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Sri:
Some clarifications.
 
If we look into Ramanuja's life history, we will find that srivaishnavism is not what the acharya coined as such.
It was Thirukkottoyur Nambi, who on being greatly moved by Ramanuja declaring the Thirumanthram for the sake of all, embraced him and said that this dharshanam which until then was known as " parama vaidiha siddhantham" would from thenceforth be known as "Emperumaanaar dharshanam."
This information + the justification for why vaishnava matham is anaadhi can be found in the book " Deva-p-perumaaLum Ramanuja dharshanamum" written by Thiruvallikkeni adhyaapaka, Sri Thirumalai Nallan Chakravarthi Srinivasa varadhan.
 
This Emperumaanaar dharshnam later came to be known as Sri vaishnava siddhantham, perhaps due to the reason that it is the same as Vaishnava siddhantham which you consider as different from Emperumaanaar dharshanam.
 
The information on Brahma being the first Sri vaishnavite or Vaishnavite as you may think, is told by Brahma himslef to Narada (Brahma puranam I guess, for I read this information in the above mentioned book which explains in detail every step involved in anointing Brahma as Sri vaishnavite.) I deliberately add sri, because this narration by Brahma includes the  Sri choornam too on his forehead. Brahma also says that it was Lord Hayagreeva who narrated him the relevance of Ashtaakshara after he received the upadesa from Sri Vishnu. This is followed by Brahma receiving the upadesa from Sri Vishnu on how to begin creation.
 
 
My opinion in my small undersatnding - It is not correct to think that Bhagavad Ramanuja 'invented' the concept of Sri and  included it in his dharshanam. He could not and would not have done unless it had existed in traditional texts. The above narration by Brahma had been in vogue before Emperumaanaar dharshanam.
 
Please pardon me for mistakes if any.
 
jayasree saranathan.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Oppiliappan] Re: Origin of SriVishnavisam

Sri:
I agree that vishnavisam existed before Ramanuja but not Sri Vishnavisam. I would like to know the name of scripture in which Sri Vishnu applied urhdwa Pundara to Brhma. Applying urdhwa Pundara means a Vishnavite mark and not SriVishnavite Mark.
 
Your inference on quote 5(Para) is totally wrong. In this para it is clearly mentioned that Krishna said "Teh Vaishnava" and not "Teh SriVishnava". This is because Srivishnavism did not exist then.
 
Adiyen Krishna Ramanuja Dasan

jayasartn <jayasree_saranathan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
SrI:

Some instances to show that vaishanvism existed before Ramanuja's
period.


(1)      In the very early times, that is, soon after creation,
it has been told in scriptures, that Vishnu, after
doing Jatha karma and naama karma to His first ever
uthpaththi(child) Brahma, proceeded to mark the
Shanku-chakra in his shoulders and then applied
oordhwa pundaram that culminated in pancha samskaram.
Brahma is perhaps the FIRST Srivaishnavan of the
universe.This episode also clarifies that
Srivaishnavism does not come as a birth right and as old as creation
itself.

(2)      When Thirumangai Alwar  wanted to marry Kumuda valli, she said
that she could not marry unless the person had
undergone pancha samskaram and the Alwar rushed to
Thirunaraiyoor (naachiyar koil) and had the
samashrayan done by God Himself. This is  prior to Ramanuja's period.


(3)      You will find in Thirunagai (nagapattinam ) sannidhi, the 18
vaarthaigal advised by
Thirukkottiyoor nambigal to Ramanuja written on
the wall.
Vaishnavattwam is said to come at the 10th level
only.
Prior to coming to attain it, the following must be
removed.
1. removal of desire in samsaram
2. this leads to removal of ahankaara, mamakaaram
3. this leads to removal of deha abhimaanam
4. this leads to birth of athma gyanam
5. this leads to hatred towards aeishwarya moham
6. this leads to onset of prema on bhagwan.
7. this leads to shedding of interest in
vishayantharangal
8. this leads to bhara thanthruva gyanam
9. this leads to removal of artha-kaama ragadwesham
(ref: BG 4-10- Madhbhavam)
10. this leads to onset of srivaishanttwam!




(4)      It happened in Kulashekara alwar's life.
When the ministers of the alwar blamed srivaishnavites,for the
disappearance of the navarathna maalai in the
thiruaaparana petti, the alwar refused to believe.
He was steadfast in his belief that srivaishnavites are pure on
tri-kaaran - they are pure in mind, vaak and body.
He even put his hand in a pot that had a serpent
inside  and pledged that he would not be bitten by the
serpent, because no srivaishnavite can do such a crime. And he was
unhurt. This shows how deep-rooted the ethos which a srivaishnavite
is identified with. Unless a strong code culture for vaishnavites had
existed for long, the alwar could not have gone to such extremes.

(5)      A quote on the dialogue between Yama dharma raja and Sri
Krishna. I think this comes in Mahabharataha.
Yamadjharman instructed his messengers to prostrate before the
srivaishnavites. A srivaishnavite can be identified in the following
way.
" Ye baahu moola parichinha shanka-chakra:
Yeva lalaada palakelasa oordhwa pundra:
Ye kanda lagna thulasi nalinaaksha mala:
Teh vaishnava: bhuvana maashubha vidhrayanthi"
The srivaishnavite can be identified by the shanku-chkra chinnam,
oordhwa pundaram and the thulasi maala.

(6)      Sri Krishna was said to have instructed his dwaara-
paalagas, before leaving the fort of Dwaaraka, to
allow sv-s inside, who can be identified by the
shanku-chakra dhaaranam and the oordhwa pundaram.
" chakraangitha: praveshtavyaa:
Yaavadaagamanam mama,
Naamudhritha: praveshtavyaa:
Yaavadaagamanam mama"


Inference:-
Srivaishnavism with the significatory marks and practices had existed
for very long. But it was Ramanuja who had arranged or codified them
into  a body of dos and donts for easy following and hence came to be
identified as founder of srivaishnavism.



Jayasree saranathan.



--- In Oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, honganour krishna
<hokrishna@xxxx> wrote:
> Dear Bhakthas,
> Followers of Vishnu are called as Vishnavas. And a vishnava could
be a brahmin, Kshtarya, or Vysya. To my knowledge nowhere in
Ramayana, Mahabharatha, or in Vishnu Purana a single mention of
Srivishnava is mentioned. These being the great epics and running in
volumes has no mention of Srivishnava brahmin but one will come
across mention of mearly vishnava brahmin. Lord Rama and Lord Krishna
who were Vishnavas never had Srivishnava Namam on their fore-head. If
Srivishnavism existed in the days of Rama then atleast single mention
of it would have been made in the Ramayana. We all know Rama had come
across so many different catagories of people existing at that time
in his journey from north to extreme south. It is very clear that
Srivishnavism was not there during Rama and Krishna Days.
Srivishnavism must have been started some time later. In Hindu
culture most of the great people are very modest that they do not
claim there authorship or finding and Srivishnavism is one of them.

> Adiyen Krishna Ramanuja dasan
>it your home page






Honganour Srinivasarangachar Krishna

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