You are here: SriPedia - Oppiliappan - Archives - Nov 2005

Oppiliappan List Archive: Message 00161 Nov 2005

 
Nov 2005 Indexes ( Date | Thread | Author )
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]


Dear Mrs Jayashree Saranathan,
Thanks a lot.That was what I had wanted
dAsan
vanamamalai padmanabhan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jayasree Saranathan" <jayasree.saranathan@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "sadagopaniyengar" <sadagopaniyengar@xxxxxxxx>;
<oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:15 PM
Subject: [Oppiliappan] Re: The Six Questions


> SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.
>
>
> There are 3  questions  involved in  this.
>
> (1) whether this is about 6 questions or not.
>
> (2) Whether the questions were openly raised or not / or the  answers
> were provided by Deva-p-perumaL by  mind-reading Ilaiaazhwar.
>
> (3)Under what category of 5 questions, these questions come under.
>
> Attempting to reply them..
>
> (1) Since by tradition, the 'Aaru vaarthai' exits, this is enough
> proof that there were 6 questions or issues for which Illaiaazhwar
> wanted PerumAL to answer.
>
> (2) Going by the accounts on this incident, (those who have access to
> original manuscripts, please reproduce them to know how the events
> unfolded. Here I am going by the account given by Sri Desoor Nallaan
> Chakravarthy Srinivasa Varadhan, former adhyaapaka of Sri
> Parthasarathy sannidhi, Triplicane,  in his book " Deva-p-perumALum,
> IrAmAnusa DharshaNamum" 1973 edition, Ratnam press) Illaiyaazhwar
> expressed his 'mana-klesham' to Thirukkachchi NambigaL and requested
> him to get replies from dEva-p-perumAl. Here a question may arise why
> Ramanuja himself didn't ask PerumAL. The reply to this question
> contains all answers on this issue.
>
> Ramanuja was then passing through a difficult period in his sojourn.
> It was on the suggestion of his mother, he approached Thirikkacchi
> NambigaL since he was close to Deva-p-perumAL ('andharangar to
> Deva-p-perumAL').
>
> He has just then received the biggest blow of not being able to
> surrender unto SrI AlavandhAr, in him having left for Thiru nAdu. It
> was Thirukkachchi NambigaL who consoled him that PeraruLALan would
> certainly show him the way and assured that he need not entertain any
> fear ("anja vEndaa"). It is for the kind of relationship that NambigaL
> enjoyed with Deva-p-perumAL and he enjoyed with Illaiaazhwar, that
> things took this shape. Ramanuja placed his request to NambigaL and
> NambigaL conveyed the request to PerumAL. When we, the simple mortals
> have been blessed by Him by receiving guidance when needed, without
> even asking for them, there is no need to doubt whether the questions
> were put forth by mouth or not. If we look at the supreme connection
> between Uadayavar and Deva-p-perumAL, we know that this was the time
> chosen by Him to get-start the mission of Ramanuja. Because after
> receiving these  Aaru vaarthai only, Bhagavad Ramanuja's Avatara
> mission started, by receiving pancha samakaaram at  Madhuranthakam. So
> we conclude that PerumAL gave the Aru vaarthai, to satisfy the 6
> questions that were  in Ramanuja's mind.
>
> This is further supported by NambigaL's enquiry when he conveyed the
> replies to Ramanuja, whether these were the thoughts in Ramanuja's
> mind. This shows NambigaL had not known the questions. He has only
> conveyed Ramanuja's ViNNappam to PerumaL and  re-conveyed what the
> Lord had answered.
>
> (3) What were the Aru vaarthai? Bhagavan never says anything which are
> incomprehensible to His subjects. He may give them concealed, but
> never out of their reach. Particularly, at this important juncture in
> Avatara mission of Srimad Ramanuja, Bahgavan will utter in such a way,
> that posterity  (we , the ordinary mortals too)  understand His
> upadesam.
>
> Looking at the Aru vaarthai, we automatically get to know the questions.
>
> The first two (not given in Sri Padmanabhan's mail) were to do with
> Ramanuja's klEsham arising from altercations with Yadhava prakaasha.
>
> The first vaarthai :- "BedhamE dharshaNam"
> From this the question is deduced – " What is right, bedham or
> abedham? ( Or) What is Dharshanam?  (This arises from the then
> existing allegiance to abdEdha arguments promoted by Purva pakshins)
>
> The 2nd vaarthai :- "Para-tattwam naame"
> From this, the question deduced is – "Who then is supreme?" (or)
> "Which is para-tattwam?" (Here again Ramanuja would have wondered
> about how to reconcile the Mandukya  advaitic passages with the oft
> repeated upanishadic  verses of two birds sitting on a tree, one
> shining and the other eating karma) Bhagavan has sided with the 2-bird
> theory, thereby giving a clear signal on how to proceed, as this forms
> the basis of  the doctrine of Seshatwam. This clarity given by
> Bhagavan is seen to be reflected in the final passages of Brahma
> sutra, where Ramanuja effectively establishes the 'no' to cosmic
> activity for the Released soul.
>
> These two form the basis of Emperumaanaar dharshanam. These are about
> the "End"  and the other 4 ( already mentioned in Sri Padmanabhan's
> mail) are only about the other features that shaped 'process' or
> 'means' to attain Him. On the basis of this, my humble conclusion is
> that these two vaarthaigaL must have very much been the Declaratory
> vaarthaigaL of Bhagavaan.
>
> Now the derivation of the 3rd question.
> The 3rd vaarthai is – "Upaayamum prapatthiyE"
> The obvious question is " Which is the upaayam" (Because there were as
> many as 32 vidyas or methods of doing bhakti like Dahara vidya, Madhu
> vidya etc, approved by Upanishads. But they were all to be followed
> with strict austerities. Therefore Bhagavad concurrence was needed for
> an easy upaayam to be promoted among the masses.)
>
> The 4th vaarthai:- "Anthima smruthiyum vEndA"
> The deduced questions is :- "Does one need to think of Him at the time
> of death?"
> This question must have  prompted by Gita vachan on what one thinks at
> the time of death, one gets after death. What kind of salvation can an
> ordinary mortal get, who can not think of Him at the final moments.
> This is the genuine and compassionate concern for ordinary people like
> us, that must have troubled Ilaaiyaazhwar. Bhagavan gave the green the
> signal.
>
> The 5th vaarthai :- "SharIra avanAshatthilE Moksham"
> The deduced question is :- " When does moksham occur?"
> It is after the destroyal of body. Which body? Just the mortal body or
> the body that  carries works and gunas with it? It is here Bhagavad
> Ramanuja formulated his prescription for how to shed the body with all
> its attached materials. It is hereby "sarva phala tyaagam" outlined by
> Bhagavan at the battle field is held as the supreme way to achieve it.
>
> The 6 th vaarthai:- "Peria Nambi ThiruvadigaLilE Ashrayippadu."
> The obvious question is " To which Acharyan, should I surrender?"
> The back ground details shed more light.
> Sri ALAvandhaar has left.
> Ramanuja had made a pledge that he would fulfill ALavandhaar's  wishes
> and  found his folded fingers straighten on making this pledge. There
> were obstacles to make all the wishes happen. But he had the word of
> consolation fromPeriya nimbi "ShrEyOmsi bahu vignAni bhavanthi
> mahathaam api"  ( many obstacles do come in the way of people of
> shereyas – but he must not lose his heart.). Such was the troubled
> time for our Udayavar.
>
>
> Coming to the question to which of the 5 questions did Ramanuja's 6-
> questions belong, here is the reasoning.
>
> When NambhigaL made the ViNNappam, to PerumaL, He thought "The one who
> knows in detail all these, is asking Me as how I asked Saandheepani
> (in krishnaavathara)" and decided to clear his samshayam.
>
>  Since Bhagavan Himself was said to have compared Ramanuja's
> questioning with  Himself questioning Sage Saandeepani in
> Krishnaavatara, it is 100% clear that Ramanuja knows the answers. And
> even other wise we know that he has known the answers and only that he
> wanted concurrence from Perumaal. He wanted to be 100% sure.
>
>
> ViDaiyai-th-thandavan vishayatthil irukkum – adu
>
> That was about clearing Ramanuja's samshayam - doubt whether he has
> got them all right. Since Bhagavan made  ThiruvulLAm to remove his
> 'klEsham', it is known that it was for the purpose of removing
> whatever  little doubt is there in his mind. Added to this is the 6 th
> question, as Ramanuja must have  been feeling rudder-less. Bhagavan
> has given the assurance and also the go-ahead signal by these aaru
> vaarthaigaL.
>
> That is why this comes under 'Iyyam theerdal' - asking to clear
> doubts, like how Yudhishtira asked Bheeshma, something discussed By
> Sri Sadagopan Iyengar in his mail on 6 questions.
>
> Regards,
> Jayasree saranathan
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>






------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    Oppiliappan-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 



[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index ] [Thread Index ] [Author Index ]
Home Page
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia
oppiliappan-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the list