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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00076 Apr 2004

 
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Dear Bhagavathas, 

I thought of sharing my father's email explaining 
Ubhayalingaadhikaranam, the dual nature of Brahman put

in terms for a novice like me to understand. 

Adiyen Ramanuja dasan 

Aravindan 
>*********************************** 
>As I told you, I am now translating a particularly 
>important Adhikarana in the second Pada of the third 
>Adhyaya of Brahma Sutras. As you may know, BS is 
>divided into four Adhyayas, each of it is subdivided 
>into four Padas. Each Pada is again divided into a 
>number of Adhikaranas. Each Adhikarana handles a
topic 
>, and can contain one or many Sutras . The one I am 
>going to say about is called Ubhayalingaadhikaranam. 
>It talks about the dual nature of Brahmam. 
> 
>The reference taken by the two commentators, Sankara 
>and Ramanuja to explain the Sutras of this Adhikarana

>is from Brahadharanyaka Upanishad, the longest 
>Upanishad which finds a place in Sukla Yajur Veda?s 
>Brahmana portion.. 
> 
>First I will give a simple translation of the portion

>of the Upanishad and then give the translation of the

>main Sutra. I hope it interests you. Incidentally
this 
>is the portion that contains the famous Neti, Neti 
>?not this, not this, statement, which is taken by 
>Advaities as Halwa for proving their belief in non 
>dualistic Nirguna Brahmam 
> 
>Brahadaranyaka Upanishad 2-3-1to6. 
> 
> There are two identifications for Brahmam.-
Formed 
>and Unformed. 
> (Lingam in Sanskrit means identification mark or 
>distinct characteristic. 
> Formed is what is manifest as the world we see. 
>Unformed means unmanifest or Brahman in the Sukshma 
>state at the time of pralaya.) Changing and 
>Changeless, Moving and Motionless, Existing and True.

> Formed B-is different from Air and Space. It is 
>Changing and Motionless-the Sun which gives warmth is

>the basis for It. 
> Air and Space are Formless Brahmam. It is 
>changeless and Moving. The Person who is near the Sun

>is the basis for It.(the ?soul? of Sun is the basis) 
> This Person is in our right eye. 
> He is like Saffron coloured robe, White woollen

>blanket, Rainbow coloured insect, White lotus, 
>Lightning. He who knows Him becomes famous. The 
>Vedas say-(He is) not this not this ,since there is 
>nothing above Him. Not this, Not this. His
designation 
>is Truth of Truth. Prana only is True. He is its 
>Truth. 
> What are given in brackets are mine. Is it very 
>confusing? Now I give the translation of BS 3 2 
>21.Sankara and Ramanuja differ in finding the meaning

>to this Sutra which I will try to explain to you .
Now 
>the translation. ?What have been rejected as Neti, 
>Neti, are only the forms of Brahmam told in the Vedas

>earlier. After saying Neti Neti the Vedas are going
to 
>tell again about Brahmam?s qualities? Not this, not 
>this only indicates towards the inexhaustible, 
>infinite Gunas of B, says Ramanuja. It only means to 
>say much more than this, much more than this. Sankara

>says Neti, Neti indicates Brahmam is neither the 
>formed nor the unformed ones said earlier. What is 
>said earlier should be used as directions to reach B 
>and not as B itself. If on the highway you see a 
>direction board saying Chennai 325 km with an arrow 
>sign, you don?t take the board as Chennai-you take it

>only as a direction giver, nothing more nothing less.

>The trouble with this approach is, we end up in a 
>vacuum about B. The whole purpose of our
investigation 
>in to Brahmam becomes a pointless exercise. Further
in 
>the following Sutras it is said B can be realised 
>through meditation and that a sincere person can 
>realise B Remember BS starts with a statement ?Let us

>investigate into B? So we ask Sankara What is this 
>realisation ,if B is a vacuum! Read the above 
>carefully, you will realise the similarity between 
>Sankara?s philosophy and the Schrodinger?s cat?s 
>status inside the box according to quantum mechanics.

>Saying that something is in an indeterminate state is

>the same as telling I don?t know. Sankara gets into 
>this state when he attempts to describe B. 
> 
> 
> >From: Arvind Rajagopalan <rwind_raj@xxxx> 
> >To: rajagop_s@xxxx 
> >Subject: Fwd: [ramanuja] Re: dangerous similarity 
>between our sampradaya & abrahamic religion 
> >Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:23:25 -0700 (PDT) 
> > 
> >Dear Appa, 
> > 
> >Thought this might interest you 
> > 
> 
> >--- Lakshmi Narasimhan <nrusimhann@xxxx>
wrote: 
> > > To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > From: "Lakshmi Narasimhan"
<nrusimhann@xxxx> 
> > > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:26:40 -0000 
> > > Subject: [ramanuja] Re: dangerous similarity 
>between 
> > > our sampradaya & abrahamic religion 
> > > 
> > > srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha 
> > > srImath vara vara munayE namaha 
> > > srI annan thiruvadigalE saranam 
> > > 
> > > Dear bhAgavathAs, 
> > > kaivalyam is not a bad decision that is being
made 
> 
> > > by a jIva. We all 
> > > know that bhagavAn is the show runner and he 
> > > provides the result of 
> > > every act performed by us. Those who ask for 
>swargam 
> > > are given the 
> > > same based on their punyams that they
accumulate. 
> > > Same with paapis. 
> > > They are given hell as they deserve the same. In

> > > case of kaivalyam, 
> > > the TK position is that, the jIva is performing 
> > > upAsanai of itself. 
> > > Well, the point is, jIva is a nithya vasthu. So,

>if 
> > > the jIva demands 
> > > an eternal self worship (nithya jIva upAsanai),
it 
> 
> > > cannot be given a 
> > > place in the lIla vibhuthi. So, bhagavAn gives 
>these 
> > > jIvas a place 
> > > in the eternal abode i.e the nithya vibhuthi.
But, 
> 
> > > due to the very 
> > > nature of this worship(self worship), the place 
> > > becomes devoid of 
> > > bhagavadh / bhAgavadha - kadAksham, ArAdhanam
etc. 
> 
> > > That is why this 
> > > place is compared to a cemetry (yedu nilam in 
> > > tamil). This cemetry 
> > > exists in the nithy vibhuthi and is worse than
the 
> 
> > > hell, for, a jIva 
> > > could recover from hell and could be given a 
>chance 
> > > to attain 
> > > moksham whereas kaivalyarthis never get a chance

>to 
> > > perform 
> > > bhagavadh ArAdhanam again. The only hope for 
> > > kaivalyarthis would be, 
> > > the sankalpam of bhagavAn, that could bring them

>out 
> > > of that place. 
> > > 
> > > Reg: Both sampradAyas accept kaivalyam as an 
> > > inferior position to 
> > > the bhagavad-sAyujyam/parama padam 
> > > 
> > > Yes. Kailvalyam is inferior from the perspective

>of 
> > > both the 
> > > sampradayams, but, per, vedAnta desikar, one
could 
> 
> > > recover from that 
> > > place. Also, per vedAnta desikar, there is no 
> > > concept of the various 
> > > types of mokshams sAyujyam(no swapravrutti, 
> > > prapatthi is not an 
> > > upAyam, bhagavadh mukha ullAsame 
> > > purushArtham-defectless), sArupyam 
> > > (no swapravrutti, but the defect is using 
>prapatthi 
> > > as upAyam), 
> > > sAmeepyam(defect is swapravrutti - bhagavadh 
> > > upaasakaas) or sAlokyam 
> > > (kaivalyam) - there is just one and only one 
> > > moksham. 
> > > 
> > > adiyen would like to stand corrected if I had
made 
> 
> > > any mistakes. All 
> > > of the above information are based on adiyen's 
>weak 
> > > understandings 
> > > from upanyasams. Kindly pardon my mistakes if
any. 
> 
> > > 
> > > Adiyen, 
> > > Ramanuja Dasan 
> > > 
> > > Azhwar Emperumaanaar Jeeyar Thiruvadigale
Saranam 
> > > PS: Post has nothing to do with blaming or 
> > > mentioning the the TK or 
> > > the VK sampradayam is wrong. Intent is just to 
>share 
> > > the information 
> > > grasped in upanyasams. Corrections are most 
>welcome. 
> > > 
> > > --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Vishnu" 
> > > <vsmvishnu@xxxx> wrote: 
> > > > Dear Sriman Kasturi Rangan, 
> > > > 
> > > > It may not seem to be dangerous to all! The 
>issue 
> > > of Kaivalya 
> > > mOskha 
> > > > and the ThennAchArya position is likely to be 
> > > addressed in the 
> > > coming 
> > > > updates of our yatirajadasa website. At this 
> > > moment, I do not have 
> > > > much idea. Learend bhAgavatas may answer your 
> > > question. 
> > > > 
> > > > Regards 
> > > > Vishnu 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "amshuman_k" 
> > > <amshuman_k@xxxx> 
> > > wrote: 
> > > > > Dear bhAgavatas, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > One of the difference between the two kalais

>is 
> > > the nature of 
> > > > > kaivalyam. Both sampradAyas accept kaivalyam

>is 
> > > inferior to 
> > > > bhagavad- 
> > > > > sAyujyam/parama padam. However, the
thenkalai 
> > > position is that - 
> > > it 
> > > > > is permanent; (from the explanation of a TK 
> > > Acharya), the jIvan 
> > > > made 
> > > > > a bad decision; it asked for it, aspired for

>it 
> > > and got it. So, 
> > > it 
> > > > is 
> > > > > stuck with it. 
> > > > > Isn't this dangerously similar to a
christian 
> > > claim that "accept 
> > > > > Jesus or you will goto eternal hell?" (You 
>make 
> > > a bad decision 
> > > of 
> > > > not 
> > > > > accepting christ; you asked for it and got 
>it). 
> > > I request 
> > > > > clarifications from learned bhAgavatas. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Regards, 
> > > > > KK 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >__________________________________ 
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> 
> 
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