dhEvathAdhikaraNam-1-3-7 suthra-25-thadhuparyapibAdharAyaNah sambhavATH-1-3-25 BadarAyaNa says that meditation is possible for beings higher than humans like dhevas because of the possibility. Since it is said in the previous suthra that only human beings are qualified to meditate the question arises whether those higher than humans are also qualified or not. the poorvapakshin says that they are not because they do not have prAkrtha sarira and hence cannot observe the spritual disciplines, sADHana sapthaka like viveka and vimoka outlined in the jinjnAsAdhikaraNa. Neither the vedanta texts nor the injunctions in the puravamimamsa texts refer to the embodiment of devas. This is refuted by the suthra. meditation is possible for the higher beings also because they also have desires,wishes, hardships and sufferings and know that the highest bliss can only be found in Brahman, who is untouched by evil and possessed of infinite auspicious qualities. [This can be seen in the purAnic lore where we find Indra and others facing troubles and even Brahma is said to have meditated on Narayana before starting the creation, in BhAgavatha purANa..] The objection forwarded that they do not possess a body is not correct as prajApathi and Indhra and others are described as having body in the upanishads in the chapters on creation and meditation.All the scritures describe four kinds of creation, deva,human,animal and plants. They occupy the places till brahmaloka according to their karma. In the section on Prajapathi giving instruction to Indra, the latter was said to have approached him along with Virochana with samith on hand and staying with him as his disciple for thirtytwo years, all of which implies the embodiment of Indra and the like. Even in the karmakanda there are manthras and arthvAdhAs (laudatory passages) which speak of the devas having bodies as could be seen in 'vajrahasthah purandharah,' Indra with vajrAyuDHa in his hand, etc. These passages cannot be ignored as laudatory because the qualities that exist alone will be praised not those which are nonexistent. Since ithihasas, puranas and dharmasasthras also speak of devas as having embodiment they are also qualified for meditation. suthra-26-virODHah karmaNI ithi cheth, na,anEka prathipatthErdharsanAth-1-3-26 If it is said that if devas have bodies it makes them impossible to be present at various yajnas to accept havirbhAga simultaneously the suthra refutes it saying that they are capable of assuming several bodies through their superhuman powers.Even yogis were found to have such powers as in the case of soubari who was supposed to take several bodies to please his many wives. suthra-27-sabdha ithi cheth, na,athah prabhavAth prathyakshAnumAnAbhyAm-1-3-27 If it is said that the embodiment involves contradiction with respect to words,it is not so because beings originate from them(words) as seen from perception and inference. This means, all the words in the veda and their meanings are eternel as accepted by all thinkers. Hence the forms and entities denoted by the vedic words like indra ,varuna etc are also eternal and if the devas are said to have embodiment theywill not be eternal as the bodies are subjected to destruction and their names denoted in the veda will lose their meaning being just an appellation like Devadatta. This view is refuted by the suthra.The names like indra found in the veda are not related to a particular entity but a class.That is why the vedic words are said to be eternal. The creator, Brahma utters a word and the form comes into being. Hence the entities are created ever new and their having a corporeal body is not detrimental to the eternity of the word in the veda denoting them.There is valid proof for this through perception, inference, that is, through sruthi and smrthi. Sruthi says 'vEdhEna rupE vyAkarothsathAsathee prajApathih. (Taitt.Aran.2-6) PrajApathi created the names and forms through veda ,being and nonbeing.And 'sa bhoorithi vyAharath bhoomim asrjatha; sa bhuva ithi vyAharath so anthariksham asrjatha.' He uttered the word 'bhoo' and created the earth and uttered the word 'bhuva' and created the sky. From smrithi also we know that everything was created by Brahma through words of veda. 'anAdhi niDHanO hyEshA vAg uthsrshtA svayambhuvA,Adhou vEdhamayee dhivyA yathah sarvAh prasoothayah' In the beginning the creator gave out divine speech beinningless and endless in the form of veda from which everything origuinated.(MB.shanthi.231)Therefore the devas having bodies does not in any way makes the vedic words meaningless. suthra-28-atha Eva cha nithyathvam-1-3-28 The eternity of the vedas result from this reason only. Brahma remebers the words after each deluge and creates the devas and rshis as before and hence the eternity of the vedic words. The rshis are called manthradrshtas , seers of manthra and not composers for the same reason. But at the time of prAkrtha pralaya, complete dissolution, Brahma himself ceases to exist and how can the creation take place based on the remembrance of the vedas as in naimitthikapralya, the intermediate dissolution, is the question raised and the next sutha answers that. suthra29samAnanAmarupathvAthcha Avrtthou api avirODHO dharsanATHsmrthEScha-1-3-29 As said in the Chandhogya text 'thadhaaikshatha bahusyAm prajAyEya,' etc the Lord creates everything as before and entering into all beings gives them name and form and hence the creative process happens as before starting from that of Brahma himself.this is how the veda cme to be called apourushEyam , uncreated by any individual.The supreme person also follows the same order of the vedas as before but it happens spontaneously for Him and not through memory. There is scriptural evidence for this as we find in svetAsvathara upanishad 'yO brahmANam vidhaDHAthi poorvam yO vai vEdhAmscha prahiNOthi thasmai,' he who first created Brahma and gave the vedas to him. In the puraNas like nArasimha and VarAha also we find passages to substantiate this. 'thathra supthasya dhEVasya nAbhou padhmamajAyAtha;thasmin padhmE mahAbhAga vEdhavEdhAnga pAragah; brahmOthpannah,sa thEnOkthah prajAh srja mahAmathE.' (Nara.10) Also in varaha purANawe find the text 'Evambhoothasya me dhevi nAbhipadhmE chathurmukhah;uthpannah;sa mayAchOkthah prajAAh srja mahAmathE .' Both passages describe how Brahma came out from the naval of Narayana and was instructed on creation. So the devas also are qualified for brahmavidhya. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Oppiliappan-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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