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THE DIALOGUE BETWEN EMPERUMAN AND THIURMANGAI AZVAR
mAtRam vuLa-SETRAm vuLa -Agilum solluvan
 
Azvar when comparing himself with examples which indiate his precarious predicament, commences this final thirumozhi as
mATRamuLa and again the second pAsuram
SeTramuLa and
suffixes this by
Agilum solluvan.
 
mATRam vuLa
What does AzAr says
The Atman is a joyous one at paramapadham being inetertwined with the Lord. Notwithstanding this, this Atman is immersed in this samsAram.
 
EmperumAn: This is due to two basic factors
one, the indifferent attitude of the Atman. LIke, i will not see or think of Him.
Two, the effects of kArmam and cumulative results of the pApam and puNyam.
 
AGilum solluvan
AzvAr: The indifferent attitude is linked with the mind. This mind can be cleansed by the Grace of the Lord -maruvith thozhum manamEa thandhAi.
 
The second factor being kArmic effects is based on the actions of Atman.These actions indeed moot these effects.However, does not YOur grace capable of obliterating  these effects? EmperumAn is the owner of this ATman and logically is it not His look out to see that the Atman does not devitate from His path?
 
EmpeurmAn then questions the need for giving the physiques and knowledge? and AzvaR replies with the same logic. This goes on and that is why kaliyan mentions
mATRamuLa Agilum solluvan 11-8-1;
 
Sri Periya vAchAn piLLai's analysis: On what basis both argued.
EmperumAn based His arguments on karmam.AzvAr disproved it by talking of Brahmam.
EmperumAn based His arguments on vEDham. AzvAr aruged based on vEDhAntha thAthparyam.
EmperumAn based His arguments on Atma svarUpam.AzvAr dissipated this by argument based on
svarUpayAthAthmayam.
EmperumAn based His arguments parathanthryam and sAthYopAyam.
AzvAr destroyed this with sithOpAya arguement.
 
IDHU KANUM UPASAKARIL KATTIL PRABANNANUKKU YEatRam.
SETRamuLa: EmperumAn points out that the various mistakes of jEvan and this has resulted in
sustained presence in this world. Ignoring this should AZvAr bring forth the arguing as if
keeping the Atman-s in this world is EmperumAn's mistake.
 
Agilum solluvan: No.The regret for having still being kept in this world is not because of
not admitting the blunders but because of non-pardoning these blunders.
 
What can be the blunders which can make even the kAruNayanA sarvEsvaran angry
bhagath-bhAgavatha apachAram.
 
That is why kaliyan mentions
SETRam vuLa -Agilum seppuvan
 
Does this not sound similar to
the dialogue of SvAmi nam azvaR
'inRennai poruL Akki thannadhu ennuL vaithAi' 10-8 ThiruvAimozhi avathArikai Edu.
 
dasan
vanamamalai padmanabhan
 
 
 
 
 
 
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