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Oppiliappan List Archive: Message 00247 Aug 2005

 
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Dear Bhakthas,
Followers of Vishnu are called as Vishnavas. And a vishnava could be a brahmin, Kshtarya, or Vysya. To my knowledge nowhere in Ramayana, Mahabharatha, or in Vishnu Purana a single mention of Srivishnava is mentioned. These being the great epics and running in volumes has no mention of Srivishnava brahmin but one will come across mention of mearly vishnava brahmin. Lord Rama and Lord Krishna who were Vishnavas never had Srivishnava Namam on their fore-head. If Srivishnavism existed in the days of Rama then atleast single mention of it would have been made in the Ramayana. We all know Rama had come across so many different catagories of people existing at that time in his journey from north to extreme south. It is very clear that Srivishnavism was not there during Rama and Krishna Days. Srivishnavism must have been started some time later. In Hindu culture most of the great people are very modest that they do not claim there authorship or finding and Srivishnavism is one of them.
 
Adiyen Krishna Ramanuja dasan

Sampath Kumar Padmanaban <janasampath@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha
Srimath Varavara Munaye Namaha

In one of the e-mail chains related to the origin of
Hebbar Iyengars, one of our members Sri.Krishna has
mentioned that Swamy Ramanuja was the founder of
SriVaishnavism. Sri.Krishna has also mentioned that
Swamy Ramanuja made advaita into vishitadvaita.

> Before Ramanuja there was only Vishnavism, and the
> philosophy existed was only Advita. Sri Ramanuja
> made advita into Vishista-advita also called as
> qualified advita or qualified monoism.He made
> Vishnavism into Srivishnavisam by giving a place to
> SRI also known as Godess Lakshmi. Acharya Ramanuja
> is the founder of Srivishnavism Sect.

I beg to defer with Sri.Krishna.

Smt.Sumitra Varadarajan replied to this aspect and
adiyen fully agree with her. Vishitadvaitam is
undoubtedly a parama vaidhika matham and an eternal
matham. The simple logic to understand this is
follows:
It is established beyond doubt that Vishitadvaitam is
the only religion that correctly and logically
explains the Vedas and Upanishads. Since, Vedas are
eternal Vishitadvaitam is also eternal. Even before
Swami Ramanuja, great Vishitadvaita acharyas like
Yamunaachar, Naathamunikal and all the great Azhwars
existed and propagated the doctrine of Vishitadvaitam.
Infact, Swami Ramanuja's Gita Bhashyam is based on
Swami Yamunacharyaar's Gitaarta Sanghraha.

Also, prior to emperumanaar's period all three
doctrines (Advaitam, Dvaita, Vishitadvatam)
co-existed. Emberumaanaar made the world realize in a
logical and scientific manner the supremacy of
Vishitadvaitam.

Swami Emberumanaar's greatness is in his nirhetuka
krupai to ensure that every jeevatma reaches Him and
does kainkaryam to the divya dhampathigal.

Kindly accept adiyen's appologies for any mistakes and
errors.

Adiyen

Ramanuja Dasan
Sampath Kumar...




--- Sumithra Varadarajan <sumivaradan@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Dear Sri Krishna,
>
> VishistAdvaita sampradayam is a parama vaidhika
> matham.  Sri Ramanuja only propagated the already
> existing philosophy.  EmperumAnAr was not a founder
> of Srivaishnavism as you have mentioned.  Swamy
> before writing Sribhasyam took the reference from
> Bodhayana vriththi grandham that was preserved in
> the sarada peedam.  This bhodhayana vriththi was
> full and full based on VishistAdvaita principles.
> That shows that even before Sri Ramanuja
> VishistAdvaita philosophy was very well there.
> Swamy only propagated it to the world.
>
> Adiyen ramanuja dAsee
> Sumithra Varadarajan
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: honganour krishna
>   To: Oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
> Srivaishnavam_update ; Thengalaiiyengar ; VEDIC_TALK
> ; Velukkudi Krishnan ; RAMANUJA GROUPS ; ramanuja
> mission ; jetusa JEEYAR
>   Cc: HONGANUR S SESHADRI ; MYSORE K SRINIVASAN ;
> SRILATHA SRINIVASAN ; SriRangaSri ; HONGANOOR S
> VENKATESH ; SRINIDHI VENKATESH ; shylaja
> krishnamurthy ; MR. & MRS. BALAJI ; MR. & MRS. Dr.
> RAMAPRASAD ; honganour parthasarathy ; SADAGOPAN
>   Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:23 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Oppiliappan] Fw: [SriRangaSri] RE:
> Origin of Hebbar iyengars
>
>
>   Swamin:
>   Before Ramanuja there was only Vishnavism, and the
> philosophy existed was only Advita. Sri Ramanuja
> made advita into Vishista-advita also called as
> qualified advita or qualified monoism.He made
> Vishnavism into Srivishnavisam by giving a place to
> SRI also known as Godess Lakshmi. Acharya Ramanuja
> is the founder of Srivishnavism Sect. If you study
> the Life of Sri Ramanuja, you will find that his
> Guru taught Ramanuja and his class-mates advita
> philosophy.Later came Madhwa Charya and his
> philosophy was Dwaitha also called as Dualism.
> Before Ramanuja the Red Line signifying Lakshmi or
> Sri in the center of the Namam did not exist, it was
> Sri Ramanuja who inserted the Red. It is very clear
> that Vishsta-advita philosophy did not exist before
> Sri Ramanuja. I welcome more arguments in this
> subject from learned Scholars.
>    Adijen Krishna Sri Ramanuja Dasan
>   sgopan <sgopan@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>     Sri:
>
>     Dear BhakthAs :
>
>     It is my pleasure to share with you Sriman AMR
> Kannan Swamy's
>     posting  in the Sri Ranga Sri list .
>
>     V.Sadagopan
>
>
>     > Dear Sri Sampige Srinivasa Swamin,
>     >
>     > Thank you sharing us about the origin of the
> word Hebbar. That was very
>     > informative.
>     >
>     > You have also mentioned that Sri
> Ramanujacharya was not a SriVaishnava
>     > when he was born and was born to an advaitin.
> Could you please refer
>     > some authentic manuscripts regarding this
> claim? I don't think Sri
>     > Ramanuja was born to an Advaitin.
>     >
>     > We first need to understand the social
> structure of Sri Ramanuja's days.
>     > In those days everyone who followed the Vedic
> (vaidika) religion wore
>     > only an urdhava pundram and worshipped Sriman
> Narayana as the supreme
>     > reality. Some of these vedic (vaidika) people
> might have followed
>     > advaita philosophy as well. But the difference
> between now and then was
>     > whether you are a advathi or a vishistadvaithi
> you always wore a urdhva
>     > pundram and worshipped Sriman Narayana as the
> supreme reality unlike the
>     > present scenario. Therefore whatever the
> difference between the (present
>     > day) smarthas and (present day) vaishnavas did
> not exists in those days.
>     > In fact everyone followed smartha dharmam (the
> rituals prescribed in
>     > smrithis) but lived a vaishnavite life.
> Therefore even if we say that
>     > Sri Ramanuja was born in a smartha family, we
> need to clearly understand
>     > that the present smartha-vaishnava grouping
> did not exist in those days.
>     > For example those smarthas did not wear
> thri-pundram. They might have
>     > used thiruman, srichurnam or sandal or gopi or
> something else to wear an
>     > urdhva pundram. Another example is those
> smarthas did not accept other
>     > deities as supreme reality.
>     >
>     > Adiyen still remember the words of Sri
> Velukkudi Varadhacharyar Swami
>     > during one of his upanyasams in
> Tiruvallikkeni. Swami said, "Vaidikas
>     > (those who follow vedic religion) may dispute
> among themselves whether
>     > Advaita is the vedic philosophy, or
> Vishistadvaita is the vedic
>     > philosophy or Dvaita is the vedic philosophy.
> But these vaidikas will
>     > never dispute whether Sriman Narayana is the
> supreme reality or some
>     > other deity is the ultimate truth. Because
> Sriman Narayana's supremacy
>     > is what vedic philosophy and that is what all
> vaidikas including
>     > Advaitis, Vishishtadvaitis and Dvaitis
> believe." But of course the
>     > present day situation is different. We should
> not gauge those days with
>     > present day's standards.
>     >
>     > Now the question comes, how do we know for
> sure? We need to read the
>     > great works done by those acharyas. For
> example, Sri Adhi
>     > Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashayam (in
> particular 2nd chapter
>     > (Avirodhathyayam, Dharga Padham) will be a
> good place to start about Sri
>     > Shankaracharya's position on various religions
> practiced in his days.
>     > Similarly, Sri Shankaracharya's Sri Gita
> Bhashayam and Sri Vishnu
>     > Sahasranama Bhashayam would be equally good to
> read in order to
>     > understand his philosophy.
>     >
>     > But if we want to know the essence of these
> writings, there are two
>     > excellent books written by Puththur Sri
> Sudharshanam Sri
>     > Krishnamachariyar Swami entitled: 1. Sanga
> Kala Tamizhar Samayam 2.
>     > Shankararum Vainavamum. These two books were
> written with authenticity.
>     > These books are in Tamil. So, someone needs to
> translate them for
>     > everyone to read. They are truly eye-openers
> for many misconceived
>     > thoughts.
>     >
>     > Adiyen Ramanujadasan Kannan
>     >
>     >
>     >>===== Original Message From "Sampige
> Srinivasa" <sampiges@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>     > =====
>     >>Dear Sri. Balaji,
>     >>
>     >>Yes Hebbar Iyengars were not originally
> Srivaishnavas as you said and
>     > also
>     >>it is true that even Sri. Ramanujacharya was
> not a Srivaishnava when he
>     > was
>     >>born. He was born to an advaitin! So when
> Ramanuja preached
>     > Vishistadvaita,
>     >>Srivaishnavism became popular in Tamilnadu and
> as you said, when
>     >>Sri.Ramanjua fled from TN and settled in
> Karnataka for 12 long years it
>     >>spread to Southern Parts of Karnataka.
>     >>
>     >>The details of Hebbar Srivaishnava origin was
> published long back in
>     > the
>     >>Hebbar Srivaishnava magazine called "Hebbar
> Kshema" and I remember
>     > reading
>     >>this. Also a historical novel written by Smt.
> Neeladevi about the life
>     > of
>     >>Ramanjuja in Karnataka named "Dhanya" gives
> similar answers to the
>     > orgin of
>     >>Hebbar Srivaishnavas
>     >>
>     >>During the time when ramanjuja was in
> Tondanur(Tonnur)
=== message truncated ===



           
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