Sri:
Dear All :
You will enjoy this input
from Sriman M.G.Vasudevan.
Thank you Srioman Vasudevan /
V.Sadagopan
----- Original Message -----
From: M.G.Vasudevan
To: yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: sria2000@xxxxxxxxx ; krupa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:39 PM
Subject: - Re: Doubt
respected swamin
here is two notes as appearing in website www.valmikiramayan.net
these two explain the vEdhavathee story
of course the exact puraaNam in which it is quoted is not clear. but it is more
likely to be padma puraanam for it deals with raama and seethaa.
Vaalmeeki declares Ramayana is seethaayaa: charitam mahath... 'Seetha's
impeccable conduct...' by giving her an unusual birth from the furrow of the
plough, and in the end she exits from this world into the same soil, where the
earth is called vasundharaa, which cleaves under Seethaa's feet, and takes
Seethaa into her womb again. As such, the reason for Seethaa to be there in
that furrow as baby is said to be a vow of Goddess Lakshmi, in her earlier
incarnation as vEdhavathee.
The mythologies [puraaNams - which one? not sure] go on to say that vEdhavathee
is the brainchild of a sage called kusadhwaja, and he decides to give
vEdhavathee in marriage none less than vishNu. But in his lifetime, it is an
unfulfilled desire. Then vEdhavathee starts a rigorous penance to achieve her
father's wish. When she is at her culmination point of her penance, raavaNan,
passing that way in sky sees this beautiful lady, nears, and disturbs her
penance. VEdhavathee coming out of her meditation, curses raavaNan saying that
she will reincarnate herself, to destroy raavaNan and his entire dynasty. Then
she causes a yogic fire and immolates herself in it. And vEdhavathee is reborn
as seethaa of RaamaayaNam, in an unusual way.
Here aanandha raamaayaNam has an interesting parable. Once there was a king
named padhmaaksha who wanted Lakshmi as his daughter. On practicing thavam or
thapas vishNu appears and gives a fruit called maathulunga phalam, and girl
emerges out of that fruit, and she is named as Padhmaa. But greedy to possess
her, all the wooing kings war with padhmaaksha and his entire family is ruined
and padhmaa jumps into fire and self immolates herself. Later when vishNu's
maaya comes out of an altar of fire, sits in her meditation, raavaNan sees her
and wants to abduct her.
Of course, she is otherwise said to be vEdhavathee in other texts. But again,
she enters the fire altar and reduces herself to ashes. Even then, raavaNan
searches in those ashes for her. In there, he gets five diamonds of high
quality. He comes to Lanka and paces those diamonds in a casket and jovially
presents them to his wife mandhOdhari. When mandhOdhari could not lift the
casket raavaNan lifts it and opens its lid, as he lifted Mt. Kailas. When the
casket is opened, mandhOdhari finds a baby girl in it and recognises her to be
Goddess Lakshmi. Then they consult their teachers about that baby's arrival.
Those teaches wishing good for raavaNan, advise to get rid off this girl
immediately, for he is Goddess Lakshmi, arrived here only to end raavaNan and
his dynasty. Then mandhOdhari orders his servants to carry away this baby in a
casket by an aircraft and get rid off it.
But raavaNan rushes after the girl with a sword, to put that girl to sword.
Empress mandhOdhari pacifies raavaNan and says "Why purchase a later time death
now itself at the hand of this baby... let that the casket be buried..."
raavaNan agrees. MandhOdhari also curses this girl saying, "this faithless
girl, [for wealth is unfaithful,] will thrive only in a house, where the
householder has his senses conquered, and who being an emperor lives like a
perfect hermit, and who though wealthy and supreme by himself, will care
nothing for the riches but view whole of the world and people as his own soul,
with an impartial attitude..."
Thus this casket is buried in the fields of King Janaka's empire by demons,
clandestinely. MandhOdhari thought that such a person is an impossibility to
take birth in this mortal world, to foster this buried girl, and thus presumed
her curse to be twisty. But there is King Janaka with all the above attributes.
A king without ego, wealthy but living simple, childless, yet does not crave
for one, like King Dasaratha. Hence, he is called raajarshi a saintly king.
Seethaa's birth is to be limitedly understood, as said by Janaka in this
chapter. Otherwise, the nuances about the birth of Seethaa are to be viewed
through the viewfinders of mythologies, legends, and above all, through the
viewfinders of tradition... but not in the vast of epical poetry, as Vaalmeeki
himself has undocumented it.
An enigma called - Seethaa [another version]
Is Seethaa really the Goddess Lakshmi? This question is often raised and
answered by commentators. RaavaNan kidnapped umpteen numbers of beautiful women
and goddess, but why his dialogues with Seethaa are given many shades of
meanings by all most all commentators. Is this for proving RaavaNan as devotee
or else to prove that Seethaa is not a human but Goddess Lakshmi - is the
collateral objection. Apparently, Seethaa is behaving like a normal woman but
latently her speeches, verbiage, or the words put by Vaalmeeki on her tongue,
indicate that she is an all-powerful enigma... without saying who she is.
If she is an incarnation of Goddess Lakshmi how then can RaavaNan lift her up
and carry this far - is the next dilemma, because RaavaNan's strength becomes
useless to lift up Lakshmana who swooned on the battlefield when RaavaNan used
sakthi missile. In Yuddha Kaanda Ch. 59 verse 111 it is said:
himavaan mandharO mErO: thrai lOkyam vaa saha amarai: |
sakyam bhujaabhyaam uddharthum na sakyO bharatha anuja: ||
'RaavaNan may have lifted Mt. Himavaan, Mt. Mandhara, Mt. Meru or all the three
worlds along with all gods, but he could not lift up Bharatha's brother
LakshmaNa with both of his shoulders...'
Raavanan wanted to distance fiercer LakshmaNa from Raama so that Raama's
intensity of warring lessens. Then an episode of this lifting occurs and
Hanumaan on seeing this comes to RaavaNan and hits RaavaNan with fist, by which
RaavaNan falls distantly with blood effusing from eyes, ears, and mouth. Then
Hanumaan easily lifts up LakshmaNa and takes him to Raama. A man in swoon will
not weigh differently to two different lifters. How then RaavaNan could not
lift LakshmaNa, which is not at all a great feat to Hanumaan? For this the very
next verse 112 gives a reply saying that:
'even if LakshmaNa is hit by Sakthi missile of Brahma, he is conscious of
himself as an unimaginable entity of God VishNu, so RaavaNa could not lift
LakshmaNa. Whereas Hanumaan happened to be a true devotee of God Almighty, he
could easily lift LakshmaNa...'
Then the original topic of Raavana's lifting and carrying off Seethaa comes to
fore. She is also another unimaginable entity of Supreme Person. How then can
RaavaNan lift her? For this it is said that Seethaa allowed herself to be
carried off by RaavaNan as she pledged in the incarnation of VEdhavathee.
The legend goes on to say that VEdhavathee is the brainchild of a sage called
Kusadhwaja, and he decides to give VEdhavathee only to VishNu in marriage. But
it is an unfulfilled desire in his lifetime. Then VEdhavathee starts a rigorous
penance to achieve her father's wish. When she is at the culmination point of
her penance, RaavaNan passing that way in skyway sees this beautiful lady,
nears, and disturbs her penance. VEdhavathee coming out of her meditation
curses RaavaNan saying that she will reincarnate herself to destroy RaavaNan
and his entire dynasty. Then she causes a yogic fire and immolates herself in
it. RaavaNan took this as prattle by a woman-hermit, dismisses that curse, and
conveniently forgets it.
Later, RaavaNan being an ardent devotee of Siva, on one day when he enters a
lake to get lotuses for his daily worship of Siva, and finds among lotuses a
baby in a lotus. He brings that lotus and the baby to his palace, in all his
fondness for children. But his empress MandhOdhari doubts the arrival of this
baby in lotus and recognises that baby as Goddess Lakshmi. They consult their
teachers about that baby's arrival. Those teachers, priests and pundits advise
to get rid of this baby immediately, for she is Vedhavathee, arrived here only
to end RaavaNan and his dynasty. Then MandhOdhari orders the servants to carry
away this baby in a casket, and bury it.
Empress MandhOdari further curses that girl saying: 'this faithless girl [for
Wealth has no faithfulness, and this girl is recognised as Goddess Lakshmi -
presiding deity of Wealth,] will thrive only in a house, where the householder
has his senses conquered, and who being an emperor lives like a perfect hermit,
and who though wealthy and supreme by himself, will care nothing for the riches
but view whole of the world and people as his own soul, with an impartial
attitude...' Mandodari thought that such a person is an impossibility to take
birth in this mortal world, and thus presumed this curse to be twisty.
But there is King Janaka who has all these attributes. A king without ego,
wealthy one living simple, childless but yet does not crave for children, like
King Dasharatha. Hence, he is called raajarshi a saintly king. While King
Janaka was about to perform a Vedic ritual, he had to till some piece of land
as a ceremonial act to commence that ritual. Then this casket with the baby is
touched to the blade at the end of plough-beam and that plough halted. The
attendants dug up that area only to find this casket with baby. The childless
Janaka takes the baby into his arms and names her as 'Seethaa...' where Seethaa
in Sanskrit means 'furrow.' This is as per aananda raamaayaNa Thus, Goddess
Lakshmi became VEdhavathee and VEdhavathee became Seethaa of RaamaayaNam, as
such Vaalmeeki calls his Ramayana seethaayaa: charitham mahath...
Then another counter objection - it is all correct to say that all puraaNaa-s
say that these characters in Ramayana as gods and goddesses, as VishNu Puraana
says
raaghavathve havath siitaa rukmiNii kR^iSNa jananee.
But does Vaalmeeki say it in his epic? For this it is answered, though it is
not said explicitly there are many instances indicating towards this divinity
of Seethaa. Seethaa asks Fire-god to become cool for Hanumaan, when his tail is
burnt saying seethO bhava hanumatha and likewise she could have said hathO
bhava raavaNa 'dead you are RaavaNa...' But she does not say so for, because
Raama has to undertake that process of elimination of vice called RaavaNan. As
Seethaa said in Sundhara Kaanda Ch. 22, verse 20:
a sandesaat tu raamasya tapasa: ca anupaalanaat |
na tvaam kurmi dasagreeva bhasma bhasmeerha tejasaa ||
'As I have no indication from Raama to burn you down, nor do I wish to waste my
ascetic power, therefore I do not burn you to ashes, though you are worthy to
become a mound of ash...'
In the very next verse 21 she directly says to RaavaNan:
na apahartum aham sakyaa tvayaa raamasya dheemata: |
vidhi: tava vadha arthaaya vihito na atra samsaya: ||
'I am un-seizable for [any] as I am the wife of bold Raama, but it happened so,
for you are fated to doom [you could seize me...] undoubtedly...'
Again in Yuddha KaaNdam Brahma in eulogising Raama for eliminating RaavaNan
says in Ch. 117, verse 28: seethaa lakshmee: bhavaan vishNu:... 'Seethaa is
Lakshmi and you are Vishnu...' Like this, there are many bits and pieces of
information to establish her as an incarnate of VEdhavathee alias Goddess
Lakshmi. Govindaraja.
Then why she and Raama behaved like humans in their wailing, moaning, and
bawling is again a secondary query. This is according to loka reethi, loukika
vidhaana 'humanly nature, behaviour in human world...' Though this humanly
behaviour is not innate trait as Raama says aatmaanam aham maanusham manye 'I
for myself confess to be human...' Hence this humanly wailing and bawling are
due to an adopted human behaviour, where incarnation itself is an adaptation.
Their humanly behaviour is to show themselves as one with the humans, asking
humans to undergo these series of sufferings to eliminate unrighteousness,
either in the society or within themselves. Besides, their mission is to make
believe Raavana that they are just humans, as Raavana is killable by humans and
monkeys, but not to hoodwink readers, the adherents or all of us put together.
Maheshvara Tiirtha.
This incarceration of Seethaa in Asoka gardens is viewed as the incarceration
of the innate soul in birthed being's body. The release from that body, namely
mOksha is achievable only when that being wants a perfect release by
transcending the threefold nature consisting of sathva, rajas, thamO guNaa:
'purity, activity and stolidity...' and with an unswerving devotion to the
Supreme as said in Gita, 14-26:
maam ca yo avyabhicaareNa bhakti yogena sevate |
sa guNaan samateeshtya etaan brahmObhaaya kalpate ||
'And such- / With single, fervent faith adoring Me, / Passing beyond the
Qualities, conforms / To Brahma, and attains Me!' - Sir Edwin Arnold.
God Almighty is said to be masculine single, the rest of the universe is taken
as feminine, as said in Vishnu Puraana:
sa eva vaasudevo ayam saaksht purusha ucyate |
stree praayam etat sarvam jagat brahma purassaram ||
Then the way the innate soul, called Seethaa, is incarcerated is, when she had
no help of the Supreme or the Adherent of the Supreme, [Raama and LakshmaNa.]
Then the Decahedral demon [the demon called Ten Motor Senses,] came and
captured the Soul, called Seethaa and incarcerated that soul in Lanka. The
syllable 'lam' in the word Lanka is lam - beejaakshara which stands for earth,
and because body is earthly, lascivious and carnal, the soul enters that body
by its bondage. If that soul again tries for a final release, that soul shall
seek the Ultimate as said in the verse of Geethaa, quoted above.
There is no instance to quote that Raama or Seethaa have performed some
miracles, special effects or any other optical works... perhaps due to lack of
any FX studio or something like that, or due to their humanly behaviour. This
wizardry is shown by demons and monkeys but not by mannish Raama or womanish
Seethaa. Yet Seethaa is held more enigmatic than Raama. If she is not an enigma
how she footslogged miles and miles in forests without hiring a taxi, and how
she came out of blazing fire when she performed self-immolation after Great
War? These are but two questions among many. Because these questions are
never-ending and more enigmatic, because we think that we have deciphered what
Raama is, it is better retain Seethaa as an undecipherable enigma.
trust this clarifies sri srirams point
dhasan
vasudevan m.g
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: M.G.Vasudevan
Sent: Fri 7/28/2006 9:48 PM
To: Dr. Sadagopan
Cc: sria2000@xxxxxxxxx; krupa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Newsender-Check validity] - Re: Doubt - Message is from an
unknown sender
respected swamin,
thanks for the confidence posed on me.
today just now 9.48pm IST returned from a long official trip to delhi and
cochin and saw mails.
did not see mail for more than 5 days.
hence this delay.
will send points and comment on this on sunday.
regards
MGV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dr. Sadagopan [mailto:yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wed 7/26/2006 1:11 AM
To: Sriram Varadharajan
Cc: M.G.Vasudevan; Mukund
Subject: [Newsender-Check validity] - Re: Doubt - Message is from an unknown
sender
Dear Sri Varadarajan:
There are many versions of RaamAyaNam .
For us Vaalmiki RaamAyaNam is the basic text .
There is no reference to Vedavathi .
The best person to comment on Srimath RaamAyaNam matters is
Sriamn M.G.VaasudEvan of Chennai .
By copy of thsi note , I am requesting him to comment .
V.Sadagopan
----- Original Message -----
From: Sriram Varadharajan
To: yennappan@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:45 AM
Subject: Doubt
Adiyen,
I have a small doubt..
In Ramayana, during Sri Ramas Vanavasam, Sita was carried by Ravana to
Lanka. But in the Thirumala website, its said that Ravana was tricked & took
Vedavathi instead of Sita.
Web page : http://www.tirumala.org/opage34.html
"When Ravana was about to carry away Sita from Panchavati, in the absence of
Rama and Lakshmana, Agni appeared and offered Vedavati to Ravana as the real
Sita who was kept with him by Rama to evade Ravana. Ravana was tricked into
thinking that Vedavati was the real Sita."
My Question is
1) Is the above one true ?
2) If its true, does Rama not know the truth ?
However few slides down the above link its said that,
http://www.tirumala.org/opage36.html
"After the destruction of Ravana, Vedavati entered the fire when rejected by
Rama. Then, Agni, offered the real Sita to Rama. Rama then questioned her as to
who the other lady by her side was. "
& at
http://www.tirumala.org/opage37.html
" Sita informed Rama that the lady was Vedavati who endured Ravana's torture
for ten months in Lanka for her sake. Sita requested Rama to accept Vedavati
also as his spouse. But Rama declined her request saying that he believed in
having only one wife during his life time. However, He promised to wed her in
her next birth as Padmavati, born as the daughter of Akasa Raja, when Rama
himself would take the form of Srinivasa. "
Question :
1) Sita knows that Ravana would carry her & was helped by Agni & Ravana took
Vedavathi instead. Knowing about character of Sita, she will not allow others
to suffer as she is kind hearted. So how did she allow Vedavathi to suffer in
her behalf.
2) If Sita was safe, could it not be easier for her to approach Rama & tell
him the truth that Vedavathi has been kidnapped by Ravana ?
Please forgive my ignorance & if possible can you please clarify the above
points.
Thanks & Regards
Sriram
Sriram. V
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