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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00107 Feb 2004

 
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Dear Sriman Kasturi Rangan,
Dasoham.
I am more than convinced about Gayatri and Sandhya as a "Nitya karma". Thanks a 
lot for your painstaking effort at well reasoned discussion. It is extremely 
educative to uninformed people like me. My point is a little different. For 
exmaple I do not think that your statement 
"rAmAnuja need not and would not 
say 'gAyatrI upAsana' is be all and end all, because that would 
exclude women, shUdras and avarNas. However, that automatically 
doesn't imply that those who are eligible should go ahead and 
foresak" 
is correctly capturing Ramanuja's views. I am not denying that the "Nitya 
karma" should be scrupulously followed as it is part of "varnashrama dharma". 
My point is "Ramanuja need not and would not say 'Gayatri Upasana' is be all 
and end all", because he does not think so (my understanding) in the context of 
"parama purushartha" that is "moksha". Not because he has some social agenda!!! 
I do not think that Sri Ramanuja is prescribing "Bhakti and Prapatti" for 
non-dvijas and "Nitya karma" as "mokshopaya". Ofcourse, in the process I am not 
trying to diminish the importance of "Nitya karma". I just want to say that it 
has got its context. 
Again, I thought I should not drag issue further, purely because somewhere I 
seem to be ending on the wrong side of "Nitya karma" discussion, for that is 
not my wont. But, this discussion seems to have lot of educational value in the 
topics rarely discussed in Srivaishanva fora. Hence, I dare to keep the issue 
alive.

Adiyen
Srinivasadasa 

P.S. :
Some where I read that Sri Sudarshana Suri of "Shrutaprakashika" fame has 
written a commentary on "Apasthamba Dharma Sutra" (Or is it Gruhya Sutra?). 
Probably that may throw more light on whole lot of vidika karmas from our 
sampradayic perspective 
amshuman_k <amshuman_k@xxxx> wrote:
Dear Sri Srinivasa chari,

Accept my praNAms. Seems like you are not convinced about gAyatrI :-).
First of all the sAvitrI mantra is not for everybody and you are 
right in that our sampradAyam promises something more - eligibility 
of women, shUdras and avarNas (no offence is meant for any category). 
If I am right, only the twice-born were eligible for seeking brahma-
gnyana according to advaitins.
I don't have the 'nityam' work by rAmAnuja with me right now but 
remember seeing brahma yagnyam, vaiswedevam etc. apart from sandhya 
as daily duties. Let us go from here.

#1: pAncharAtra samhitas have a distinct vaishNava type 
sandyavandanam. There the gAyatrI mantra is not chanted, but vishNu 
gAyatrI in morning, dvAdashaksharI in afternoon and ashtAksharI in 
the evening.
Our pUrvAchAryas did not throw away the existing 'vedic' sandhya into 
dustbin, right? Perhaps, throwing it away and replacing with Agamic 
practices might be a good idea. Subsequent generations may not be 
squeamish about worshipping 'various vedic deities' apart from 
nArAyaNa and 'can have the right bhAvam', because worship of nArAyaNa 
is explicit instead of as a hidden antaryAmi in vedic savita, agni, 
mitra, varuNa, indra etc. :)

#2: What is the scope of rAmAnuja sampradAyam? Was it vedanta or 
elucidation of dharma sUtras? It isn't necessary to go over dharma 
sUtras, shruti etc. once again, as we accept them as pramANas (unlike 
bauddhas and jainas who reject them). Our issues are with mImAmsakas 
who relegate gnyAna kAndam as mere artha vAdam and hence unnecessary 
(though we may agree with them with respect to karma kAndam) and 
advaitins, who according to us give distorted meaning for 
upanishads :). 

#3: If a shUdra or avarNa is guaranteed eligibility for brahma gnyAna 
and moksha, what is the necessity to do any of the vedic practices? 
At most, by forsaking them, a dvija will be a bhrashtA, but still 
have eligibility for brahma gnyAnam & moksham, in our sampradAyam, 
right? Why then sandhya is included in the nityam?


Forgive me if I seem to be beating around the bush. My understanding 
(may be incorrect) is that rAmAnuja need not and would not 
say 'gAyatrI upAsana' is be all and end all, because that would 
exclude women, shUdras and avarNas. However, that automatically 
doesn't imply that those who are eligible should go ahead and 
foresake it, as he includes performance of them in his nityam. 

He doesn't need to re-describe the efficacy of them, because it was 
already done so by vedas, by our rishis and sUtrakAras. We don't have 
any objection to the works of sUtrakAras. (We go to the extent of 
allowing animal sacrifice in the context of srauta yagnyas and do not 
accept the pishTa pashu (flour animal) replacement that madhvas use. 
Remember, suggestion of pishTa pashu (jain polemic nIlAkshi for e.g., 
vayu purANam) was there for a long time and rAmAnuja had an option of 
adopting it).

However, nowhere it is said that you can go ahead and ignore all 
others except sandhyA. The subtle difference as pointed out by Shri 
Venkatesan is, "even if you ignore all others, do not ignore sandhyA".


Regards,
Kasturi Rangan

--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, srinivasa chary <srinivasadasa@xxxx> 
wrote:
> Dear Shri Kasturi Rangan,
> Thank you for very informative posts on Sandhya, Gayatri 
and related issues from Brahmanas, Dhramasutras, etc. Needless to say 
the evidence is overwhelmingly in your favour. I would still have 
preferred for pramanas from within Sri Ramanuja sampradayam as done 
in postings of some of the bhagavathas. While there is no intention 
here to argue that Sri Ramanuja sampradayam is out side the pale of 
Dharma sUtra, is n't it true that the sampradayam promises something 
more than Gayatri to its votaries, and that something should be 
focussed on? Or should we follow Gayatri Upasana, so gloriously 
praised in Brahmanas, as the be-all-and-end-all? 
> Just to tempt you to disseminate more information from your 
Vedic research!
> Regards,
> Srinivasadasa 
> 



azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam



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