an interview with the firm. This time he didn't push me to go
get it, instead, I heard he says "fucking foreigner . . ." ha ha ha
Anyway we're still good friends. . .

Easy pal. . .

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov  4 17:57:41 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA09606); Thu, 4 Nov 93 17:57:41 CST
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 17:57:41 CST
Message-Id: <9311042354.AA00157@mines.utah.edu>
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From: asingh@mines.utah.edu (Singh)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject:   LAD faster than CSPA
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


	Today, I received a yellow/brown letter from Texas.  Naturally, I
thought it is my GC.  I opened without even looking at the name of the 
receipient.  It was really a big supprise to me.  It is my wife (LAD)'s
GC!  As a CSPA principal, I'm still waiting patiently for my GC.  

	LAD is faster than CSPA principal!  I have to say that Salt Lake
City INS is very efficient.

JLi

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov  5 02:07:39 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA11016); Fri, 5 Nov 93 02:07:39 CST
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 02:07:39 CST
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Subject: The interview at Houston INS
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

THis morning, my wife finished her interview with the INS officer. I was
requested to present at the interview. The officer check her passport,
took the medical exam form and the I-94 form before asking questions. All the
questions asked were simply for identification purpose. something usuall was
I was asked for the transcripts of the period when my wife joined me and until
now to prove that I has been a student without losing status. I was unprepared
for that , so I was requested to submit it ASAP. As for the PR, the answer is 
"I don't know when your wife will get it. She need to wait for the visa quota".
As for the question if my wife can go home and get back without trouble, the
ffier answer is " she need to apply for the Permit of Leave in order to get
back.". The all process took 15 minutes in a very friendly air.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov  5 07:43:58 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA11944); Fri, 5 Nov 93 07:43:58 CST
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 07:43:58 CST
Message-Id: <9311051340.AA10187@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [Undocumented Chinese and CSPA]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:         Thu, 4 Nov 93 20:22:47 EST
>From: 207687%UMDD.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject:      Undocumented Chinese and CSPA
In-Reply-To:  Message received on Thu, 4 Nov 93  13:55:08 EST
To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu

I completely agree with Mi Mi's understanding about immigrants. I hate
those self-claimed elite who may know no more than those immigrants. They
are coward, while golden ventureer are cowboys.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov  5 07:52:50 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12003); Fri, 5 Nov 93 07:52:50 CST
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 07:52:50 CST
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [shen@linguist.umass.edu: CSPA and tuition status]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:         Fri, 5 Nov 1993 06:06:21 -0500
Reply-To: "Tong SHEN ~{IrM,~}" <shen@linguist.umass.edu>
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: "Tong SHEN ~{IrM,~}" <shen@linguist.umass.edu>
Subject:      CSPA and tuition status
Comments: To: China-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Attached below are forwarding messages.  Please direct all your replies
to the original sender.  Thank you.

                    China-Net Management Committee (net-cord@ifcss.org)

***********************************************************************

>From:   IN%"JI5BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"  "David Zhang"  2-NOV-1993 18:03:03.97
Subject: Rush,Rush,Please post as info for in state tuition

I am very greatful for your posting my suggestions on the net,  Please add
The following technical suggestions into the net now.  Please rush:
 1) Because the Chinese people were from a police country,  some of us may
 not dare to sue the college.  Maybe it takes a year.   I hoped that someone wo
uld sue and benefit us all.   In order to sharing the winning price,  every chi
nese student who was rejected by their college after they treatened to sue,
Please write" I accept the tuition bill with reservation" on your costly
out-of-state tuition bill.   That would make you be able recover the money they
charged more after the court's furture ruling, which should be on our side.
2) Please do not show this letter to any school official, because they would
 decide to wait for the court ruling as the first opition, while safly chargin
g you the out-of-state tuition.    Let's hope one of us would standing up to su
e.
3) Please note, the working rights we CSPAer got 4 years ago is the key factor
  to estapblish our status other that students.
Please post now, please post.

*****

>From:   IN%"JI5BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"  "David Zhang"  3-NOV-1993 01:09:59.80
Subject: RE: Rush,Rush,Please post as info for in state tuition
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 02 Nov 1993 18:37:04 -0500 (EST)
To: NLUO@msvax.mssm.edu
Message-id: <01H4UZMKI3DU00526T@msvax.mssm.edu>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

1) "Charged more" , the extra money you have to pay for out-of-stat tuition.
    When your public college refused to offer you the in-state tuition,  you
    should be smart enough to pay the whole bill, the out-of state tuition.
    So the words "charged more" means the defference between out of state tuiti
on and the in-stat tuition.ou wrIn the Business Law, when we   put the words
   like "with reservation" or "under protest" into the bill before paying for
   it,  we reserved the rights to sue in the future.    When one of our hero wo
n the battle with the college in court, everyone could bring their paid tuition
  bill with "with reservation" on it , to their own college, and ask for a
  refund, then refund shold be the difference between the out-state tuition
 we paid and the in-stat price we won.  That refund is the "Charged more".

2) "this letter", means the bottom line we hold: write "with reservation" on ou
r bills.      We can not let the school know that we may not seriously want to
 sue them in each particular case.   Otherwise, every college may not take your
 treat seriously.

3) CSPAer's unique status,  the status the CSPAers holding BEFORE the green
   card were so unique that eables CSPAer to be in his own statse as:
   A STUDENT OR A BUSINESSMAN IN THAT STATE,   ===>to be in the state other
   than educational purpose.  That meets the guildline set up by the court
   in Vlandis v. Kline, a state should grant in-state status to student if
   his stay in the state is other than for educational purpose.

   In 1982's case Toll v. Moreno (Moreno is the name for the college president)
   the court ruled a class of aliens(G-4) could be treaded as in-state because
   the unique status which enables them to stay other than educational purpose.

   Attention: the approval of in-state for the aliens by the court does not mea
n give in-state tuition to every aliens.   ===>  Every alien in that unique
  class has the rights to treated equally like their American citizen classmate
s.   They have to prove that every one of them did staied in that state other
 than going to college.   Such as working off-campus, paying the local tax and
 starting his own business,  every proof should treated equally by the school
 just like American citizens.                       e

a) The court ruling are very complexed.  They could be found in "the Supreme
   court report" in your college liberary.


b) Possibility:  The unique statusof CSPAer is much stronger than G-4.
                 The supreme court ruled in 1983(?) that kids of the illegal
                 aliens should be educated free in high school and below.
         One hero will be eventuly a winner.      Our chance is good.

ATTENTION: IFCSS
   I had great respect to your IFCSS.  I recommend IFCSS take it into a fight.
   IFCSS may have a lot of lawyerfriends, and ask one of them to take a civial
   case.   The loser will pay the fee, and that would be the losing college.
   If IFCSS did so, those of us, the chinese from a police country will find
   the equal rights in this country, will find honor from IFCSS.

   Yesterday IFCSS got CSPAers the green card.   Today CSPAer shall get their
   honor.  Tomorrow CSPAer will get their money.  ck

   Please take this into a fight, IFCSS is really for the CSS.


CND: please make any corrections and comments as you wish.
   Thank you for your attention.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov  5 08:14:09 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12134); Fri, 5 Nov 93 08:14:09 CST
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 08:14:09 CST
Message-Id: <9311051410.AA10211@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [shen@linguist.umass.edu: CSPA and tuition status]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Hi, guys, as my understanding of the following message, we, CSPAers, will
not only be eligible for the tuition difference of THIS SEMESTER, but also 
for the difference FROM April 11, 93, when we were granted temperory status
by then Presindent Bush! Since from then our stay here has a very particular
meaning, other than "only for the purpose of education." Even though many of
us principals may keep quite on this subject since such a claim will be 
contradictory to the claim of "solely for the purposr of education" in order
to reap the Sino-U.S. tax treaty benefits (anyone will probe this 
possibility?), our derivative dependents are FULLY ELIGIBLE for that 
tuition difference!

What is your suggestions? Interested? That may be something we can really
get excited!

Mi Mi Sr.

==========================================================================

Date:         Fri, 5 Nov 1993 06:06:21 -0500
Reply-To: "Tong SHEN ~{IrM,~}" <shen@linguist.umass.edu>
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: "Tong SHEN ~{IrM,~}" <shen@linguist.umass.edu>
Subject:      CSPA and tuition status
Comments: To: China-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

Attached below are forwarding messages.  Please direct all your replies
to the original sender.  Thank you.

                    China-Net Management Committee (net-cord@ifcss.org)

***********************************************************************

>From:   IN%"JI5BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"  "David Zhang"  2-NOV-1993 18:03:03.97
Subject: Rush,Rush,Please post as info for in state tuition

I am very greatful for your posting my suggestions on the net,  Please add
The following technical suggestions into the net now.  Please rush:
 1) Because the Chinese people were from a police country,  some of us may
 not dare to sue the college.  Maybe it takes a year.   I hoped that someone wo
uld sue and benefit us all.   In order to sharing the winning price,  every chi
nese student who was rejected by their college after they treatened to sue,
Please write" I accept the tuition bill with reservation" on your costly
out-of-state tuition bill.   That would make you be able recover the money they
charged more after the court's furture ruling, which should be on our side.
2) Please do not show this letter to any school official, because they would
 decide to wait for the court ruling as the first opition, while safly chargin
g you the out-of-state tuition.    Let's hope one of us would standing up to su
e.
3) Please note, the working rights we CSPAer got 4 years ago is the key factor
  to estapblish our status other that students.
Please post now, please post.

*****

>From:   IN%"JI5BB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU"  "David Zhang"  3-NOV-1993 01:09:59.80
Subject: RE: Rush,Rush,Please post as info for in state tuition
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 02 Nov 1993 18:37:04 -0500 (EST)
To: NLUO@msvax.mssm.edu
Message-id: <01H4UZMKI3DU00526T@msvax.mssm.edu>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

1) "Charged more" , the extra money you have to pay for out-of-stat tuition.
    When your public college refused to offer you the in-state tuition,  you
    should be smart enough to pay the whole bill, the out-of state tuition.
    So the words "charged more" means the defference between out of state tuiti
on and the in-stat tuition.ou wrIn the Business Law, when we   put the words
   like "with reservation" or "under protest" into the bill before paying for
   it,  we reserved the rights to sue in the future.    When one of our hero wo
n the battle with the college in court, everyone could bring their paid tuition
  bill with "with reservation" on it , to their own college, and ask for a
  refund, then refund shold be the difference between the out-state tuition
 we paid and the in-stat price we won.  That refund is the "Charged more".

2) "this letter", means the bottom line we hold: write "with reservation" on ou
r bills.      We can not let the school know that we may not seriously want to
 sue them in each particular case.   Otherwise, every college may not take your
 treat seriously.

3) CSPAer's unique status,  the status the CSPAers holding BEFORE the green
   card were so unique that eables CSPAer to be in his own statse as:
   A STUDENT OR A BUSINESSMAN IN THAT STATE,   ===>to be in the state other
   than educational purpose.  That meets the guildline set up by the court
   in Vlandis v. Kline, a state should grant in-state status to student if
   his stay in the state is other than for educational purpose.

   In 1982's case Toll v. Moreno (Moreno is the name for the college president)
   the court ruled a class of aliens(G-4) could be treaded as in-state because
   the unique status which enables them to stay other than educational purpose.

   Attention: the approval of in-state for the aliens by the court does not mea
n give in-state tuition to every aliens.   ===>  Every alien in that unique
  class has the rights to treated equally like their American citizen classmate
s.   They have to prove that every one of them did staied in that state other
 than going to college.   Such as working off-campus, paying the local tax and
 starting his own business,  every proof should treated equally by the school
 just like American citizens.                       e

a) The court ruling are very complexed.  They could be found in "the Supreme
   court report" in your college liberary.


b) Possibility:  The unique statusof CSPAer is much stronger than G-4.
                 The supreme court ruled in 1983(?) that kids of the illegal
                 aliens should be educated free in high school and below.
         One hero will be eventuly a winner.      Our chance is good.

ATTENTION: IFCSS
   I had great respect to your IFCSS.  I recommend IFCSS take it into a fight.
   IFCSS may have a lot of lawyerfriends, and ask one of them to take a civial
   case.   The loser will pay the fee, and that would be the losing college.
   If IFCSS did so, those of us, the chinese from a police country will find
   the equal rights in this country, will find honor from IFCSS.

   Yesterday IFCSS got CSPAers the green card.   Today CSPAer shall get their
   honor.  Tomorrow CSPAer will get their money.  ck

   Please take this into a fight, IFCSS is really for the CSS.


CND: please make any corrections and comments as you wish.
   Thank you for your attention.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov  5 08:18:49 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12180); Fri, 5 Nov 93 08:18:49 CST
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 08:18:49 CST
Message-Id: <9311051413.AA10215@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [xwen@lynx.dac.neu.edu: Re: Undocumented Chinese and CSPA]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

>From: xwen@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Xiangrong Wen)
Subject: Re: Undocumented Chinese and CSPA
To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 15:19:05 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9311041850.AA09788@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu> from "Mi Mi" at Nov 4, 93 12:57:05 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 553       

Hi, Mi Mi,
I cannot agree with you any more. Your message is great. I really don't
like someone's attitude towards our fellow Chinese, esp. undocumented
Chinese. What right do we have to discriminate against those people?

BTW, after reading the LC net article, No.1, I was convinced that
immigrants, esp. Chinese immigrants are flooding the American job 
market. You see, even our Chinese fellows found the bad effect of CSPA 
on job market. The world is too crowded, and the American job market is 
that small.

Then, we cannot complain CNN any more.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov  5 22:21:00 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA01160); Fri, 5 Nov 93 22:21:00 CST
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 22:21:00 CST
Message-Id: <9311060417.AA10486@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [hee@acf2.NYU.EDU: LCnet News-release (11/05/93)]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=

Mi Mi Sr.'s comments: 

In this issue, some lc-l netter expressed rather rationale opinions regarding
the unluck job hunter's complain.

Well, not every one is a crying baby. 

=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=

Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 15:02:02 CST
Comment:  LCs Working Committee Information Exchange
Originator: lc-l@ifcss.org
Reply-To: <lc-l@ifcss.org>
Sender: lc-l@ifcss.org
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
>From: hee@acf2.NYU.EDU (Enhua Ed HE)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lc-l@ifcss.org>
Subject: LCnet News-release (11/05/93)



Subject: LCnet_News110593

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                                                           |
|                           WE CAME AFTER 04/11/90                          |
|                                  NETWORK                                  |
|                                                                           |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+



			TABLE OF CONTENTS
	========================================================
	1. Comments from LCnet Readers
	2. FYI: DOL Extends Comment Period on H-1B Rule 
	========================================================

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Comments from LCnet Readers
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From ***@*****.SAN.UC.EDU  Fri Oct 29 19:37:08 1993
Subject: Re: LCnet News-Release(10/29/93)
To: lc-l@ifcss.org

Hi, Dear late-comers:

   I can completely understand the story told by that computer-major friend.
I want to tell you that I experienced almost the same situation for quite a few
times.  It is obvious that we are in a difficult time for job-hunting because
we were late and the shrinking economy.  For my major (pharmacy) it got even 
worse, for the entire health-care field including pharmaceutical industries is 
Clinton's "hard-target".

   I think what we can do practically is trying harder for the job-searching, 
for I believe somewhere the door is still open.  The key is how much time, 
effort and patience you really want to put in.  The rest will count on really 
good lucks.
    

>From ******@*****.cc.ukans.edu  Fri Oct 29 22:53:45 1993
Subject: re to WH's letter
To: lc-l@ifcss.org

Dear fellows:

   I saw WH's letter on the network. It reminded me of one of my 
friends' experience. He mentioned similar things to me. However, I've also 
seen a lot LC's who had gone to their work without this kind of problems. 
It seems to me that it is happening very randomly, largely depending on
the knowledge of CSPA of the employer from whom you are looking fro a job.
And usually, 9 out 10 of them know little about CPSA(I'm sure though they know
about the illegal people a lot more). So keep trying, WH, I am sure as a CS
student, no one else has a better chance than you to get a job. As a matter
of fact, I met at least three LC CS students who just found their jobs in 
the midwest area. Maybe you can try you luck there, too. Not only that, I have
a lawyer friend, who is an expert on E-based immigration issues. He told me 
that there are as many ways as you can think of to deal with employers on these
kind of problems(and as everybody knows that this same problem has happened 
so many times before to people from other countries, too). So one thing WH
might want to do next time is to talk to a person who has more knowledge 
in this field before he carelessly answer any questions of the employers. 
For example, one thing that my friend suggested and WH should have done is to 
tell the employers that he don't need help for immigration, and tell them to 
put it down in the contract, if they feel secure, and who knows what will 
happen. Maybe they'll change their personnel manager in 2,3 yrs(which isn't an 
impossible thing as in US companies these people are paid so low that
they are almost alway looking for new positions.). Then when you bring
it up again, you'll helped without even being checked for a damn thing in
it up again, you'll be help without even being checked for a damn thing in
without even being checked for a damn thing in the contract. Or, with 2-3 yr. 
excellent experiences, I can't even imagine how many big companies will come 
to beg you to joint them. By then, who cares about what you are, F-1, CSPA, 
even illegal. As long as you can make money for them better than others, they 
can do everything for you. So don't you worry, and also worrying don't help 
anyway. Why not try it again more "cleverly" than fooling around and miss your
chances. Keep in mind that the longer you wait, the more chance the next 
manager will ask you the same CSPA question. Good Luck!


>From ****@****.unl.edu  Tue Nov  2 12:39:40 1993
Subject: CSPA affects job-hunting of LC
To: lc-l@ifcss.org

Hi, there,

   I have same experience (3 times, one even by interview) as that 
expressed by someone in his letter to LC-net (#1) on 11/4/93.
There is no doubt that CSPA affects the LC's job hunting. Everyone 
knows this. It's too late to complain (maybe we should not complain at
all?), but it may not be too late to unite all LCs and do something 
to protect (or to save) ourself.

A LC



>From ***@**.NASA.GOV  Thu. Nov 4 00:34:06 1993
To: lc-l@ifcss.org

        Wake up ! 
        United together !
	Fight against the prejudice on our later comers !
       -------------------------------------------------------
  
  On reading about the job prejudice on one of our later comers, 
I am so angry that I can not keep in silence for any second, 
I have to shout, we have to shout, we have to stand up and 
organize together to fight for our own rights, to fight against 
this kind of unfair evil things! In this so-called fair country, 
unfair and prejudice are everywhere, if we do not organize and shout 
in unisound, no one would care about our sufferings, no one would 
care about the prejudice on us.

  I believe, most of our later comers experienced that "famous movement"
of 1989, there is no single reason for us to suffer this 
discrimination, we had contributed and sacrificed more on spot, therefore 
we deserve better treatment, but actually, we are treated just to the 
opposite, it is a kind of torture. If we can stand this, we are deserved 
more sufferings.

  No matter what kind of tricks the American political people have been
playing , we Chinese students have to organize together if we do not want 
to suffer more in this fair-and-unfair foreign land. In my own opinion, 
CSPA is not a bad thing, it is a good thing, what good is that it has 
helped at least 60% of our Chinese scholars, and I believe that when most of 
the earlier comers got the "PR", they will help our later 
comers in turn to accomplish the second step if we really can take some 
action. What important is that we have to shout and organize
together not only for things happened now but also for those in the 
future, no one would say that he need help only once in a life time.

  Calm down ! 
  Do real things in calling upon our friend, remember we are helping  
  ourselves !
  I am ready to do things at any time !
  
United together, Chinese scholars ! Fight against the "Black Hand" !

AW. Nov. 3


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. FYI: DOL Extends Comment Period on H-1B Rule  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From: AmyY <amyy@nafsa.org>
RE:       DOL Extends H-1B Comment Period (NAFSA Update No. 236)
DATE:     October 28, 1993


DOL Extends Comment Period on H-1B Rule

As reported in an earlier update, the Department of Labor (DOL)
published in the Federal Register on October 6 a proposed
regulation to amend the labor condition application (LCA) process
for the H-1B nonimmigrant category.  The original comment
deadline was November 5.  DOL has extended the comment period for
an additional 30 days.  A notice will be published in the Federal
Register next week.

Among other things, the proposed rule would: (1) reduce the
validity period of the LCA from six years to three; (2) require
employers to update prevailing wage information every 18 months
(instead of 24); (3) require employers to identify on the LCA the
applicable wage rate and source of information; and (4) authorize
the Labor Department to investigate employer compliance.

Comments should be sent to: John R. Fraser, Acting Assistant
Secretary, Department of Labor, 200 Constitution Avenue NW, Room
S3510, Washington, DC  20210. A draft of NAFSA's comment letter
will be distributed over Inter-l in mid-November.

Amy Yenkin, NAFSA Central Office

-------
LCnet Editors' note:

We will forward the draft of NAFSA's comment letter to you when it
is released in mid-November.


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+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|        Editor-in-Chief: Enhua He, New York University                    |
|        Executive Editor: Xiaodong Huang, North Carolina State University |
|        Editors: Huan Ren, University of California at Berkeley           |
|                 Chengyan Liu, Washington University at St.Louis          |
|        Comments: lc-l@ifcss.org  |  Sign on/off: listserv@ifcss.org      |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        Unite, We Late Comers!!




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sat Nov  6 11:31:08 1993
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 93 11:31:08 CST
Message-Id: <9311061727.AA10729@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [Undocumented Chinese and CSPA]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1993 2:18:07 -0500 (EST)
   From: ZHOU@EDDIE.YORKCOL.EDU

   According to the Washington Post, 11/1/93, the INS official has said that all
   is ready for the Golden Venture survivors to be deported now.  At the time the
   fate of the 650 Chinese refugees deported by the Mexico government is not yet
   accounted for, what is awaiting these "cowboys" once  they are sent back as
   scheduled?  It is one thing to extol them into skies, it is another to come up
   with real solutions to resolve their immediate crisis.  Put yourself in the
   shoes their parents, would you want them to come again given the way they are
   being treated by the American government and the Chinese community in the U.S.?

Thanx for your comments and message. The smuggling issue is very controversial,
and it is very difficult to cut a clear line between right and wrong, winner
or losers. For me, the sneakheads should be condemned, but those "cowboys" are 
just ordinary people, with a strong desire to seek a better life. Some of them 
succeeded, some of them fail, some one even lost their lives. I do not believe
that we are in the position to criticise them, because many of CSS came here 
for the same reason as they did. As an educated elite, we had a much better 
chance to be granted a entry visa then they did, but it does not mean that the
only addmittable guys to the US are educated elite. Look around for yourself, 
how many Americans and PRs are as well educated as you and me? How many 
professors in your schools are native Americans? How many immigrants here came
for study? I have encountered many Mexican undocuments here in New York, and
there in Texas they are so many. In fact, undocumented Mexicans outnumber all 
of the other nationalities all together by 3 to 1. Who have seen Americans 
complaining this aloud on TV? Why Chinese? Why we Chinese complain ONLY 
Chinese? That is one of my points. 

Mi Mi Sr.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sat Nov  6 23:04:42 1993
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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 93 23:04:42 CST
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [CZCY%CORNELLA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU: Re: [hee@acf2.NYU.EDU: LCnet News-release (11/05/93)]]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:         Sat, 06 Nov 93 21:26:37 EST
>From: CZCY%CORNELLA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject:      Re: [hee@acf2.NYU.EDU: LCnet News-release (11/05/93)]
To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Fri, 5 Nov 93 22:21:00 CST

   Again, if you were a CSPA the company would save thousands of dollars to
transfer your visa status.  Of most significant is that it would save their
energy and vaoid possible legal troubles.  Those companies which have
rejected LCers must have spent a lot money on the visa transfer.  Hence, it
was your visa status, not CSPA issue, that determined the  fate of interview.
If you can convince, better to use your skill or experience, the interviewer
that it would be worthwhile for them spending money on your status, you would
be the final vinner.  Just try your best, do not blame others, nor CSPAers.
if you got a free time try to watch the film ' Beijingers in New York'.  I am
pretty sure it would help you a lot.  Good luck.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  8 12:49:54 1993
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Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 12:49:54 CST
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From: Tong Jiang <tong@amethyst.phys.nwu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Selective Service System?!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi netters,
	I received a registration form from the US government Selective
Service System. Anyone on the net received the same thing? and anyone 
knows what this form is for? I guess it doesn't make any sense for the 
perminent resident to serve the military. Although we got hte GC, we still
hold the PRC passports and don't have the right to vote afterall. 
Anyone help me out here!


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  8 13:06:06 1993
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From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu: Visa Priority Date???]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI===FYI=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
=Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.=
=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI===FYI=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=

If the EB-2 backlog gets longer, is IFCSS responsible for that? CSPA?
CSPA has taken more than 50,000 potential applicants in EB-2 and EB-3
waiting pools to the world-wide leftovers, and probably more before next
July. Is that good enough? While the EB-3 issue is still controversial,
since the CSPA lads (including CSS and all the others) are still taking
quotas from China's current pool, the EB-2, has nothing to do with CSPA
at all.

The surge of demands on EB-2, as Mi Mi Sr. sees it, might be caused
by several reasons.

1) The undesirable classification of the visa type EC6, which, might lead to
   some political problems, prevents some current EB-2 ready applicants from
   jumping into the race. 

2) The undesirable treatment for dependents. As a normal EB-2 applicant, 
   his/her dependents will get the immigration visa together with the 
   principal, no matter where they are, either in US or China, from the
   some category EB-2. As a CSPA principal, there are many troubles with
   the lads. Time windows, visa number availabilities, pre or post
   July lads, etc. (If ther had been no problems for lads, the LADS-net
   would have never been organized). While some one is eligible to bring 
   his/her dependents out of China instantly, why bother to try a less 
   desirable alternative?

   It was repeatedly urged by IFCSS and Immigration lawyers that people with 
   ordinay channel to adjust their status do not rely on CSPA only, and 
   keeping the other options open was encouraged by all the parties involved. 
   Of course this group of people have their rights to pick up EB-2 instead 
   of CSPA, and there is absolutely no reason for anyone to complain about 
   their decisions.

3) Sudden surge of demands from LCers. This possibility is probable since
   some LC want to avoid the long waiting line in EB-3. But, since you
   can not apply EB-2 and EB-3 with different qualifications at the same 
   time (for derivative applicants, it is possible for them to apply both
   catgories, as as EB-3 and FB-2 at the same time, but not the principals),
   there is little chance that many LC just switch their categories in such 
   a short period.

4) The sudden revival of ths sluggish US economy needs more EB-2 from Chinese?
   This is almost impossible.

As the above analysis, the retrogress of China's EB-2 is mostly caused by 
the undesired features of CSPA. While we can not change the political aspect,
we can, try to solve the family problems. If all the lads can get the fast 
visa together with their principals in the world-wide pool without hurting
anyone who came later, then all of us will be happy. Please do not ASK IFCSS
why this happened. Take the action to solve it. Join the lads-net effort
to get a bigger pie for lads in the world pool, that is mutually benefitial.

We lost several chances. We paid the tuition. We have to learn some from the 
past. We can not loss anymore. We can not learn nothing while paying more
tuitions. December is comming. The final CSPA implementation is comming. It 
it the last chance for us to take our fate in our own hands. Wake up, LC 
brothers and sisters!


Mi Mi Sr.

=original message included==original message included=
=original message included==original message included=


Date:         Sun, 7 Nov 1993 12:34:34 CST
Reply-To: Chengyan Liu <cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu>
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Chengyan Liu <cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu>
Subject:      Visa Priority Date???
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

>From ****@*****.med.virginia.edu  Sun Nov  7 09:04:58 1993

Dear friends:

I am writing to you concerning the Chinese employment based (2nd
priority) visa number.

Before the implementation of CSPA, IFCSS has said publically
several times on different occasions that CSPA will reduce the
waiting time for an immigrant visa because most, if not all, of
the CSS who came before 4/11/90 will take advantage of CSPA.  The
result, the immigrant visa number for Chinese students,
especially for the 2nd preference (which is designated for
advanced degree holder like most of the CSS in the US) will
become current. The argument thus has become a major reason for the
silence of late-comers, and it had worked very well.

Unfortunately, 4 months after the implementation of CSPA, the
visa number for the 2nd preference has gone back to Feb 1992 from
July 1993.  I was shocked when I first read this on CND, and I had
hoped that they had made a typing mistake.  Instead of Feb 1992,
the date really should be Feb 1993.  Much to my dissapointment,
two independent sources had confirmed the CND's news.  The visa
number for the employment based 2rd preference is indeed Feb
1992.

So what happened?

I don't have a clue.  Before the implementation of CSPA, the
employment based visa number for 2nd preference had advanced to
Dec 1992 and had become current in July, August and September
1993.  The INS official publication "Visa Bulletin" explained
that "heavy demand for change of status, especially in local INS
offices" is the cause of the retrogression.

I, for one, don't necessarily believe INS's explanation and I
also want IFCSS to make good on its promises.  Would you mind
posting my letter to the net?  If it is not too much trouble,
could you also discuss this with IFCSS on this matter?

Best regards.

--A Late Comer


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  8 13:36:35 1993
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Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 13:36:35 CST
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From: Shu Yong Shao <shaosy@sol.cse.fau.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: access to the backup files
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Dear Sir:
	I am the new member here. I would like to take a look at the old backup
files. Can somebody tell me how to access the backup files on LAD issues? Thanks.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  8 14:32:49 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: access to the backup files
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
% Post at lads@lucerne.rice.edu                               %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ subdirectory     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov  8 23:58:29 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [ifcss@wam.umd.edu: Weekly Journal Nov 01-07]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:         Mon, 8 Nov 1993 17:36:03 -0500
Reply-To: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@wam.umd.edu>
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@wam.umd.edu>
Subject:      Weekly Journal Nov 01-07
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

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[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[


               IFCSS HQ WEEKLY JOURNAL (November 1-7, 1993)
               ============================================
The IFCSS HQ Weekly Journal is published weekly to provide
information on the IFCSS Headquarters daily activities. It aims
to increase the openness and transparency of the IFCSS, and to
encourage criticisms, suggestions and active participation from
our members.

                            November 1, Monday
Lin Changsheng met with Wu Tao, the Chair of the Theory and
Research Working Committee, in Phoenix to discuss the committee's
work and the IFCSS stand over Jiang Zemin's impending visit to
the US.

The HQ staff contacted the IRS HQ to develop a program to assist
the IFCSS members to file tax forms.  The HQ issued News Release
5071 to encourage input from the CSS community over Jiang Zemin's
visit to the US and possible IFCSS actions during the event.

                            November 2, Tuesday
The HQ staff contacted Pacific Rainbow Company to develop a
membership service program in the field of books and
publications.

The IFCSS executive director Liu Xiaozhu sent a letter to Ms.
Rita Boie and Mr. E. B. Duarte of INS HQ to inquire about the
current status of the CSPA implementation.

Lin Changsheng returned to Washington D.C. after visiting
Southern California and Arizona.

                           November 3, Wednesday
Student leaders of the 1989 democratic movement Xiong Yan and
Zhou Yongjun, and the former leader of Independent Workers Union
(Gong1 Zi4 Lian2) Zhao Pinlu visited the IFCSS HQ.

The HQ continued to contact INS and State Department over the
problems encountered by the CSPA leftovers.

The HQ began to coordinate to establish a Committee of Anti-
Discrimination Watch. The Committee will fight against all forms
of discrimination and victimization of the Chinese students.

                           November 4, Thursday
Ms. Maranda Yen Shieh visited the HQ to discuss cooperation
between the IFCSS and GWNCD, an overseas Chinese group stationed
in the D.C. area.

John Pascoe visited the HQ to work on the Medical Insurance
Program. The agreement was reached that the premium will stayed
the same while new benefits added to the plan.

Lin Changsheng signed agreement with PTS Travel Agency to open a
new line of air ticket service to the CSS community.

Liu Xiaozhu attended the meeting of Congressional China Group.
Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi dropped by and shared her view with
the group.

The HQ continued to coordinate within the organization for
possible actions on Jiang Zemin's impending visit.

                            November 5, Friday
The HQ issued News Release 5072 to kick off a series of service
programs for air traveling to and from China.

Lin Changsheng met with student representative of the Georgetown
University.

Sean Mack of Amnesty International visited the HQ, and
interviewed Liu Xiaozhu.

John King of Meridian International Center visited the HQ.

The HQ completed in processing applications for the IFCSS
Delegation to Taiwan.

                           November 6, Saturday
The HQ received the council's financial inspection team and went
on with its accounting auditing.

                           November 7, Sunday
The HQ continued to work with the inspection team in its
accounting inspection.


****************************************************************

President             Lin Changsheng
Vice President        Shi Heping (On Leave)
Executive Director    Liu Xiaozhu
Chief of Staff        Huang Songyun

****************************************************************


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  9 09:41:19 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA11146); Tue, 9 Nov 93 09:41:19 CST
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 09:41:18 CST
Message-Id: <9311091537.AA12036@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu: New Comers Working Committee Call for Volunteers]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
=Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.==Mi Mi Sr.=

The following is the proposal of the IFCSS New Comer Working Committee, headed
by the ex-chairman of the lc-l net Working Committee Chairman, Chengyan Liu.
very interesting proposal, compared with what was advocated four months ago.

We welcome the changes! We ARE brothers and sisters after all!

Mi Mi Sr.

Lads-net Committee Member

=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=

Date:         Mon, 8 Nov 1993 16:37:29 CST
Reply-To: Chengyan Liu <cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu>
Sender: China-Net <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>From: Chengyan Liu <cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu>
Subject:      New Comers Working Committee Call for Volunteers
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.bitnet
To: Multiple recipients of list CHINA-NT <CHINA-NT%UGA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>

        # Late Comers = New Comers = Chinese Students & Scholars #
        #  who came to the United States after April 11th, 1990  #

Dear Late Comers:

    Through CSPA (Chinese Students Protection Act) Implementation, there are
growing demand for coordinating Late Comers' activities among CSS community.
The IFCSS (Independent Federation of Chinese Students & Scholars) New Comers
Working Committee is set up for this purpose: forming with Late Comers and
working for Late Comers. Since most of the Late Comers are full time students
with loaded course works, this working committee need more volunteers to
join in so that we can work in a more efficient way. If you or your friends
interest in this volunteer service, please read the attached proposal and
contact me at cliu@wuecon.wustl.edu.


        Chengyan Liu
     Acting Chairman of
IFCSS New Comers Working Committee
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
               The proposal of New Comers Working Committee
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    New Comers mainly refer to those Chinese Students (though they may
    include part of Chinese Scholars) who came to the United States after
    April 11, 1990. Many questions have been raised through the CSPA
    (Chinese Students Protection Act) Implementation, New Comers are concerned
    of their future after CSPA. Recently, there're more and more reports
    that New Comers' job applications be denied simply because they have
    not been covered by CSPA. The reason is that before New Comers can be
    hired, the employer must demonstrate that there's no American
    citizen or PR applying for the same position. While CSPA produced a large
    pool of PRs whose major are overlapped with most of New Comers. Faced
    with this situation, New Comers Working Committee propose to work
    closely with IFCSS HQ in the direction of working permit and visa
    extension beyond graduation. This committee believes that the proposed
    work will ease the hardship New Comers encountered and strengthen the
    grassroots of IFCSS. This proposal also implies that IFCSS HQ should
    devote specific resources for the task as most of the New Comers
    Working Committee members are full time students, they need to balance
    their time between studying and volunteer services.

    Second, New Comers Working Committee will try to supply legal advice
    for New Comers. It will help to solve problems which New Comers have
    or will meet. Third, New Comers Working Committee will probe the
    possibility of academic assistance for New Comers. The academic
    excellence will partially help New Comers in the road of job hunting.
    Fourth, as an option, New Comers Working Committee will try to organize
    a workshop for New Comers activists to learn how to conduct social
    activities and to exchange their experience.

    The set up of New Comers Working Committee is just a beginning. In order
    to improve IFCSS's mission, the committee should establish a broad
    connection among campuses and work hard for the future of New Comers.



              Chengyan Liu

            Acting Chairman of
     IFCSS New Comers Working Committee


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  9 16:28:57 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA11996); Tue, 9 Nov 93 16:28:57 CST
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 16:28:57 CST
Message-Id: <9311092225.AA12184@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [hee@acf2.NYU.EDU: LCnet News-Release (special, 11/09/93)]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
=Mi Mi Sr. Forwards==Mi Mi Sr. Forwards==Mi Mi Sr. Forwards=

As more and more lads are getting GCs, the EB-2 retrogress caused wide
concern among LC community. LC are joining IFCSS in order to probe the
possibilies to solve the EB-2 crisis. 

Well, it is a welcomed trend of LC activities. When LC are joining IFCSS
and caring about IFCSS, the CSS community can reunite again and become
stronger.

No one has to believe what the IFCSS believes, and no one has to agree
what the IFCSS advocates. As a virtually sole organization of CSS in the
US, IFCSS has established its own credibilities. It is too stupid to 
destroy it and set up a new one. The best way to change the cause of IFCSS
is to participate, through democratic process. When many of CSS advocate
democracy, why not practice it among ourselves?

As the undocumented Chinese, Mi Mi Sr. just talked with some of his friends.
Many who applied for Advanced Parole recently have been denied. Some with
Advanced Parole have been denied re-entry into the U.S. INS is getting 
tougher on those undocumented Chinese. Most of undocumented Chinese we 
heard about who are approved by INS for CSPA PR are those who had used
Advance Parole to re-enter U.S. before 1993. Of course there is the 
possibility that many who appled AP lately have not gone through the 
process yet. Chances for the undocumented Chinese to get CSPA PR are
not great. The main reason is the lack of records. But some did get through.
It is expected that for the next several months, most of the CSPA applicants
will be those undocumented Chinese who have managed to re-enter U.S. with
newly minted Advanced Paroles.

Either China's EB-2 and EB-3 pools are dwarfed by 50,000+ CSPA applicants.
Either some defect EB-2 or EB-3 ready applicants or newly added lads
can cause trmenduous retrogress in these two categories. In order to solve
the visa crisis, we need to create a limitless pool for the lads. To
utilize the world-wide leftover is the best, if not only, choice. To
get some visa extension or work permit do not do much good. With the so called
work permit under EO 12711, many EC ended up with DED lads, which is 
a major problem many lads are facing. Visa extension has to be granted 
through normal channels. It is very hard to pass another law now.

Hopefuly the retrogress will stop soon, since June 30 is coming very fast.
If those who picked up EB-2 instead of CSPA can not get GC in time, and 
their chances of getting PR through normal channels are not so great, some 
of them will probably switch back to CSPA for safty reasons. 

With wide spread anti-immigration trend and sluggish economics, we have
to struggle for survive. Some time we have to cross fingers.

Good Luck, guys!



=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 10:30:15 CST
Comment:  LCs Working Committee Information Exchange
Originator: lc-l@ifcss.org
Reply-To: <lc-l@ifcss.org>
Sender: lc-l@ifcss.org
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
>From: hee@acf2.NYU.EDU (Enhua He)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lc-l@ifcss.org>
Subject: LCnet News-Release (special, 11/09/93)


News-release11/09/1993

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 									   |
|                           WE CAME AFTER 04/11/90                         |
|                                  NETWORK				   |
|									   |
|									   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

         
                            SPECIAL EDITION

                  =====================================
                  1. A Letter from a LCnet Reader
                  2. Message from LCs Working Committee
                  =====================================
 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. A Letter from a LCnet Reader
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From ****@*****.***.virginia.edu  Sun Nov  7 09:04:58 1993


Dear LCNet Editor:

I am writing to you concerning the Chinese employment based (2nd priority) 
visa number.

Before the implementation of CSPA, IFCSS said publicly several times on 
different occasions that CSPA would reduce the waiting time for an immigrant 
visa because most, if not all, of the CSSes who came before 4/11/90 would 
take advantage of CSPA. As a result, the immigrant visa number for Chinese 
students, especially for the 2nd preference (which is designated for 
advanced degree holders like most of the CSSes in the US) would become 
current. The argument thus had become a major reason for the silence of 
late-comers, and it had worked very well.

Unfortunately, 4 months after the implementation of CSPA, the visa priority
date for the 2nd preference has gone back to Feb 1992 from July 1993. I was 
shocked when I first read this on CND, and I had hoped that they had made 
a typing mistake.  Instead of Feb 1992, the date really should be Feb 1993.  
Much to my disapointment, two independent sources had confirmed the CND's 
news. The priority date for the employment based 2nd preference is indeed 
Feb 1992.

So what happened?

I don't have a clue.  Before the implementation of CSPA, the employment 
based visa number for 2nd preference had advanced to Dec 1992 and had 
become current in July, August and September 1993.  The INS official 
publication "Visa Bulletin" explained that "heavy demand for change of 
status, especially in local INS offices" is the cause of the retrogression.

I, for one, don't necessarily believe INS's explanation and I also want 
IFCSS to make good on its promises.  Would you mind posting my letter to 
the net?  If it is not too much trouble, could you also discuss this with 
IFCSS on this matter?

Best regards.

a LCnet Reader


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Message from LCs Working Committee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear LCNet Readers:
 
    After we got the reader's feedback, we interviewed Mr. Chengyan Liu, the
nominee Chair of IFCSS newly proposed New Comers Working Committee. Mr. Liu
said that when he saw the visa news from CND-US, he immediately contacted 
Mr. Xiaozhu Liu, the IFCSS HQ staff who is in charge of the matter, and got no
meaningful answer. Mr. Xiaozhou Liu only suggested that the allegation was not
true and he could only take action after Chengyan has a proposal and get IFCSS
Council approved, which is due by mid-November. That means IFCSS HQ will
do nothing with visa issue. What's a disappointing strategy!
 
    As of today, we learned that Mr. Chengyan Liu does have a proposal, but
it can only be carried out after IFCSS Council's approval. We'll keep contact
with IFCSS, INS, and U.S. Congress and do our best.
      

LCs Working Committee



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Editors' notes:

To sign on, send "SUB LC-L (first name last name)" as body msg to 
listserv@ifcss.org. 

To sign off, send "UNSUB LC-L" as body msg to listserv@ifcss.org.

Send comments to lc-l@ifcss.org.

Past issues of LCnet News-Release are FTP'able from CND.ORG, in the
directory pub/community/LCN


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Editor-in-Chief: Enhua He, New York University                      |
|   Executive Editor: Xiaodong Huang, North Carolina State University   |
|   Editors: Huan Ren, University of California, Berkeley               |
|            Min Gao, Syracuse University                               |
|   Comments: lc-l@ifcss.org  |  Sign on/off: listserv@ifcss.org        |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                       Unite, We Late Comers!
                     





From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  9 16:57:06 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12041); Tue, 9 Nov 93 16:57:06 CST
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 16:57:06 CST
Message-Id: <9311092251.AA03106@augustus.physics.unc.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: jinliu@augustus.physics.unc.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: jinliu@augustus.physics.unc.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Selective Service System?! 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

It is required that every PR under the age of 32 to be registered to Selective Service
System. Yes, you have a possibility to be drawn to the military service. But don't
lose your hair over it, because nobody has been drawn unvolentarily since the end of
VW.

Jin

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  9 19:14:54 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12302); Tue, 9 Nov 93 19:14:54 CST
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 19:14:54 CST
Message-Id: <9311100111.AA10861@slc12.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: sxy6@po.cwru.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: sxy6@po.cwru.edu (Shengmei Yuan)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: question
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 



Hi, netters, I has a question here. Any answer  is  appreciated.
Does  a  F-1  student have  to keep his or her F-1  status after his or her  PR  application  is  accepted  and  the  inetrview  is  conducted.
It seems  to me  that once  you  apply  for  PR, you  express  your  immigration  intention.  So  your  F-1 visa  is  no  longer  valid.  Am  I  right?
Thank  you!

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  9 21:12:07 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12610); Tue, 9 Nov 93 21:12:07 CST
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 21:12:07 CST
Message-Id: <9311100307.AA12281@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [lyaa404@emx.cc.utexas.edu: Re: application for optional practical training]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Posted-Date:  Tue, 9 Nov 1993 19:03:07 -0600 (CST)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 19:03:07 -0600 (CST)
>From: chengcheng <lyaa404@emx.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: application for optional practical training
To: Mi Mi <hua7291@MED2S0.ENGR.CCNY.CUNY.EDU>
Cc: charles wu <llccw@utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9311082114.AA16353@emx.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Mi Mi Sr.

May I ask you the following question?  I graduated and got a Master in May
of this year.  I did not dare to apply for one-year period practical training
immediately after graduation because of no position offer to me at that
point.  Now I am studying an Endorsement of Specilization program at the
same univ, and recently I just got an job offer.  Mow the problem is that I am
NOT  eligible to apply for practical training fue to the deadline.  I was
told by the International Office of my univ that because I did not apply
for it prior to 90 days and 30 days after my graduation, I need to wait for
completion of my currently studied program.
So actually I am forever in a case descibed in Catch-22. JOb-offer without
work permit.  With work authorization, no job offer.  I seek your help now.
To the best of your knowledge, do you think there is other way or rule of
INS for me to apply the practical training ? How can I persuade
International Office to approve my application?.
By the way, because I don't know the Email address of this Newsgroup, I
only send this message to you.  If you can forward this to all netter of
this group, I will really apprciate your kind.

With best regard. 

Charles




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov  9 21:30:18 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA12690); Tue, 9 Nov 93 21:30:18 CST
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 21:30:18 CST
Message-Id: <9311100326.AA12299@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [hee@acf2.NYU.EDU: LCnet News-Release (special, 11/09/93)]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


=FYI==FYI===FYI=FYI===FYI=FYI==FYI===FYI=FYI===FYI=FYI==FYI==FYI=
=Mi=Mi=Mi==Mi=Mi=Mi===Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi====Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=Mi=

Re:lc-l wants IFCSS to solve the EB-2 visa crisis. 

Mi Mi Sr.

=FYI==FYI===FYI=FYI===FYI=FYI==FYI===FYI=FYI===FYI=FYI==FYI==FYI=

Date: Tue, 9 Nov 93 10:30:15 CST
Comment:  LCs Working Committee Information Exchange
Originator: lc-l@ifcss.org
Reply-To: <lc-l@ifcss.org>
Sender: lc-l@ifcss.org
Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas
>From: hee@acf2.NYU.EDU (Enhua He)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lc-l@ifcss.org>
Subject: LCnet News-Release (special, 11/09/93)


News-release11/09/1993

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 									   |
|                           WE CAME AFTER 04/11/90                         |
|                                  NETWORK				   |
|									   |
|									   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

         
                            SPECIAL EDITION

                  =====================================
                  1. A Letter from a LCnet Reader
                  2. Message from LCs Working Committee
                  =====================================
 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. A Letter from a LCnet Reader
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From ****@*****.***.virginia.edu  Sun Nov  7 09:04:58 1993


Dear LCNet Editor:

I am writing to you concerning the Chinese employment based (2nd priority) 
visa number.

Before the implementation of CSPA, IFCSS said publicly several times on 
different occasions that CSPA would reduce the waiting time for an immigrant 
visa because most, if not all, of the CSSes who came before 4/11/90 would 
take advantage of CSPA. As a result, the immigrant visa number for Chinese 
students, especially for the 2nd preference (which is designated for 
advanced degree holders like most of the CSSes in the US) would become 
current. The argument thus had become a major reason for the silence of 
late-comers, and it had worked very well.

Unfortunately, 4 months after the implementation of CSPA, the visa priority
date for the 2nd preference has gone back to Feb 1992 from July 1993. I was 
shocked when I first read this on CND, and I had hoped that they had made 
a typing mistake.  Instead of Feb 1992, the date really should be Feb 1993.  
Much to my disapointment, two independent sources had confirmed the CND's 
news. The priority date for the employment based 2nd preference is indeed 
Feb 1992.

So what happened?

I don't have a clue.  Before the implementation of CSPA, the employment 
based visa number for 2nd preference had advanced to Dec 1992 and had 
become current in July, August and September 1993.  The INS official 
publication "Visa Bulletin" explained that "heavy demand for change of 
status, especially in local INS offices" is the cause of the retrogression.

I, for one, don't necessarily believe INS's explanation and I also want 
IFCSS to make good on its promises.  Would you mind posting my letter to 
the net?  If it is not too much trouble, could you also discuss this with 
IFCSS on this matter?

Best regards.

a LCnet Reader


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Message from LCs Working Committee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear LCNet Readers:
 
    After we got the reader's feedback, we interviewed Mr. Chengyan Liu, the
nominee Chair of IFCSS newly proposed New Comers Working Committee. Mr. Liu
said that when he saw the visa news from CND-US, he immediately contacted 
Mr. Xiaozhu Liu, the IFCSS HQ staff who is in charge of the matter, and got no
meaningful answer. Mr. Xiaozhou Liu only suggested that the allegation was not
true and he could only take action after Chengyan has a proposal and get IFCSS
Council approved, which is due by mid-November. That means IFCSS HQ will
do nothing with visa issue. What's a disappointing strategy!
 
    As of today, we learned that Mr. Chengyan Liu does have a proposal, but
it can only be carried out after IFCSS Council's approval. We'll keep contact
with IFCSS, INS, and U.S. Congress and do our best.
      

LCs Working Committee



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Editors' notes:

To sign on, send "SUB LC-L (first name last name)" as body msg to 
listserv@ifcss.org. 

To sign off, send "UNSUB LC-L" as body msg to listserv@ifcss.org.

Send comments to lc-l@ifcss.org.

Past issues of LCnet News-Release are FTP'able from CND.ORG, in the
directory pub/community/LCN


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Editor-in-Chief: Enhua He, New York University                      |
|   Executive Editor: Xiaodong Huang, North Carolina State University   |
|   Editors: Huan Ren, University of California, Berkeley               |
|            Min Gao, Syracuse University                               |
|   Comments: lc-l@ifcss.org  |  Sign on/off: listserv@ifcss.org        |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                       Unite, We Late Comers!
                     





From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 10 00:53:15 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA13755); Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:53:15 CST
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:53:15 CST
Message-Id: <9311100649.AA02111@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: sli@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: sli@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Shi Li)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Lad application in Houston INS
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

I applied for PR as a lad through I-485 in Houston INS about 3 months ago and
have not heard anything from them yet. Any one in Hoston has same or different
situation? What should I do after 90days ?
Thx for any comments.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 10 07:41:38 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA14750); Wed, 10 Nov 93 07:41:38 CST
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 07:41:38 CST
Message-Id: <01H5557M2ER48WVYPV@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: HXYUE@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: HXYUE@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Kansas City INS
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Hi there!

Did any LAD get anything, an interview schedule, an interview, a approval
or any kind of response from Kansas City INS since filing I-485 with them?

Any response will be appreciated.

LX

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 10 07:48:05 1993
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 07:48:05 CST
Message-Id: <9311101344.AA09942@volt.ece.ncsu.edu>
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X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Dear netters,
  
I am concerning about the lad situation at Bafflo INS. Does anybody have any
idea what is going on there?  The answers are very appreciated.
                                     Thanks.
  


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 10 21:26:50 1993
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From: "Zhu, Weimen" <U367D%WVNVM.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject:   LAD in Pittsburg?
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Is there anyone who has been interviewed or approved as a lad at Pittsburg INS?

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 11 10:00:10 1993
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X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi there!

Some lucky LADs have got their approval or an interview while many others 
have not got anything and are still anxiously waiting for a response from 
their local INS.  I am just wondering if we or the LAD committee needs to do 
something before the CSPA final regulation comes out by the end of December.  
As Mi Mi Sr. said that it might be our last chance to push something forward.

Somebody said that some local INS will not do anything with the LADs'
applications before the INS HQ releases the CSPA final regulation.  Why?

Any response will be appreciated.

LX

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 11 13:12:10 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [hua7291@MED2CA.ENGR.CCNY.CUNY.EDU: CSPAers, Attention Please!]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Date:         Thu, 11 Nov 1993 13:46:34 -0500
Reply-To: Mi Mi <hua7291@MED2CA.ENGR.CCNY.CUNY.EDU>
Sender: Newsletter on Chinese Community <CCNL@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>
>From: Mi Mi <hua7291@MED2CA.ENGR.CCNY.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      CSPAers, Attention Please!
Comments: To: lads-l@spike.rice.edu, ccnl@utarlvm1.uta.edu,
          soc.culture.china@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu,
          talk.politics.china@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: cc: lc-l@ifcss.org
To: Multiple recipients of list CCNL <CCNL@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>

Just got one netter's call from upstate NY.

The situation is, he applied for EB-1 on July 8, 1993. At the same time,
he also applied under CSPA. That is where the trouble started.

When he found out the lads problem with CSPA, he informed Eastern Center
to cancel his CSPA case. Because his wife is not covered by CSPA, she can
not apply under CSPA. But with EB-1, the guy can take his wife along with
him through EB-1, which is current, better than CSPA.

The Eastern Center just ignored him, and approved his CSPA application
anyway. His EB-1 is canceled at the same time, by INS, of course.

Then his wife is out-of-status instantly since she filed only with her
husband under EB-1, and never got a chance to apply as a lad, due
to the time window problem.

Now his wife entered Voluntary Departure Program. It is stupid, INS
officer admited, BUT IT IS THE LAW.

So, maybe it is too late for some of our netters. But if you have lads,
and options other than CSPA, try the other options. CSPA is hazardous
for your lads! Look out, guys!

That should be the well founded reason for the dramastic retrogress
of China's EB-2 category.

As Mi Mi Sr. had said in late July, if the lads are not included in
the CSPA itself, we are in contant trouble! As we now see it, not
only CSPAers and their lads, but also most of our LCers, are in
great trouble! With far less people can utilize EB-1 category
instead of EB-2 and EB-3, and the proposed reduced H1-B time from
six years to three years, many of our LC sisters and brothers can
not even get a chance.

It is the time to take an action, before it is too late.

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
% Post at lads@lucerne.rice.edu                               %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ subdirectory     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 11 13:55:56 1993
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 13:55:56 CST
Message-Id: <9311111952.AA03662@artemis.eng.buffalo.edu>
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From: yjin@eng.buffalo.edu (Y. Jin)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Visa Number for December
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


This is Just For Your Information. DO NOT reply anything to me. I will NOT
answer you. Questions ?  --- mail to LADS network: lads@lucerne.rice.edu.
I may or may not answer you on the net.

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  VISA NUMBER FOR DECEMBER

PREFERENCES
          All Charge-
          ability Areas    CHINA-
          Except Those     mainland  DOMINICAN
          Listed           born      REPUBLIC  INDIA     MEXICO  PHILIPPINES
Family

1st         C               C         C         C       01NOV92   14AUG85

2A*      15MAY91         15MAY91   15MAY91   15MAY91    08MAY91   15MAY91

LB*      15MAY91         15MAY91   15MAY91   15MAY91    15MAY91   15MAY91

2B       22OCT89         22OCT89   12APR89   22OCT89    22OCT89   01APR87

3rd      01OCT91         01OCT91   01OCT91   01OCT91    22JUN85   01MAR83

4th      01JUN84         01JUN84   01JUN84   14FEB83    08DEC81   01JUN77

*NOTE:  For DECEMBER, 2A numbers EXEMPT from per-country limit are available
to applicants from all countries with priority dates earlier than 08MAY91. 
2A numbers SUBJECT to per-country limit are available to applicants
chargeable to all countries EXCEPT MEXICO with priority dates beginning
08MAY91 and earlier than 15MAY91.  (2A numbers subject to per-country limit
are "unavailable" for applicants chargeable to MEXICO.) Applicants qualified
for the "LB" (Spouse/Child of Legalization Beneficiary) category whose
priority date does not permit allocation of a "2A" number under the 2A
cut-off dates above are eligible for an "LB" number as long as their
priority date is earlier than 15MAY91.


        All Charge-
        ability Areas    CHINA-
        Except Those     mainland  DOMINICAN
        Listed           born      REPUBLIC  INDIA     MEXICO   PHILIPPINES

Employment-
  Based

1st         C               C         C         C         C          C

2nd         C            01NOV92      C         C         C          C

3rd         C            01JUL93      C      15JAN93      C       01JUL92

Othe     15JAN88         15JAN88   15JAN88   15JAN88   15JAN88    15JAN88
Workers

4th         C               C         C         C         C       01JAN93

Certain     C               C         C         C         C       01JAN93
Religious
Workers

5th         C               C         C         C         C         C
Targeted    C               C         C         C         C         C
Employment Areas/
Regional Centers

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 11 14:12:19 1993
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:12:19 CST
Message-Id: <9311112008.AA11691@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [LADs are being interviewed]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=
=FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI==FYI=

>From: ****.*** <*****@**************.EDU>

HI, Mi MI Sr.:

I am sending this message to you for broadcasting.  However, please delete
my identity before distribution.

** ****

************************************************************************
LADs are being interviewed for final approval

Now it seems the lads who filed I-485 are being interviewed for the
final approval of their green cards.  This happened in last week in
locaal INS field offices.

You are asked to go with the principal's approval notice, and questions
on the I-485(such as crime, CP memberships, etc) are being repeated
before an examiner.  The medical examination form is also required for the
interview.  The applicants are asked to sign and fingerprint the form to
make the green card.

The examiner told the applicants that formal approval notice will be sent
out when the quota for EB-3 is available.  No any interview is required
after that.

This is all I have after the interview in INS local office.
************************************************************************


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 11 14:18:02 1993
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:18:02 CST
Message-Id: <9311112014.AA11695@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Visa Number for December
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Seems to me EB-2 has moved to 11/01/92? Anyone can comfirm this?

Mi Mi 


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 11 22:26:35 1993
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 22:26:35 CST
Message-Id: <9311120422.AA13533@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: December Visa number 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Hi, I just checked two independent sources, one is netnews at alt.visa.us,
another is today's World Journal. The priority date for EB-3 is July 1, 
1993, and EB-2 is Nov. 1, 1992. 

Just to correct the mistake made by lc-l net Ne.lc-l Newsrelease.

Mi Mi Sr.



From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov 12 09:30:36 1993
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 09:30:36 CST
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: CSPAers At CCNY.CUNY are promised to get tuition refund!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Just for your information, my wife went to the Registrar Office at
CCNY/CUNY. She has been promised to get tuition refund for this semester.
She asked if she can get refund for the previous years, but the school
official did not answer her that directly. 

We should study the Supreme Court Rulings to get a solid legal ground to
fight for the out-state-tuition refund. 

It is our right granted by the Federal Government to pay the in-state-tuition.
I will go to the library to get the original rulings. Once I have it,
I will post the result to the net.

Unite, we can get our money back.

Mi Mi Sr.

Member of Lads-Net Voluntary Committee


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov 12 11:12:37 1993
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 11:12:37 CST
Message-Id: <9311121708.AA14055@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: CSPAers may get out-state-tuition refund from 1989!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Just want to probe the possibility that if we CSPAers may get out-state
tuition refund from 1989. 

Ever since President Bush accounced on 6/5/89, that all the Chinese Nationals
would not be forced back to China, we actually had temparory refugee status
to stay here in the U.S.. Like it or not, we were actually pronounced by the
Federal Government as refugees, although many of us would not like to accept
that. But, it clearly gave us another purpose to stay in the U.S., other
than "sole educational purpose", thus granted us the in-state-tuition
status. 

I believe we have a very strong legal ground to fight for the money back.

Any discussions and comments are welcomed.

For more information on this topic, please see the postings from
David Zhang, from CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU. We had telephone conversations on 
this topic, and it was very informative.

Mi Mi Sr.

Lads-Net Committee

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov 12 20:32:03 1993
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Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 20:32:03 CST
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: INS's respons to Lads-Net' Petition Letter
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 



Mi Mi Sr. has received the official reply from INS. Here it follows.

U.S Department of Justices
Immigration and naturalization Service
HQ 245-C
425 Eye Street N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20536
Nov-5 1993
 
Mr. *** ****
LADs Network Committee
***********************
New York, NY #####
 
Dear Mr. ******,
 
        Attorney General Janet Reno has asked my office to respond 
to your recent letter and accompanying list of 510 co-signers 
concerning the Chinese Student Protection Act of 1992 (CSPA). In 
your letter, you express concerns about dependents of persons who 
have sought lawful permanent resident status under CSPA. Since 
most of these dependents do not qualify for adjustment of status 
under the CSPA because they did not arrive in the United States 
until after April 11, 1990, you refer to them as "Late Arriving 
Dependents" or "Lad's."
 
        You indicate that you are concerned about the length of time 
an LAD may have to wait for an immigrant visa number to become 
available because the China per-country quota has become 
oversubscribed under the third employment-based skilled worker 
preference classification. You recommend that the per-country 
quota be waived for Lad's allowing them to be charged to the 
worldwide quota limitation for third employment-based skilled 
workers.
 
        Although we empathize with your goal of early lawful 
permanent residence for spouse, children, and adult sons and 
daughters of CSPA beneficiaries, the Service cannot provide 
benefits and considerations beyond those allowed by the law. 
Neither the Department of Justice nor the Service has the legal 
authority to waive or otherwise change the limitations that the 
United States Congress has placed on the number of preference 
immigrants who may become lawful permanent residents, unless a 
law enacted by Congress so directs.
 
        The CSPA, which is  a public law enacted by the United 
States Congress, provides the Service with the authority to waive 
the per-country limitations of section 202 of the Immigration and 
Nationality Act (Act) only for persons eligible to adjust status 
under the CSPA. The CSPA does not authorize any waivers for 
persons who are not covered by Executive Order 12711 because they 
arrived in the United States after April 11, 1990, or who are 
otherwise ineligible for CSPA adjustment.
 
        Section 203(d) of the Act allows a CSPA beneficiary's spouse 
and minor children to use the CSPA beneficiary's priority date 
and preference category. However, it does not authorize the 
waiver of the quota limitations or extend other CSPA benefits or 
waivers to ineligible family members.
 
        You have also recommended that the Service establish a 
blanket family unity program to include all lad's. You believe 
that such a program should eliminate the requirement that a non-
immigrant have a residence abroad which he or she has no 
intention of abandoning and the presumption of "immigrant 
intent;" waive the requirements of section 245(c) of the Act and 
allow all lad's who are applying for adjustment of status to be 
regarded as having continuously maintained lawful non-immigrant 
status regardless of their actual immigration history or status; 
provide liberal advance parole benefits; provide employment 
authorization for dependents; and allow adult sons and daughters 
of CSPA beneficiaries to receive derivative immigrant 
classification under section 203(d) of the Act regardless of age 
at the time of application for adjustment of status.
 
        Although we understand your desire to have these liberal 
benefits made available for family members of CSPA beneficiaries, 
the Service must again respond that benefits and considerations 
cannot be provided if they are beyond those allowed under the 
Act.
 
        The Department of Justice and the Service lack the legal 
authority to institute a family unity program encompassing all 
the benefits discussed in your letter. A program offering these 
benefits could not be established without the authorization of 
the United States Congress in the form of a law allowing the 
Service to waive existing provisions of the Act. Absent this type 
of legal direction, the Service must comply with the requirements 
of the Act and with established precedent; the Service cannot 
confer benefits on persons who do not meet the statutory approval 
criteria.
 
        You may wish to contact the United States Department of 
State, which has jurisdiction over immigrant non immigrant visa 
issuance abroad, concerning visas for family members who are not 
in the United States. The Service has been informed that the 
Department of State has indicated that Lad's who are unable to 
adjust status in the United States may be allowed to process 
their immigrant visa applications at Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, 
rather than being required to return to the People's Republic of 
China for this purpose, You should be advised, however, that the 
Department of States must also comply with the requirement of the 
Act relating to visa issuance.
 
        As indicated in the interim rule implementing the CSPA, a 
family member in the United States who is not eligible to adjust 
status may request voluntary departure pursuant to 8 CFR part 
242. Persons who have been granted voluntary departure may 
request employment authorization. A family member who has reasons 
to fear persecution in his or her home country and believes that 
he or she meets the definition of refugee provided in section 101 
(a) (42) of the Act, may request asylum in the United States. The 
existing immigration benefits may be available to qualified 
family members on an individual basis.
 
        Although the Service is unable to comply with the requests 
outlined in your letter, we are pleased to be able to inform you 
that the Service approved over 41,000 applications for CSPA 
adjustment of status prior to October 1, 1993. We have been 
notified by the Department of State that all available immigrant 
visa numbers under the third employment -based skilled worker 
category were used during the fiscal year 1993. Immigrant visa 
numbers remain available for CSPA beneficiaries during October 
1993, and the Service will continue to grant adjustments of 
status for eligible CSPA applicants.
 
        I trust this response has explained the reasons the Service 
is unable to waive quota restrictions or establish the type of 
family fairness program discussed in your letter.
 
Sincerely
 
James A. Puleo
 
Acting Executive Associate
Commissioner, Operations
                                      




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Fri Nov 12 21:01:27 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA22117); Fri, 12 Nov 93 21:01:27 CST
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 21:01:27 CST
Message-Id: <9311130257.AA14369@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re:  CSPAers may get out-state-tuition refund from 1989!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


I just searched my schools library. In US Document Section, I found
"United States Supreme Court Digest". In volume 4, pp 418-419, 
Colleges and Universities, there are several cases.

U.S. Conn. 1973, Vlandis v. Kline, 93 S. Ct. 2230, 412 US 441, 
37 Lawyer's Edition 2d. pp 63

U.S. Md. 1982, Toll v. Moreno, 102 S Ct. 2977

I spent two hours on searching and photocopying. Most of time was spent
in waiting for the turn to use copy machine.

State is entitled to charge out-state-tuition if and only if the student's
sole purpose to stay in that state is educational. Clearly we had other
purpose which was described by E.O 12711. Period. (Vlandis v. Kline)

The second ruling is more complex, I will try my best to describe it to
you. It concerns a group of non-immigrant aliens, whoes purpose of staying
in that state is described by the first case, AND, all the tax treaties
still APPLY.

We need more study on this case. It is our money.  It is our right. 
Nobody will praise you if you do not want your money back. It is 
granted by United State Supreme Court. Law is on our side.

Thanks to all who answered my postings. I suggest we set up
a discussion group on this topic. If we are more prepared (and I
am sure we can) for the argument, we can present them to the school
authorities, and they will refund our out-state-tuition. I do not 
intent to sue my school. That is all.

I would appreciate it very much, if Wu Jun can set up a separat account
for our discussion purposes.

Mi Mi Sr.

 

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sat Nov 13 14:45:57 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: A tuition listserv has been established!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


In order to discuss the out-state-tuition refund for CSPA beneficiaries
from 1989, a list has been established.

Any one who is interested in this subject can subscibe to this list.

Just send an e-mail to listserv@spike.rice.edu, in the mail body, just 
type "SUB TUITION-L Firstname lastname". 

This list serves to the discussions of the legal ground and strategies to
get the CSPAers out-state-tuition refund.

Mi Mi
 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-state-tuition Task force               %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
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% Post at lads@lucerne.rice.edu                               %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ subdirectory     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
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% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
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% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
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From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sat Nov 13 23:19:18 1993
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Subject: New Coming dependents-2
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi, Netters!
     I am a CSPA principal and got PR approved in September. As my mail 
mentioned last month, my wife would hold F-2 non-immigration visa to come 
in America at the end of last month. Right now, when I am filing I-824 
for her to apply for "following to join", I found that her status has been 
changed to B-2 by immigration officer (not muddled) at Los Angles customs. 
This means that my wife's case is different from previous LAD we discussed 
for a long time because she still can keep her valid status in America.
     Since she has been in a legal status, can I still file Form I-824 for
her? If yes, how should I fill "...Please notify the US Consulate at _____"
in part 2.c in Form. Somebody told me that Form I-824 is only for overseas 
dependents or for lost-status dependents in America, is that true?
     Any comments, suggestions and possiblly other ways I could take, will 
be helpful for me. I will appreciate it.

Chris at Houston.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sun Nov 14 11:49:34 1993
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To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 10:45:15 CST
   From: xiachen@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu

   Dear Mi Mi Sr.:

   I am really sorry to see the reply from INS to LADs-NET petition letter.
   I did not see any possibilities to put lads into world-wide quato left-
   over without the joint efforts with ifcss.  

   I wondered how can the dependents oversea can get nonimmigrant visas
   to come to US, with the help from the State Department as suggested 
   in the letter. We might can succeed on this issue.

Mi Mi Sr.'s reply: =============================================

Well, it is very difficult to work without the strongest support from
IFCSS. But IFCSS has her own difficulties. If you check your school's
library, in all those US Document setctions, you will find out how unique
it was for the CSPA. Of course there had been many other factors, but
I addmit finally it IS very difficult to pass another law now. Chinese
and Americans are following two totally different systems. All the time
we find difficulties in understanding each other. All the time we try 
to use Chinese way of thinking to judge the American systems. I guess,
that is partially the reason of the fight among so called EC and LC. While
most EC are more Americanized. 

When I read the letter, I found it was totally within my expectation of
the INS. I hoped there might be some sympathetical mearsures, but actually
there is none. 

For out-of-status lads, the bottom line is met. We can adjust
either under EB-3 when the window is open, or FB-2 when the principal is 
approved. The only difference is the place of the interview. That, should be 
all right for most CSS lads. 

For oversea dependents, I suggest everyone get well prepared for the 
interview. Take a copy of the cable issued by the Department State to
the oversea posts. Show them the sections concerning the dependents
of E.O 12711 beneficiaries. Write a decent letter to make your case
strong, and win the consular's sympathy, and, cross your finger and pray.

What else can we do? 

Of course we Lads-Net Committe will never give up as long as there 
is a lad with no GC. We sent our requests to the White House, the Congress,
and other U.S. officials. We are still waiting for the reply from them.

For your convenience, I have enclosed the Cable in this message. Good Luck.

*******************************************************************************
 
Cables Send to the US Diplomatic and Consular Posts by the State Department
 
*******************************************************************************
 
 
>From Interpreter Release April 30, 1990
 
In 66 Interpreter Releases 1313-16, 1331-32 (Dec. 4, 1989), we reported on a
directive from President Bush ordering the Justice Department to take certain
steps to protect nationals of the People's Republic of China (PRC) in the US.
Also, in interpreter releases 433-34, 477-48 (April 16, 1990) we reported on
the President's executive order fromalizing and expanding the directive.
 
The State Department has now sent two cables implementing the measure.
 
The following is the text of a March 7, 1990 cable (no. 90-State-072222)
sent by the State Department to all diplomatic and consular posts:
 
    Subject: 212(d) (4) (A) Passport Waiver for PRC Chinese
 
    Ref: A) 89 State 398971  B) 89 State 398972  C) State 16987
 
    1. Reftel A reports the President's directive of November 30, 1989,
providing to PRC Chinese who benifit from the Attorney General's June 6 order
deferring the enforced departure for nationals of China: 1) irrevocable waiver
of 212(e) which may be exercised until January 1, 1994; 2) assurance of conti-
nued lawful immigration status; 3) authorization for employment; and 4) notice
of expiration of nonimmigrant status, rather than institution of deportation
proceedings. The remaining reftal all described moves, primarily by the
immigration and naturalization service (INS), to immplement the directive.
 
    2. It has come to the Department's attention that some PRC Chinese covered
under the directive may have difficulty renewing their passports through
Chinese authorities. Earlier the INS had provided to PRC students and exchange
visitors in such circumstances, who were present in the US on or before June 5,
1989, waiver of the passport requirement for purposes of determining
nonimmigrant benefits. This provision pertained only to the maitenance of
nonimmigtant status and did not waiver the normal passport and visa requirement
for readmission following a period of temporary absence from the United States.
 
    3. However, consular officers were reminded that PRC Chinese who fall under
the provisions of the directive and who are not in possession of a valid
passport, as required under INA 212(A) (26), may benefit from a passport waiver
to reture to the US under INA 212 (D) (4) (A). Such requests should be referred
to the Department (CA/VO/F/P) noting the special circumstances and containing
the information in 22 CFR 41.3, n3, Department will seek the concurrence of the
INS for waivers in these cases.
 
The second cable (no. 90-State-132203), which expands on the first, was on
April 25 to all diplomatic and consular posts:
 
    Subject: Travel Documents for PRC Nationals Under Executive Order
 
    Ref: State 121941
 
    1. The President's executive order of April 11, 1990, which was reported in
Reftel to all diplomatic and consular posts, improves the immigration status of
PRC visitors who were present in the US on or after June 5, 1989, up to and
including April 11, 1990, the date of the order. The order is intended to
assure PRC nationals in the US that they will not be forced to reture to China
against their will before January 1, 1994. Protections are extended to all
Chinese present in the US as of the designated dates, or if not present, whose
temporary stay was interrupted by a brief, casual, and innocent departure. The
order does not cover PRC nationals who were present in the US within the
period of the designated dated but who concluded their temporary visit and
voluntarily left the US (e.g. an H-2B worker who completed his contract and
returned home, or a bussiness visitor who participated in various meetings and
left the conclusion of his business.)
 
    2. Section 2(B) of the order directs the Secretary of State and the
Attorney General to take all steps necessary with respect to PRC national
described in para one to provide necessary documents "both within the US and at
a US consulates overseas; to facilitate travel across the borders of other
nations and reentry into the US in the same status such PRC nationals had upon
departure."
 
    3. The Immigration and Naturalization Service will issue authorization for
advance parole (Form I-512) to PRC national who request it to allow such
travel. The I-512 is a single sheet, 8 1/2 by 11, which reatures a photograph
of the bearer and embossed seal. The I-512 issued to PRC nationals under the
order will be annotated to allow reentry in the same status in which the PRC
national departed the United States.
 
    4. It is expected that most PRC nationals departing the US will obtain the
I-512 to assure reentry. Some PRC nationals may seek a visa at a consulate or
embassy abroad to reentry the United States. In all cases in which the
applicant is covered by the President's Executive Order, posts are required to
accept the application for processing. If a visa is not issued as a result of
the application, and no other ready means of reentering the US is avialable to
the applicant, the post must submit the case for action to the Department
(CA/VO/F/P) and INS Central Office (COFOR, COADN) explaining why a visa may
not be issued and seeking guidance on alternative documentation available to
allow reentry the alien to the US.
 
    5. Any PRC national who was in the United States in legal status on or
after June 5, 1989, up to an and including April 11, 1990, will be considered
to have maintained lawful status for purposes of adjustment of status in the
United States under INA Sec. 245. Those who were not in lawful status as of
June 5, and are not eligible to adjust status under INA Sec. 245, will be
required to apply abroad for immigrant status. Immigrant visa issuing posts are
hereby directed by authority of the Department under 22 CFR 42.61(A) to accept
for processing the cases of those PRC aliens in the United States who claim to
qualify under the Executive order and who request acceptance of an application
for immigrant visa on a discretionary basis. According to the best available
data, Department does not expect the increase in workload as a result of the
acceptance of such cases to be significant.
 
    6. Section 2(A) of the President's Executive Order waives the passport
requirement through January 1, 1994, for all PRC nationals covered under the
order. If such nationals apply for a nonimmigrant visa, and are not in
possession of a valid passport, posts may issue the visa on Form OF-232 per 22
CFR 41.113(B)(3). In such cases, posts should prepare a letter to the INS
inspector at port of entry indicating that a passport waiver has been granted
under 212(D)(4)(A) per the authority granted in the president's Executive Order
of April 11, 1990 (See 22 CFR 41.2 N(4)).
 
    7. Waiver of the passport requirement for PRC natinals applying for
immigrant visas is already covered under 22 CFR 42.2(F). This section exempts
from the passport requirement for an immigrant visa: "An alien who is a
national of a Communist-controlled country and who is unable to obtain a
passport from the government of that country, and accompanying spouse and
unmarried son or daughter." Consular officers should prepare a letter to be
attached to the visa packet noting that the passport requirement has been
waived under the stated section and according to the President's Executive
Order of April 11, 1990.
 
    8. if a PRC alien applied for a replacement I-512 at a consular office
abroad, post should refer the request to INS central Office (COFOR, COADN) and
the Department (CA/VO/F/P) for guidance.
 
    9. In keeping with INA Section 291, the burden of proof for demonstrating
entitlement to an entry document rests with the applicant. In the case of PRC
nationals claiming to qualify under the President's order, it is the alien's
responsibility to show that he or she was present in the US on the designated
dates and therefor is covered under the order. All pertinent sections of the
Immigrantion and Nationality Act still apply, and all requirements of the visa
under the Act should be met before issurance.
 
    10. The attention of posts is also drawn to Section 6 of the President's
Executive Order, which directs the Department of Justice and State "to consider
other steps to assist such PRC nationals in their efforts to utilize the
protections that I have extended pursuant to this order." In keeping withthis
provision and with the spirit of the Executive Order, posts are requested to
give sympathetic consideration to applications of all PRC Chinese who are
affected by the order. Though PRC Chinese family members outside the US are not
covered under the order, posts should give sympathetic consideration to
applications of derivative status applicants seeking to join principal aliens
in the US who are covered under the order and whom the President has permitted
to remain until 1994.
 
    11. Please contact the Department (CA/CO/F/P) for further guidance in any
case in which post is unsure fo its obligations under the order or in which
post is unsure whether an alien qualifies under the order for a claimed
benefit.
******************************************************************************                                                 
Mi Mi Sr.

 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov 15 12:54:47 1993
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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 12:54:47 CST
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: out-state-tuition refund discussion list
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 



This listserv is made possible by the system manager, Jun Wu, at Rice
University, a long time supporter of CSS network activities. Let us thank
him first. Mi Mi Sr., as the originator of this list, now administrates
all the listserv activities.

First of all, let us set our goals of this list. Without clear guidelines
and goals, nothing is possible.  

1) Set up of Nationwide and Local Committees

We are working on the out-state-tuition refund project. Since the policy
of charging out-state-tuition varies from state to state, we are now
working mainly at the Federal level. Any local policy discussions are
welcomed here on the nationwide net, but local coordination is very much
encouraged since the people from other states may not be familiar with
your local policies. So, we need to set up a nation-wide committee, as
well as local committees. All the committee members are volunteers.

2) Find the solutions to the out-state-tuition refund

Some netters are asking me for solutions. I am sorry I do not have any.
We are going to find out. This net serves this purpose.
The United States Laws are very complicated. There are Federal Laws
and Local Laws. We are now discuss the legal basis of claiming as
in-state students according the United States Supreme Court (U.S.S.Ct.)'s
rulings. We will start from two landmark rulings, Vlandis vs. Kline (1973),
and Toll vs. Moreno (1982). The first addresses the right of the State to
charge more to out-state students, and the in-state criteria based on
the "purpose of stay in that State". The second addresses the right of
a non immigrant student to be an in-state student for tuition purposes.
One big question mark is the "Tax Treaty" problem. According to the 
United States Supreme Court (U.S.S.Ct.)'s ruling on Toll vs. Moreno (1982), 
International Tax Treaties are honored by the Federal Government,
local government (refer to the state) has nothing to do with 
them. Besides, local schools have no right to ask us to show them our 
tax returns, if they do not ask our U. S. Citizen classmates 
to do so. This argument, is based on the Fourteenth Amendment 
to the U. S. Constitution, which liberated all the slaves (?)

3) My proposed strategies:

a) We should go to the libraries to study the case. This net serves as a 
discussion and coordinating group, and every member should contribute 
in the legal battle. I hope some netters with scanning capabilities can
help to scan the legal documents into the network, some netters who have
the access to the legal database can help us to get legal clues, download
them, and send them to the network. We now have a ftp site at spike to keep
all the postings to this net.

b) When we finish the major legal study, we may have all the information
we need. Then we can begin to compose our letters to the local schools,
asking the out-state-tuition refund. At this stage, we can seek the support
and co-signers from all the CSS EC graduates. As we are gaining the
momentum, some schools may give in.

c) There might be some schools leftover to stand for their out-state-tuition
charges. Then at this stage, it is perfect to take legal actions. As per
United States Supreme Court (U.S.S.Ct.)'s rulings, our chance of winning
is great. The losing schools will have to pay the legal fee, and we winners
will get our money back.

But the law suit is the last resort I am looking for. I prefer to ask
school authorities to consider our case, and provide them with the
strongest arguments we could find. If they refund our money, then every
CSS can refund their money based on the same argument. But we must get
prepared well in this regard. Otherwise, there is little hope.

As for the tax purposes, first, if you fear you might be asked to pay
more tax, and it is in disadvantage to your case, you might keep quiet
on this matter. Many States do charge in-state tuition to CSS after
they stayed in that state for one year, and CSS still enjoyed the Tax
Treaty benefits. There is no logic relations between the tax status 
and the in-state-tuition charges.

As for the rights and obligations, we should keep in mind that we paid
local taxes. Sales tax, gas, phone bills, all of these have state and
local taxes. We pay rent to the landlord, and the landlord pay property
tax to the local government. Property tax is known as "school taxes",
which, is for the schools. So, do not feel guilty if you ask the refund.
If a court ruling says you win, you win. If the school decides it should
refund you, then it is your money. We are going to pay more local taxes
later on. Your state never spent a penny on your education back in China, 
and you will pay more local taxes throughout your life. It is not fair 
for us to pay out-state-tuition if there are precedents say the otherwise.


United, we can GET the difference!

Mi Mi Sr.


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%         & In-State-Tuition National Interim Committee       %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov 15 16:06:47 1993
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To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: questions on "lads" and "voluntary departure" (fwd)
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 14:59:09 -0600 (CST)
>From: qinliu@emx.cc.utexas.edu
To: Multiple recipients of ccnl <LISTSERV@UTARLVM1.UTA.EDU>
Subject: questions on "lads" and "voluntary departure"

I am one of those unfortunate "late arrival dependents". I guess I will
enter the "Voluntary departure program" when I submit the PR application
to INS. I would appreciate if anyone could help me with the follwing
questions: 
1. Do "lads" have to leave the U.S. after missing the August window? If
yes, When? Right after the submission of the application, the time informed by
INS, or right before the approval of the application?
2. What are the forms required to be filled out?
3. How long is the waiting period?

Any message sending directly to me or though the ccnl will be very
appreciated! 

My address is qinliu@emx.cc.utexas.edu




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov 15 16:17:45 1993
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: home visit
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 15:44:48 -0500
   From: Charles Feng <sfeng@cc.gatech.edu>

   Dear Mi Mi Sr.
	   Do you know people who have been approved PR but have not received
   the actual green card enter and exit China without problem? If you can't
   give me positive answer, could you help me post this question to the LAD
   net? Thanks.

   Charles

I do not think it is a problem. You may ask the guy who posted his
China visit series. I do not believe he had a plastic card, if he is
EC6 himself.

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
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% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
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From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov 15 23:56:07 1993
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

This is a message sent on behalf of a person who can not access to computer 
network. She needs help from some netter who knows what to do after I-824
was approved for out of status LAD. Any advice are appreciated.

The CSPA principle filed I-824 for her husband after her I-485 was approved. 
Her husband was out of status at the time she filed I-485. She received the 
approval notice for I-824 last week. There were only two sentences on the 
notice as:
The above application has been approved. We have notified the consulate listed 
above (Guangzhou) that the applicant's status has been adjusted to that of a 
lawful permanent resident.

What should she do now? Can Mi Mi, Sr. or some one else give an answer? Thanks
in advance.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 16 09:08:48 1993
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 09:08:48 CST
Message-Id: <9311161504.AA18068@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

HUA@neu.edu wrote:
   This is a message sent on behalf of a person who can not access to computer 
   network. She needs help from some netter who knows what to do after I-824
   was approved for out of status LAD. Any advice are appreciated.

   The CSPA principle filed I-824 for her husband after her I-485 was approved. 
   Her husband was out of status at the time she filed I-485. She received the 
   approval notice for I-824 last week. There were only two sentences on the 
   notice as:
   The above application has been approved. We have notified the consulate listed 
   above (Guangzhou) that the applicant's status has been adjusted to that of a 
   lawful permanent resident.

   What should she do now? Can Mi Mi, Sr. or some one else give an answer? Thanks
   in advance.

======================
Mi Mi Sr. has just got one the same as yours. He applied for "Shanghai" before
realizing there is only one in China where to process I-485, that is GuangZhou.
Some netter said on the net (you can check lads-l back copies at spike)
the consulate will inform your dependent for processing. We need more info 
on this. May be ak a lawyer, or check with a good immigration hand book.
There are several good tittles backup at spike, lads-l depository site.

Mi Mi Sr.


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 16 11:11:44 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA00270); Tue, 16 Nov 93 11:11:44 CST
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 11:11:44 CST
Message-Id: <9311161702.AA18151@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: A tuition listserv has been established!
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Dear SHEN,XIU-LI:

We DID pay income taxes, and no one is tax free in the America. We may
not pay anything if we do not have any taxable income. But that does not
disqualify anyone from getting the in-state-status. Suppose a child with
no income goes to college. He/she is still eligible for the in-state-tuition.
A G-4 alien, without any work permission, is eligible for in-state-tuition.

We paid our telephone bills, rents, sales taxes, etc. Some of those go to 
the local government. The rent, which includs "Property Tax", is known
as school tax.

Thank you for sharing your ideas!

Mi Mi Sr.

your message follows=====================================

   Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 11:41:32 -0500
   From: gt5733b@prism.gatech.edu (SHEN,XIU-LI)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
   Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

   In article <9311132039.AA14957@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu> you write:
   >
   >In order to discuss the out-state-tuition refund for CSPA beneficiaries
   >from 1989, a list has been established.
   >
   >Any one who is interested in this subject can subscibe to this list.
   >
   >
   Is there anyone interested in pay the income tax after you people get
   your CSPA status. If the answer is YES, the you can discuss how to
   get in-state tution. If the answer is No or MAY BE, then I don't
   think you have the right to pay in-state tuition.
   Just send an e-mail to listserv@spike.rice.edu, in the mail body, just 
   >type "SUB TUITION-L Firstname lastname". 
   >
   >This list serves to the discussions of the legal ground and strategies to
   >get the CSPAers out-state-tuition refund.
   >
   >Mi Mi
   > 
   >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
   >% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
   >%                 & In-state-tuition Task force               %
   >% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
   >%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
   >%    SUB TUITION-L Firstname Lastname, or signoff TUITION-L   %
   >% Post at lads@lucerne.rice.edu                               %
   >% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ subdirectory     %
   >% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
   >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
   >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
   >% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
   >% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
   >%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
   >% Post at lads@lucerne.rice.edu                               %
   >% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ subdirectory     %
   >% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
   >%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


   -- 
   SHEN,XIU-LI
   Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
   uucp:     ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt5733b
   Internet: gt5733b@prism.gatech.edu


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 16 12:15:18 1993
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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 12:15:18 CST
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9311161257.A8541-0100000@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: if76@jove.acs.unt.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: Bainan Ni <if76@jove.acs.unt.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: ask for help
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

 Hi,fellow. If I want to post something on the network while I don't want 
my name appear on it, how can I do it? You delete my name after you receive 
my mail,or I do something to change it? I admit that I know nothing about 
those network. Can someone out there tell me the instruction of how to 
make an anonymous post just as clearly as the procedure of how to sign on 
different networks?



From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 16 12:34:22 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA00586); Tue, 16 Nov 93 12:34:22 CST
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 12:34:22 CST
Message-Id: <9311161829.AA14271@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c8.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: ask for help
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

use chfn on your dec to change your names.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 09:40:41 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA03687); Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:40:41 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 09:40:41 CST
Message-Id: <9311171520.AA00332@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: cheng@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu
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From: cheng@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: INS's respons to Lads-Net' Petition Letter
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Finally INS responded our petition letter, although there is nothing new.

The response clarifies the out-of-status dependents should go abroad for interviews ( it is
good to see that they are able to go to a third country).  But surprisingly a friend of mine who filed I-485
for her out-of-status dependent in July got an interview appointment scheduled on Dec.12 at
Newark, NJ.  Any comments of this case?

Frank.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 10:51:46 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA03799); Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:51:46 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:51:46 CST
Message-Id: <9311171647.AA18886@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: INS's respons to Lads-Net' Petition Letter
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Frank wrote:
   Finally INS responded our petition letter, although there is nothing new.
   The response clarifies the out-of-status dependents should go abroad for 
   interviews (it is good to see that they are able to go to a third country).
   But surprisingly a friend of mine who filed I-485 for her out-of-status 
   dependent in July got an interview appointment scheduled on Dec.12 at
   Newark, NJ. Any comments of this case?
   Frank.

Mi Mi Sr. writes:

There are differences between what INS says in the Interim Rule, Cables and 
the procedures which INS carrys out. Just remind you guys that INS said in 
the Cables that a principal who was DED prior to Oct. 9, 1992 and had not
applied any E.O. 12711 benefits would expect an interview? Several of my
friends fell into this category. However, they got approved right away 
without any interviews!

Also 90-day-rule was stated as "statutory", but in one case a lady with
102-day was approved. Seems to me at the examiner's level, it is sometimes
more liberal than at HQ's level! May be it is the reason why there are so
many fraud cases!

Anyway, any lad is guaranteed a greencard. Go to another country or not
does not make any difference for the outcome. If I were the examiner, I
would approve you guys without any interview! That would save me lots
of trouble!

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 11:19:36 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA04024); Wed, 17 Nov 93 11:19:36 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 11:19:36 CST
Message-Id: <9311171714.AA01200@wildcat.rice.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: renjian@wildcat.rice.edu
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From: Renjian Lu <renjian@wildcat.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


> From lads-l@spike.rice.edu Wed Nov 10 00:52:35 1993
> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 00:54:21 CST
> Reply-To: sli@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
> Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
> Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
> From: sli@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Shi Li)
> To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
> Subject: Lad application in Houston INS
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 
> Content-Length: 222
> 
> I applied for PR as a lad through I-485 in Houston INS about 3 months ago and
> have not heard anything from them yet. Any one in Hoston has same or different
> situation? What should I do after 90days ?
> Thx for any comments.
> 

1. FYI, my lads just got their interview notices yesterday.  We filed I-485
   in Houston in late Aug.

2. BTW, does anybody has an experience about how long a physical examination
   could be valid.  My lads had the examination done before filing I-485 and
   the forms were not needed then.  I wonder if these examinations can still
   be used at the interview, as there will be more then 3 months old.

renjian

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 13:38:12 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA04203); Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:38:12 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:38:12 CST
Message-Id: <199311171926.LAA24590@stanclinpharm.Stanford.EDU>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: tang@stanclinpharm.stanford.edu (Jian-ping Tang)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Finger print or not
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

I am CSPA principle. I received a letter (a white sheet) from Northern Certer 
saying that it is not necessary to go to local INS for the second finger print
since I already had my I-89 be completed previously.  But after 2 weeks I 
continuously received two letters from Northern Center saying that I should go  to local office have the final process be completed.  These letters confused me.
I do not know I should go or not.  Could anyone help me up. 

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 13:58:13 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA04262); Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:58:13 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 13:58:13 CST
Message-Id: <9311171956.AA24266@summit.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu>
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: Ping Ding <ping@summit.atmos.colostate.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re:Finger print or not
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

>I am CSPA principle. I received a letter (a white sheet) from  
>Northern Certer 

>saying that it is not necessary to go to local INS for the second  
>finger print
>since I already had my I-89 be completed previously.  But after 2  
>weeks I 

>continuously received two letters from Northern Center saying that I  
>should go  to local office have the final process be completed.   
>These letters confused me.
>I do not know I should go or not.  Could anyone help me up.

I don't think that you need to repeat your final processing. I know
several people they have the same situation as yours. Some of them
went to the local INS office, others called the INS center directly,
the answers are same: No necessary to do that stuff again. Nobody  
knows what's going on in Northern Center. Maybe IFCSS can ask them.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 17:33:36 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA04638); Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:33:36 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:33:36 CST
Message-Id: <28213112@um.cc.umich.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: Qinghuang.Lin@um.cc.umich.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: Qinghuang.Lin@um.cc.umich.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Info Needed:  Lad Interview in Detroit
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Detroit INS started interviewing Lads this week.  Can those who have gone
through the interview post your experience on the net?  Info such as the
length of the interview, questions asked, things to bring with is
particularly appreciated.
 

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 17:38:27 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA04680); Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:38:27 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:38:27 CST
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Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: Qinghuang.Lin@um.cc.umich.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Info Needed:  Lad Interview in Detroit
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Detroit INS started interviewing Lads this week.  Can those who have gone
through the interview post your experience on the net?  Info such as the
length of the interview, questions asked, things to bring with is
particularly appreciated.
 
 

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 17:46:55 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA04737); Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:46:55 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:46:55 CST
Message-Id: <9311172343.AA19282@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: lads interview
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


You may ftp the back copies at spike to check. Remember some postings
are very useful.

Mi Mi 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 17 21:57:40 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA05399); Wed, 17 Nov 93 21:57:40 CST
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 21:57:40 CST
Message-Id: <m0p00RN-000HaUC@seas.smu.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: jw@seas.smu.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: jw@seas.smu.edu (Jianglin Wang)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: lad interview
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi,
some netters want to know the process of lad interview. I went to Dallas
INS office two weeks ago with my son. Because he is a little boy, a 
lady there did not ask him any quastions. But she did ask me a few.
It seems that she most concerned if I have been kept my lawful status
through June 30 1993. So I think to take the interview, you should 
bring every document you have, for both principle and lad. Most 
important, all the I-20 or IAP-66's as the prove you kept you student 
status. If you don't have all, you may ask a copy from your school's
international atudent office. you need your approve letter, of cource.
Anyway, if you don't bring all the documents required, you may mail
it to INS later.

good luck to every one.

jw

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 09:43:05 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA07159); Thu, 18 Nov 93 09:43:05 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 09:43:05 CST
Message-Id: <9311181538.AA03996@wildcat.rice.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: renjian@wildcat.rice.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: Renjian Lu <renjian@wildcat.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: physical examination
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


After I posted the question of physical examination, I got a number of 
answers.  All of them told me it's good for one year, except one said 6 
months.  The 1-y period was also confirmed by a Houston INS info officer 
yesterday.  I'm posting this info to the net for the benefit of others 
who may seek for similar answers.  Be alter that this policy may vary 
elsewhere.

Thanx for providing the info and good luck everybody.

renjian

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 11:34:37 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA07465); Thu, 18 Nov 93 11:34:37 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 11:34:37 CST
Message-Id: <9311181730.AA19686@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: [Call for national and local coordinators]
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

To: Multiple recipients of list <tuition-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Call for national and local coordinators
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Out-State-Tuition-Refund-Discussion-List


As of today, we have more 130 netters on this net. I set up this 
network hoping to help all the CSPAers getting their in-state status
established, and the over-paid out-state-tuition refunded. But surely
I can not work on my own on this regard. Some kind of national and
local coordinations must be established and organized. This net, serves
as an information exchange and discussion forum. 

I have selected several netters who showed interests in the dicussion
as the Interim National Committee members. Of course all of the members
are volunteers, and the door is open for all of the netters to come and
go. If anyone is interested in contribute some of his/her time to take 
part in our collective effort, please drop me a line so I can add you in
the committee. There is no inside stories. Everything which is informative
to the general public will be posted to the whole net. So if you are only
interested in the information, just stay in the net.

As of today, according to the replies from the committees members,
many states impose out-state-tuition to CSPAer for one more year. GA
even says GC is not enough. As a matter of fact, Supreme Court says
the otherwise. When I read through the cases, and compare them with 
my schools regulations, I am conviced we can win, at least case by case.
All the rules made by my school confirm the Supreme Court Rulings (that
is the Federal Law, not a joke). So the proper way for us to do is
to find the right seats for ourselves. Only after carefully studying
the Supreme Court Rulings and your schools regulations, can you win
back your money.

Please join our collective effort by signing in our Interim Committees!

Mi Mi Sr.

Interim Committee

 

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 12:57:49 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA07755); Thu, 18 Nov 93 12:57:49 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 12:57:49 CST
Message-Id: <9311181853.AA29407@bach.convex.com>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: guo@bach.convex.com
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: guo@bach.convex.com (Yi Guo)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: tuition refund project
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

What is it actually about?

Is it that CSPAers can start paying in-state after the granting of PR,
or is it that CSPAers can collect all those out-of-state tuitions they
paid during these 3 years (from April 90)?

As for Univ. of Texas system, I know that a PR have to stay in Texas for
over a year to qualify for in-state tuition.  But I may be wrong or
the legislature may be wrong (if there is some federal laws indicating
otherwise).

I would be very interested in the efforts to win back all those tuitions
I have paid in the years.  Please clarify this point and tell me I am day
dreaming.  Thanks!

- Jimmy

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 14:38:21 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA07922); Thu, 18 Nov 93 14:38:21 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 14:38:21 CST
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9311181441.A13629-9100000@emx.cc.utexas.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: qinliu@emx.cc.utexas.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: qinliu@emx.cc.utexas.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: questions on final approval
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

	Now it seems that the lads have to go to any other country for getting a
visa. If one(now in the U.S.) has a choice to go to either China or Mexico, I
would like to know what you guys would suggest? Or it depends totally on
what INS tells you?
	 Any response on this question will be appreciated.




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 16:10:25 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08073); Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:10:25 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:10:25 CST
Message-Id: <9311182206.AA19839@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Subject: tuition and more

caomath@matt.ksu.ksu.edu wrote:
   Hi,
      I am watching your effort to get tuition back. Before you ask for the
   tuition back, I suggest you review the regulation carefully. As I understand
   in some states, GC is not enough for in-state tuition. At least it is true
   in Kansas. An american citizen from other state has to stay in Kansas and
   full time work for one year before s/he can apply for residency, i.e. paying
   in-state tuition. Since most people will not quit school and work full time
   for one year here, none of them could not pay in-state tuition.
      Another impact of this move is that the image of CSS in usa may get
   damaged by such action. You cannot get benifits from both countries at
   the same time. How  would you feel about getting tax treaty exemption
   and getting in-state tuition? I am too shame to do that.
      This is not the rights issue, it seems to many of us the greedyness
   of  Chinese nature. I know some of our brothers and systers here who
   demostrate remarkable ability of greedyness, take what ever it is 
   availabel to them or may not be available to them and never contribute
   anything in return. Those Chinese are really damage the image of CSS
   here. 
     I sent this message to you personally to voice my concern. Do not
   want to publicly express my sadness. I thank you for reading my mail.

   Qiushi Cao
   Kansas State University
   caomath@matt.ksu.ksu.edu

=Mi Mi Sr. replies =Mi Mi Sr. replies=Mi Mi Sr. replies=Mi Mi Sr. replies

Dear Qiushi Cao

Thank you for your reply. I realy appreciate your time and energy.
As to my understanding, Different states have different policies. But
they must abide the Federal laws. Some states have  been challenged,
some have not. It is understandablely even American Citizens some times
do have to pay out-state tuition, but it does not disqualify a CSPAer
from getting in-state tuition.

As a matter of fact, A lawgful PR has resided in the state is classified 
as in-state. An non-immigration alien can also be classified as in-state.
Holding a non-immigration visa does not mean you are not eligible for 
in-state. Having contributed to the state tax is, of course, a major 
fact that a student is classified as in-state. But in fact, a 18-years
old freshman, usually has not to contributed to the state, while his 
parents do. When his parents have contributed to the state, they have 
passed the school age. An orphan, who has no parents to pay tax, is also 
an in-state. You may not have contributed to the state, but you will in 
the future. So, it is your relation to the state, that decides your 
in-state status.

Let us look at three landmark rulings:

In Vlandis v. Kline. Mrs. Kline had been a CA resident before she married
her CT husband and transfered to U. Conn. She was charged by U. Conn as 
out-state. Her permenant address was then in CT, of course less than one
year, at the time of registration. US Supreme Court ruled that she was
bona fide CT resident, and it was unconstitutional to charge her 
out-state tuition. (Georgia Tech says marrying a GA resident qualifys
you as in-state, exactly as this case)

In Toll v. Moreno, and Elkins v. Moreno Cases, a group of non-immgration
students (G-4) were denied by U. MD as in-state. US Supreme Court ruled 
that their non-immgrant status did not disqualify their in-state status. 
Their financial supporters worked for international organizations and 
companies. Furthermore, the US Supreme Court ruled that, their financial 
supporters' (IMPORTANT HERE!) tax treaty benefits, did not disqualify 
their dependents from obtaining in-state status. It is ruled that, 
the international treaties MUST be honored regardless of in-state 
status of their dependents, and local taxes. 


I am not advocating claiming in-state-status for all the CSPAers
unconditionally. Many have to be handled case by case. My wife 
got her 6.4 work permission in 1990, and worked, paid tax in 
1990. In 1991, she entered graduate school and was charged as 
out-state students. Clearly, I believe she was eligible for the 
out-state-tuition refund, and I am looking for the legal background
to to so.

One perfect case is, if your spouse had been working and paying 
taxes, you should be eligible for in-state tuition for whatever
reasons.

One thing I do not agree with you, but I am glad you had pointed it
out very frankly, is the so called "greedness". To some, maybe, 
to some, maybe not. If the state regulation says it is your money,
then no one can say you are greedy. It is the fairness of the law.

Before I took my position on this subject, I carefully weighted the
impact of it. As a long time activist of the lads-l volunteer, I
assume I had my reputation, and can get many netters attention. All
I wish to do, is to point out, it is possible for you guys to get 
back your over-paid money in many cases. It is your rights, do not
miss it. If it is only for my personal greediness, why bother to
point it out to the public?

Any comments are welcomed

Yours truthfully

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 16:37:28 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08196); Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:37:28 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:37:28 CST
Message-Id: <9311182232.AA19891@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Help wanted in sharing the scnning task
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Hi, we need volunteers to help CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu to scan the 
the material into the computer so we can post it to the net. 
Currently CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu has scaned case 2. Anyone who
has scanning capabilities please contact me or Cai.

Also we need someone to proof read the scanned material.

Mi Mi Sr.

=Messages follows ==Messages follows ==Messages follows ==Messages follows =

Hi, Yidao Cai, thanks for your offer. I checked my library again to make
sure everything is okay so you will not wast your time in finding these
references. Please drop me a line when you receive this e-mail, and
tell me the approximate time it will take you to scan the material. Thanks
again for your kindly offer!

Titlle of the Book:United States Supreme Court Reports
                   Lawyers Edition, 2nd series,
Published by:      The Lawyer Co-operative Publishing Co.
                   Rochester, New York 14603
                   Bancroft-Whitney Co.
                   San Francisco, CA

Case 1: Vlandis v. Kline, 
                   93 S.Ct. 2230, 412 US 441
                   Volume 37, page 63 - 81

Case 2: Wilson H Elkins v. Juan Carlos Moreno
                   98 S.Ct. 1338, 435 US 647
                   Volume 55, pp 614 - 636

Case 3: John s Toll v. Juan Carlos Moreno
                   102 S.Ct. 2977, 458 US 1
                   Volume 73, pp 563 - 597

I am not sure this is the only edition in the States. If your library 
carries another edition, or from another publisher, may be you have to 
start all over again. I found the information this way: there is a 
key to the subject: Colleges and Universities, in that section, find
Taxation (case 3) and Tuitin (case 1 & 2).


Thanx for your offer again. Looking forward to hearing from you!

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%



From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 16:52:00 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08267); Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:52:00 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:52:00 CST
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9311181652.C60715-0100000@acc.wuacc.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: zzsu@acc.wuacc.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: J Su <zzsu@acc.wuacc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Help wanted in sharing the scnning task
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 



On Thu, 18 Nov 1993, Mi Mi wrote:

> 
> Hi, we need volunteers to help CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu to scan the 
> the material into the computer so we can post it to the net. 
> Currently CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu has scaned case 2. Anyone who
> has scanning capabilities please contact me or Cai.
> 
> Also we need someone to proof read the scanned material.
> 
> Mi Mi Sr.
> 
If you want I can download these cases for you from online databases, but 
you can't use them in public.  You can only read them privately.

Jie




From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 17:07:50 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08337); Thu, 18 Nov 93 17:07:50 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 17:07:50 CST
Message-Id: <9311182303.AA19964@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: CSPA & In-State-Tuition
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Again, as some netters pointed out, a citizenship is not good enough
for the in-state-tuition. Sure, PR is not good enough too. 

My point is, as a non-immigrant, you may be eligible for in-state-tuition
under certain conditions.

My niece was an F-1er at U. Wisc.. She had been able to pay in-state-tuition
all the way through while many other CSS F-1ers could not. 

In CSPA's case, many of us or our spouses got 6.4. WP, and worked. That 
was enough to qualify you as an in-state-student in many states. Find out
if you are eligible for that. If not, find the differene between the 
local and federal laws and make your decision. 

If your school's regulation says you are in-state, then you are. If school
says no, challenge your school if your school violates the U.S. 
Constitution.

I wish my message can relief some of the financial hardship many of our
CSPAers are facing right now. 

Best wishes, and good luck every body.

Mi Mi Sr.


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 17:13:48 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08394); Thu, 18 Nov 93 17:13:48 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 17:13:48 CST
Message-Id: <9311182305.AA19968@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Help wanted in sharing the scnning task
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Thank you very much for your offer! I will follow your instructions
to use the material.


Mi Mi Sr.
============your message follows ===========


   Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:44:52 -0600 (CST)
   From: J Su <zzsu@acc.wuacc.edu>
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



   On Thu, 18 Nov 1993, Mi Mi wrote:

   > 
   > Hi, we need volunteers to help CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu to scan the 
   > the material into the computer so we can post it to the net. 
   > Currently CAI@neurophys.wisc.edu has scaned case 2. Anyone who
   > has scanning capabilities please contact me or Cai.
   > 
   > Also we need someone to proof read the scanned material.
   > 
   > Mi Mi Sr.
   > 
   If you want I can download these cases for you from online databases, but 
   you can't use them in public.  You can only read them privately.

   Jie





From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 18:24:32 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08490); Thu, 18 Nov 93 18:24:32 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 18:24:32 CST
Message-Id: <9311190019.AA20052@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Huai Huang <***%*****.*****@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:

   Mr. Quishi Cao wrote in his message: I sent this message to you PERSONALLY
   to voice my concern. Do NOT want to PUBLICLLY express my sadness.

Hi, Huai Huang, you are right. My apologies.

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 19:24:10 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08705); Thu, 18 Nov 93 19:24:10 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 19:24:10 CST
Message-Id: <9311190127.AA04938@econ.duke.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: huibingz@econ.duke.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: huibingz@econ.duke.edu (Huibing Zhang)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: sign off
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Thank you for your very helpful info. Please sign me off LAD news net.
My email address: huibingz@keynes.econ.duke.edu
If this is a wrong address to sign off, please direct me
the right address. Thank you.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 19:34:01 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08806); Thu, 18 Nov 93 19:34:01 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 19:34:00 CST
Message-Id: <199311190130.UAA23075@terminus.cc.gatech.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: Charles Feng <sfeng@cc.gatech.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: F-1 visa advice wanted
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi all,
	A friend of mine is going to apply for F-1 visa at
GuangZhou very soon. I've been out of the country for a while, so
ain't very sure how the Consulates are considering student visa now.
If you have some successful experience or useful advice, I will greatly 
appreciate it if you could email that to me. This is probably not
related to LAD issue, but since I find that many subscribers to this
net are very willing to give out help and advice, I am hoping to
collect some suggestions for my friends. 
	
	Many thanks!

Charles

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 18 20:23:03 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA08997); Thu, 18 Nov 93 20:23:03 CST
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 20:23:03 CST
Message-Id: <01H5H478VBAA8X2E7D@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
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From: GHU@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: sign off
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Thank you very much for the information though the net. Please sign me
off from this net.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sun Nov 21 15:12:36 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA00456); Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:12:36 CST
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:12:36 CST
Message-Id: <9311211806.AA12702@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: caomath@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: caomath@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: the guy called Mi Mi and his behavior.
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Dear fellow CSS,
   It has been several days since the guy called Mi Mi publicly replied
my personal(private) mail to him. I sent him immediately an email to 
protest his action and asked him to post my reply to the net and have
a public apology. He did apologized through another netter's mail, but
he did not until now send me a personal mail to apologize his irresposible
action and post my mail. That makes me angry.
  First of all, It is a selfish act and violate other person's right to
post a private mail to the net without consulting the person. Second, 
no personal apology further demonstrated that he is not going to respect
others and his self-rightious attitude. I can't imagine how he can ask
other people to respect him if he does not respect to others.
  In this mail I don't want to comment his motive and other aspects as of
why he start such a tuition drive and why he is not willing to respect
others. I leave to these questions to him and all of us.
  Please put your tuition discussion to your tuition net. That's where 
 it belongs to. You have informed the public for quite a few days and
we do not want to be bothered anymore.

Qiushi Cao
Kansas State University
caomath@matt.ksu.ksu.edu 

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sun Nov 21 15:35:11 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA01006); Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:35:11 CST
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:35:11 CST
Message-Id: <199311200008.AA15558@assistant.beckman.uiuc.edu>
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From: Bing-Nan Sun <bnsun@assistant.beckman.uiuc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Job Opportunities
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


		

			HELP WANTED
			===========




A marketing firm is looking for someone who is able to help them 
in obtaining a list of U.S. companies that have a branch office in 
Mainland China. A very generous "finder's fee" will be paid. 

They are also hiring Chinese nationals as sub-contractors. For 
information, please E-mail to me.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sun Nov 21 15:49:17 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02095); Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:49:17 CST
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:49:17 CST
Message-Id: <199311192103.PAA16539@steinmetz.ee.eng.auburn.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: Chen Yige <yigeche@eng.auburn.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: tuition
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi Men!

Please discuss tuition in tuition net only.  Mi Mi has established it.  We      studied in private school so no interest.  Thanks.  

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Sun Nov 21 23:58:41 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA03441); Sun, 21 Nov 93 23:58:41 CST
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 23:58:41 CST
Message-Id: <199311220552.AA25668@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: JIANHUA.YANG@emcb.cc.utah.edu
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From: Jianhua Yang  <JIANHUA.YANG@emcb.cc.utah.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject:  help
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

  Hi, anybody has information about this: F-1 and PR pending dual status 
  If travelling abroad, say to France, is a advanced parole necessary or not?
  Any information is appreciated.

                                        Yang 

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov 22 18:15:27 1993
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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 18:15:27 CST
Message-Id: <9311221305.AA05162@cel.cummins.com>
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Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

 I'm a CSPA. My application for permanent residency got approved on Sept 29th 93. My daughter in China
requested nonimmigrant visa to visit my wife and I. She was rejected due to "immigrant intent". She
was told to request an immigrant visa. She is only 8 year old. We have not seen each other 4 years.
If sh awaits immigrant status no body knows how long that process will take, which means we have to 
continue to be seperated from her indefinately. Please help me and pass this message to the State Department.
Thank you. 


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Mon Nov 22 19:04:06 1993
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From: xiaohua xing <XING@brownvm.brown.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject:      lads with interview
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


 I am a lad and will have an interview in the near future.  Can anyone who
 already had an interview tell me his(her) experience? Such as, what kind
 of questions they will ask?  etc. Thanks.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 23 09:24:08 1993
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 09:24:08 CST
Message-Id: <9311231519.AA07408@wat.ece.ncsu.edu>
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From: hzhu@eos.ncsu.edu
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Subject: priority date
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Does anybody know the priority dates of those lads who got interviewed
recentely? Answers are appreciated.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 23 10:29:10 1993
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From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 09:19:09 -0500 (EST)
>From: Xuan Chang <xxcst+@pitt.edu>
Subject: Help wanted
To: Mi Mi <hua7291@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9311182232.AA19891@med2c1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Hi, Mr. Mi Mi sir: I'm a CSPA benefiter and I've filed I-845 in 6/30.
Since redoing my finger print, I haven't gotten approve notice yet. It
bring me a trouble that my ID card (from the University which i'm working
in) will Expire at the end of this year. When I called the INS eastern
center and asked for file I-765 (we couldn't file it at local INS) and was
 told that it will take another 90day to process and he can't guarantee
My I-485 will be approved within next 30days. Then I asked  the University
OIS  and was told that they don't have any clear rules for that particular
case. So, I am wondering if you ever heard any similar case or can help me to
post it to the neters for finding out a solution?
 I will appreciate it very much for any response. My acount:xxcst@pitt.edu





From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 23 10:34:58 1993
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From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 18:23:12 CST
Reply-To: zhang@cel.cummins.com
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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>From: zhang@cel.cummins.com (Zhang)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

 I'm a CSPA. My application for permanent residency got approved on Sept 29th 93. My daughter in China
requested nonimmigrant visa to visit my wife and I. She was rejected due to "immigrant intent". She
was told to request an immigrant visa. She is only 8 year old. We have not seen each other 4 years.
If sh awaits immigrant status no body knows how long that process will take, which means we have to 
continue to be seperated from her indefinately. Please help me and pass this message to the State Department.
Thank you. 



From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 23 10:38:56 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA02653); Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:38:56 CST
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From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 18:23:12 CST
   Reply-To: zhang@cel.cummins.com
   Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
   Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
   Precedence: bulk
   From: zhang@cel.cummins.com (Zhang)
   X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
   X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

    I'm a CSPA. My application for permanent residency got approved on Sept 29th 93. My daughter in China
   requested nonimmigrant visa to visit my wife and I. She was rejected due to "immigrant intent". She
   was told to request an immigrant visa. She is only 8 year old. We have not seen each other 4 years.
   If sh awaits immigrant status no body knows how long that process will take, which means we have to 
   continue to be seperated from her indefinately. Please help me and pass this message to the State Department.
   Thank you. 


Did you read the reply form INS HQ regarding our petition letter? It is
impossible to waive the "immigrant intent" for the dependents in China.
Although you may try your luck by contacting State Department, but INS HQ
doubts the result. 

One way I may suggest you, is to write a letter to the Consular, and bring
a copy of the cable issued by the State Department back in 1990. You may get
the clue by ftping at spike, and go through the Federal Registrar at your 
school.

Other possible solutions: IFCSS HQ, Zhao Haiqing's NCCA, and White House.

If you did not file I-824, you should do it as soon as possible. She will
have your priority date.


Good Luck

Mi Mi Sr.

(Sr. =Senoir, not Sir)

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
%                 & In-State-Tuition Task Force               %       
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 23 13:14:26 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA03483); Tue, 23 Nov 93 13:14:26 CST
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 13:14:26 CST
Message-Id: <9311231910.AA14054@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


An appeal to the tuition refund seekers nation-wide!

China-nt just carried a uniformed letter to school officials, and I also
relied it to the tuition-l. This letter, is well written, very informative.

But please be cautious when you want to apply it. I know it will be on your
own discretion how to use it, but please, please keep it in mind that we are
foreigners and oriental, we are just new comers to this land of
opportunity, land of justice. We have our rights, but please do not abuse it.
Approach your goals in a polite, constructive manner always. Please respect 
your school authorities, respect the people who just granted you protection.

Mi Mi Sr.


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 24 11:47:41 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA06516); Wed, 24 Nov 93 11:47:41 CST
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 11:47:41 CST
Message-Id: <9311241743.AA18534@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Dependents in China
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Let us do this: Anyone who has dependent(s) in China and can not acquire
entry visa(s) into the U.S for the "immigration intent" or whatever reasons,
please send your detailed messages to me, Mi Mi Sr., and I will forward them
to IFCSS HQ, Dr. Haiqing Zhao's NCCA and INS and State Department as much as 
I can.

Dependents in China was a major topic in our petition letter to the US
officials. However, we did not get any postive reply on this, and we will
try once more.

To get the maximum effect, please write in details how the decision was made
by consulars, and how this family separation is all about. Please write your 
messages as neatly, convicingly as possible. Also please do not write novels, 
otherwise nobody is interested in reading them, and probably I will have to 
order a container to ship them!

As for the CSPA-lads-related problems, there is not much we can do about. 
Please keep in mind that all lads are subject to the INA, not CSPA. While we
can not do anything about CSPA, how can we work on INA itself? The only thing
we can do is to get some sympathetic treatment. 

As Dr. Zhao stated some time back in August, the golden time for lads had
passed already. Do not expect any big breakthroughs!

Let us try once more, and please join me if you have dependents in China.

Mi Mi Sr.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%   
% Mr. Mi Mi, Sr., Member of Lads-Net Committee                %
% Sign on/off at listserv@spike.rice.edu, with mailbody as:   %
%    sub lads-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff lads-l         %
%    sub tuition-l Firstname Lastname, or signoff tuition-l   %
% Post at lads-l@spike.rice.edu, or tuition-l@spike.rice.edu  %
% Anonymous ftp at spike.rice.edu, in /lads/ or /tuition/     %
% Sign our petition letter at lads-sig@spike.rice.edu.        %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 24 12:43:47 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA06679); Wed, 24 Nov 93 12:43:47 CST
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 12:43:46 CST
Message-Id: <9311241839.AA01424@hut4.pha.jhu.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: liu@hut4.pha.jhu.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: liu@hut4.pha.jhu.edu (Ji-Cheng Liu - Arthur Davidsen)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: FYI
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi,
	My wife (lad) got a letter from Baltimore INS office. In the letter
they say that my wife's application is accepted and is processing. The interview
is waived and they will make decision 60 to 90 days or the visa is available.
	In the early of theis month, the INS asked for my approval letter and
we mailed it in a certified letter. The letter we got yesterday is the second
letter since my wife handed in her application.
	Have a nice holiday.
j.c.
11-24-93

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 24 15:28:36 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 15:28:36 CST
Message-Id: <9311242124.AA08344@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: xzwang@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Xiaozhong Wang)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Tuition for LADs
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hello, there:
    There has been quite some discussion on how to get tuition refund for
CSPAers. I think a more related question to this net is whether or not those
LADs, who has applied for PR but not yet approved, should pay out of state
tuitions.  Some schools stick to the greencard arguement, which state that as
long as you don't have it, you will be charged out of state tuition.  I
wonder how solid the legal ground is for that arguement since once you apply
for PR, your intent of stay in the state is apparently more than to obtain
education. Does the USSCt decision on tuition apply to those cases?
    Anyone one has some further information?

Wang

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Wed Nov 24 16:15:21 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA07689); Wed, 24 Nov 93 16:15:21 CST
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 16:15:21 CST
Message-Id: <9311242221.AA23326@biomech.mech.utah.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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From: cheng@biomech.mech.utah.edu
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Tuition for LADs
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

/Hello, there:
/   There has been quite some discussion on how to get tuition refund for
/CSPAers. I think a more related question to this net is whether or not those
/LADs, who has applied for PR but not yet approved, should pay out of state
/tuitions.  Some schools stick to the greencard arguement, which state that as
/long as you don't have it, you will be charged out of state tuition.  I
/wonder how solid the legal ground is for that arguement since once you apply
/for PR, your intent of stay in the state is apparently more than to obtain
/education. Does the USSCt decision on tuition apply to those cases?
/   Anyone one has some further information?
/
/Wang
/
/
/

Yes, very agree with you.  Can anybody post further info.?

G. C.

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Thu Nov 25 01:59:10 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA09007); Thu, 25 Nov 93 01:59:10 CST
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 01:59:10 CST
Message-Id: <199311250755.CAA07138@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
Reply-To: liawang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: Lianqing Wang <liawang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Tuition for LADs
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi,

One of my freinds has sucessfully to have her daughter to pay in-state tuition
when she applied for her daughter a GR through a regular way -- I mean by by
CSPC -- about one year ago.  It means that it is possible to have LAD following
this reason to do the same thing.

Good luck in your argument with school.

L. Wang

From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 30 08:20:21 1993
Received: from  (localhost.rice.edu) by spike.rice.edu (AA25084); Tue, 30 Nov 93 08:20:21 CST
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 08:20:21 CST
Message-Id: <9311301356.AA21292@cel.cummins.com>
Errors-To: lads-request@spike.rice.edu
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Originator: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
Sender: lads-l@spike.rice.edu
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From: zhang@cel.cummins.com (Zhang)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
Subject: 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Dear Sirs,

The documents I sent to my daughter for nonimmigration visa application
included a copy of approval note on my permanent residency, I134 form,
an employment verification letter from my company and my bank statement
[A[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C.
After the American consul reviewed these documents he told my mother '
your granddaughter should  apply[D[D[D[D[D[D.[D[D apply an immigration visa. We can give you a
nonimmigration visa right away, but we just can't give her, because her
father is PR now.' He did not have any idea how long the process which
my daughter applies the immigration visa will take, just advised them
to go to American consulate in Guang Zhou. Here is the whole story I
heard from my mother. There is any suggestion and solution about this
problem please let me know. I will appreciate.

Thank you

Zhenhan Zhang


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 30 09:50:19 1993
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From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


Hi, Zhang, the trouble was that you gave a copy of your PR approval letter,
which, certainly excludes your daughter from getting a non-immigrat visa.

While you can not cheat (it is serious!), sometimes you can avoid your PR
status. Since you have revealed it, maybe you should try to write a letter
explaining your situation, and get a copy of the cable sent by State 
Department to the oversea posts (you can ftp from spike, lads-l document
depository), and present your case again to the consular. He does not refuse
to let your daughter in. But the the procedure requires that she wait for
immigrant visa. 

Non-immigration and immigration visas are totally different. While there
is a cap on top of the annual immigration numbers, there is no such cap
on the non-immigration visa issuance. However, U.S. INA discourages any
one to bypass the immigration procedure to take the advantage of 
non-immigration visa issuance. It is even stated explicitely in the CSPA. So,
if you present a copy of your PR evidence, you are making sure that your 
direct family dependents are denied for non-immigration visa issuance. 

Just remember that our petition letter addressed this problem, "immigration
intent" explicitely to the INS. And the answer from INS is NO NO NO.
You can also ftp the petition letter, and the INS's reply from the spike.
The CSPA implementation rules, can be retrieved from CND.ORG.

Before anyone tries to bring his/her dependents from overseas, please read
those documents carefully. You do not have many chances to take. One wrong
step is enough.

It is a wrong impression that "immigration intent" is a curse. Immigration
Intent classifies which category should you apply. It does not reject
your visa application, but redirects you to the immigration categories.
While as we applied to schools here, such "immigration intent" meant
we had to go through immigration procedure, thus disqualify us for F/J
visas. For you who have PR and want to bring your dependents here, 
"immigration intent" means you have to wait in line. 

There is no blanket solution to oversea dependents. Each one has to be
dealt case by case. And each one is guaranteed a visa, either EB-3 or 
FB-2. Probably that is why no body takes it seriously, since the problem
is the time. To solve this problem needs legislative procedures (INS HQ's
replying letter), and probably will take as much as several years to pass
the congress. By that time, many have gotten their quota already. So, to
pass something in the congress, even if it is possible, is actually 
meaningless.

Good luck!

Mi Mi Sr.



------your message follows-------your message follows----

   Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 08:26:20 CST
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   From: zhang@cel.cummins.com (Zhang)
   X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
   X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

   Dear Sirs,

   The documents I sent to my daughter for nonimmigration visa application
   included a copy of approval note on my permanent residency, I134 form,
   an employment verification letter from my company and my bank statement
   After the American consul reviewed these documents he told my mother '
   your granddaughter should  apply an immigration visa. We can give you a
   nonimmigration visa right away, but we just can't give her, because her
   father is PR now.' He did not have any idea how long the process which
   my daughter applies the immigration visa will take, just advised them
   to go to American consulate in Guang Zhou. Here is the whole story I
   heard from my mother. There is any suggestion and solution about this
   problem please let me know. I will appreciate.

   Thank you

   Zhenhan Zhang





From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 30 10:10:16 1993
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From: hua7291@med2s0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu (Mi Mi)
To: Multiple recipients of list <lads-l@spike.rice.edu>
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X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 


A paragraph in the CSPA Interim Rule, explains the the situation
of the oversea dependents and non-immigration visa issuance. Read
it carefully. It is statutorily imposed by the law.

..message deleted............
/   Some intending immigrants, however, are already in the  United
/States  in  temporary  nonimmigrant status. If these persons meet
/certain criteria, they may be allowed to adjust their immigration
/status  to  become lawful permanent residents without leaving the
/United States. This process is known  as  adjustment  of  status.
/Eligibility  requirements  for adjustment of status under section
/245 of the Act are more stringent than requirements for immigrant
/visa  issuance  abroad,  since  adjustment is an exception to the
/normal process. The more stringent adjustment  requirements  also
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   
/serve to discourage persons from obtaining temporary nonimmigrant
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
/visas  in  order  to  bypass  the   immigrant   visa   processing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
/requirements.   
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
..message deleted........

It is the BARRIER for the oversea dependents.

Mi Mi Sr.
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From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 30 10:47:21 1993
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Mi Mi sir,
                       
I was a donor of the two monuments being established in China since my 
uncle was in Chinese Air Force in Anti-Japanese War and sacrificed his 
life.  I could not give more contribution to those at least 3000 people
who died for our country and for us, but the money is still helpful.  
I would like to send the information to you since you know more people 
and you are respected by Chinese society.  May be you can forward these
information to more of your friends through proper chanels(May be other
than LAD network).  If every Chinese can give a small amount of donation 
for the monuments the total amount can be significant and it can show 
our spirit to people in China.  I do not want people to know my name or 
Email address so please keep them a secret.  If you can do any thing 
for help that will be great.  Thanks.

a netter

************************************************************************
                                                  
The following is the information of the monuments:

There was a proposal approved by the Chinese Government in 1992 for 
raising funds for the "MONUMENT TO THE AVIATION MARTYRS IN THE WAR OF 
RESISTANCE AGAINST JAPAN" and the "HUMP FLYING MONUMENT" for 
commemorating the aviation martyrs of China and those from the United 
States, the Soviet Union and other countries, who sacrificed their 
lives in the Chinese War of Resistance Against Japan.  It was proposed 
to erect the "Monument to to the Aviation Martyrs of the War of 
Resistance Against Japan" in Nanjing with their names inscribed on it, 
and to erect the "Hump Flying Monument" in Kunming in commemoration of 
the magnificant feat of flying over Himalayas and the profound 
friendship between Sino-American soldiers and civilians fighting 
shoulder to shoulder.  

Other than Chinese Air force, the outstanding groups joined Anti-Japanes
War included Sovient Volunteer Air Group, the American Volunteer Air 
Group(Known as the Flying Tigers, afterwards reorganized as the U. S. 
Army 14th Air Force). They fought bloody air battles and made important 
contributions to the victory.
     
This proposal was sponsored by China International Culture Exchange 
Foundation an Aviators Associations of Beijing, Kunming, Guandong and
Nanjing.  The Hump Flying Monument has been set up, and the Monument to
the Aviation Martyrs of the War of Resistance Against Japan is in 
course of construction.  With the help of organizations concerned in 
the United State, the Soviet Union, and Taiwan, a list of the avaition 
martyrs(about 3000 persons) has been established.

If any organization or indivadule like to give contribution for the 
construction of those monunents, who can send donation to the China
International Culture Exchange Foundation.  Please attach a note 
mentioning the purpose of the donation.  (It is suggested that the 
donation is send out as soon as possible since they planed to finish 
the construction by the end of this year, and all the donors' name will
be listed in an album.)


Name of Bank Account: China International Culture Exchange Foundation
Address: Room 3107, Beijing Hotel
         No. 33 Dong Chang An Avenue
         Beijing, (Post Code 100004)
         P. R. China
Bank:    Banking Department, Bank of China, Headoffice
Foreign Exchange Account: 71403466
RMB Account:              50100106  
Tel:     513-7766(ext. 3107)
Telex:   22426 BHCTL CN
Fax:     513-7307 to room 3107
Cable:   6531 to room 3107
Contact Persons: Hua Ren Jie, Xie Dong   

An expression of thanks will be given and commendation be made to all
sponsors.

1. After completion of the two monuments a commemorative album will be 
published and presented to all donors.  The album will commend each
donor by name irrespectively of the amount of their donation. (--May be 
most of us have ability to do this.)

2. Model monuments will be presented as souvenirs to each domestic 
donor who donates an amount exceeding 5,000 RMB, and to each overseas
donor donating an amount exceeding $1,000 USD.

3. All domestic donors who donate an amount exceeding 10,000 RMB, and 
to each overseas donors donating an amount exceeding $2,000 USD will be
commended by having their names engraved on the donors' steles by the 
two monuments.

4. All domestic donors who donate an amount exceeding 50,000 RMB and
all overseas donors donate an amount exceeding $10,000 USD will be 
invited to attend the inauguration and unveiling ceremonies for the two
monuments. Their accommodation in China will be covered by the 
sponsored organization.


From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 30 18:59:22 1993
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Subject: Non-immigrant 
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0a -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

Hi, 
My parents are going to apply for visiting visa in Beijing. They were
denied once before told because of insufficient fund. I'm an approved CSPA
and my wife is a LAD. What should I have my parents fill out my and my
wife's status which will be the best in this cituation? Should I send an
approving notice to my parents for them to show U.S. Consulate?  Any
comments are welcome and appreciated. Anybody who has any experience
please share with us.   Thanks a lot.    



From lads-l@spike.rice.edu  Tue Nov 30 21:52:50 1993
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From: m-mp0050@happy.cs.nyu.edu (Ming Pan)
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X-Comment:  Late-Arrival-DependentS-List 

I have two questions regarding the application for permanent residency.
Any suggestions and comments would be greatly appreciated.

1) As a LAD, I filed my application with New York INS in August and got
   the EAD card (work permission) in September. But I haven't received
   the receipt notice by now. I was told by an immigration officer that
   I should be able to receive the receipt notice in three months when
   I filed the application. But now more than 3 months has passed. It
   seems that the LADs in New York are unlucky compared with those in
   other areas. We encountered more hostility when we filed the applica-
   tion and now we have to wait more time for our receipt notices, inter-
   views (who knows when they will be.) ... Are there any fellow LADs
   in New York who share the same problems?

2) I came here with an F-2 visa. Now I'm a graduate student of NYU. I
   did get my own I-20 form from my university, but I'm not sure whether
   I should use it to change my visa status to F-1. Now that my appli-
   cation for permanent residency is pending in INS, I guess I needn't
   and shouldn't apply for the F-1 visa because it's for those who don't
   want to abandon his former permanent residence. Is it right?

Thanks again for any suggestions and comments.

 


