Dear Mrs Jayashree Saranathan, Thanks a lot.That was what I had wanted dAsan vanamamalai padmanabhan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jayasree Saranathan" <jayasree.saranathan@xxxxxxxxx> To: "sadagopaniyengar" <sadagopaniyengar@xxxxxxxx>; <oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:15 PM Subject: [Oppiliappan] Re: The Six Questions > SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. > > > There are 3 questions involved in this. > > (1) whether this is about 6 questions or not. > > (2) Whether the questions were openly raised or not / or the answers > were provided by Deva-p-perumaL by mind-reading Ilaiaazhwar. > > (3)Under what category of 5 questions, these questions come under. > > Attempting to reply them.. > > (1) Since by tradition, the 'Aaru vaarthai' exits, this is enough > proof that there were 6 questions or issues for which Illaiaazhwar > wanted PerumAL to answer. > > (2) Going by the accounts on this incident, (those who have access to > original manuscripts, please reproduce them to know how the events > unfolded. Here I am going by the account given by Sri Desoor Nallaan > Chakravarthy Srinivasa Varadhan, former adhyaapaka of Sri > Parthasarathy sannidhi, Triplicane, in his book " Deva-p-perumALum, > IrAmAnusa DharshaNamum" 1973 edition, Ratnam press) Illaiyaazhwar > expressed his 'mana-klesham' to Thirukkachchi NambigaL and requested > him to get replies from dEva-p-perumAl. Here a question may arise why > Ramanuja himself didn't ask PerumAL. The reply to this question > contains all answers on this issue. > > Ramanuja was then passing through a difficult period in his sojourn. > It was on the suggestion of his mother, he approached Thirikkacchi > NambigaL since he was close to Deva-p-perumAL ('andharangar to > Deva-p-perumAL'). > > He has just then received the biggest blow of not being able to > surrender unto SrI AlavandhAr, in him having left for Thiru nAdu. It > was Thirukkachchi NambigaL who consoled him that PeraruLALan would > certainly show him the way and assured that he need not entertain any > fear ("anja vEndaa"). It is for the kind of relationship that NambigaL > enjoyed with Deva-p-perumAL and he enjoyed with Illaiaazhwar, that > things took this shape. Ramanuja placed his request to NambigaL and > NambigaL conveyed the request to PerumAL. When we, the simple mortals > have been blessed by Him by receiving guidance when needed, without > even asking for them, there is no need to doubt whether the questions > were put forth by mouth or not. If we look at the supreme connection > between Uadayavar and Deva-p-perumAL, we know that this was the time > chosen by Him to get-start the mission of Ramanuja. Because after > receiving these Aaru vaarthai only, Bhagavad Ramanuja's Avatara > mission started, by receiving pancha samakaaram at Madhuranthakam. So > we conclude that PerumAL gave the Aru vaarthai, to satisfy the 6 > questions that were in Ramanuja's mind. > > This is further supported by NambigaL's enquiry when he conveyed the > replies to Ramanuja, whether these were the thoughts in Ramanuja's > mind. This shows NambigaL had not known the questions. He has only > conveyed Ramanuja's ViNNappam to PerumaL and re-conveyed what the > Lord had answered. > > (3) What were the Aru vaarthai? Bhagavan never says anything which are > incomprehensible to His subjects. He may give them concealed, but > never out of their reach. Particularly, at this important juncture in > Avatara mission of Srimad Ramanuja, Bahgavan will utter in such a way, > that posterity (we , the ordinary mortals too) understand His > upadesam. > > Looking at the Aru vaarthai, we automatically get to know the questions. > > The first two (not given in Sri Padmanabhan's mail) were to do with > Ramanuja's klEsham arising from altercations with Yadhava prakaasha. > > The first vaarthai :- "BedhamE dharshaNam" > From this the question is deduced – " What is right, bedham or > abedham? ( Or) What is Dharshanam? (This arises from the then > existing allegiance to abdEdha arguments promoted by Purva pakshins) > > The 2nd vaarthai :- "Para-tattwam naame" > From this, the question deduced is – "Who then is supreme?" (or) > "Which is para-tattwam?" (Here again Ramanuja would have wondered > about how to reconcile the Mandukya advaitic passages with the oft > repeated upanishadic verses of two birds sitting on a tree, one > shining and the other eating karma) Bhagavan has sided with the 2-bird > theory, thereby giving a clear signal on how to proceed, as this forms > the basis of the doctrine of Seshatwam. This clarity given by > Bhagavan is seen to be reflected in the final passages of Brahma > sutra, where Ramanuja effectively establishes the 'no' to cosmic > activity for the Released soul. > > These two form the basis of Emperumaanaar dharshanam. These are about > the "End" and the other 4 ( already mentioned in Sri Padmanabhan's > mail) are only about the other features that shaped 'process' or > 'means' to attain Him. On the basis of this, my humble conclusion is > that these two vaarthaigaL must have very much been the Declaratory > vaarthaigaL of Bhagavaan. > > Now the derivation of the 3rd question. > The 3rd vaarthai is – "Upaayamum prapatthiyE" > The obvious question is " Which is the upaayam" (Because there were as > many as 32 vidyas or methods of doing bhakti like Dahara vidya, Madhu > vidya etc, approved by Upanishads. But they were all to be followed > with strict austerities. Therefore Bhagavad concurrence was needed for > an easy upaayam to be promoted among the masses.) > > The 4th vaarthai:- "Anthima smruthiyum vEndA" > The deduced questions is :- "Does one need to think of Him at the time > of death?" > This question must have prompted by Gita vachan on what one thinks at > the time of death, one gets after death. What kind of salvation can an > ordinary mortal get, who can not think of Him at the final moments. > This is the genuine and compassionate concern for ordinary people like > us, that must have troubled Ilaaiyaazhwar. Bhagavan gave the green the > signal. > > The 5th vaarthai :- "SharIra avanAshatthilE Moksham" > The deduced question is :- " When does moksham occur?" > It is after the destroyal of body. Which body? Just the mortal body or > the body that carries works and gunas with it? It is here Bhagavad > Ramanuja formulated his prescription for how to shed the body with all > its attached materials. It is hereby "sarva phala tyaagam" outlined by > Bhagavan at the battle field is held as the supreme way to achieve it. > > The 6 th vaarthai:- "Peria Nambi ThiruvadigaLilE Ashrayippadu." > The obvious question is " To which Acharyan, should I surrender?" > The back ground details shed more light. > Sri ALAvandhaar has left. > Ramanuja had made a pledge that he would fulfill ALavandhaar's wishes > and found his folded fingers straighten on making this pledge. There > were obstacles to make all the wishes happen. But he had the word of > consolation fromPeriya nimbi "ShrEyOmsi bahu vignAni bhavanthi > mahathaam api" ( many obstacles do come in the way of people of > shereyas – but he must not lose his heart.). Such was the troubled > time for our Udayavar. > > > Coming to the question to which of the 5 questions did Ramanuja's 6- > questions belong, here is the reasoning. > > When NambhigaL made the ViNNappam, to PerumaL, He thought "The one who > knows in detail all these, is asking Me as how I asked Saandheepani > (in krishnaavathara)" and decided to clear his samshayam. > > Since Bhagavan Himself was said to have compared Ramanuja's > questioning with Himself questioning Sage Saandeepani in > Krishnaavatara, it is 100% clear that Ramanuja knows the answers. And > even other wise we know that he has known the answers and only that he > wanted concurrence from Perumaal. He wanted to be 100% sure. > > > ViDaiyai-th-thandavan vishayatthil irukkum – adu > > That was about clearing Ramanuja's samshayam - doubt whether he has > got them all right. Since Bhagavan made ThiruvulLAm to remove his > 'klEsham', it is known that it was for the purpose of removing > whatever little doubt is there in his mind. Added to this is the 6 th > question, as Ramanuja must have been feeling rudder-less. Bhagavan > has given the assurance and also the go-ahead signal by these aaru > vaarthaigaL. > > That is why this comes under 'Iyyam theerdal' - asking to clear > doubts, like how Yudhishtira asked Bheeshma, something discussed By > Sri Sadagopan Iyengar in his mail on 6 questions. > > Regards, > Jayasree saranathan > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! 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