You are here: SriPedia - Ramanuja - Archives - Feb 2006

Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00091 Feb 2006

 
Feb 2006 Indexes ( Date | Thread | Author )
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]


Sri:

Dear Bhagavathas,

Pranams. Since adiyen was the first one to respond to Sri. Balaji's original posting on this subject, adiyen feel a neccessity to respond to the present state on the subject. In all the earlier emails, including Sri. Mohan swamin's mail, there were no statements made about GV sampradhayam. None of the members belonging to the Sri Vaishnava samprahdayam intend to make any such statements about other sampradhayams, especially GV. Infact Sri. Mohan swamin, very humbly acknowledged the fact the GV sampradhayam influenced his life. The main point stressed by members of the Sri Vaishnava sampradhayam is very simple. "We Sri Vaishnavas do not consider nama samkirtanam as a means for salvation. Hence we do not agree to the rituals of chanting a prescribed number of times certain mantras, what ever that mantra be". This in simple  terms is the response provided to Sri. Balaji's mail.

Hoewever, this mail from Sri. Ranagasamy sets the tone as if Sri Vaishnava members are making half truth statements about other sampradhayas. This is not true. This chain of email started becuase of a request from a member belonging to GV sampradhyam requesting every one to chant certain number of times a mantra for salvation. We merely stated Sri Vaishnava view point as a response. There is no denial or refutal of any other view points. None of the Sri Vaishnava members made any critical comment about why GVs are following certain procedures. That is something outside of Sri Vaishnava sampradhayam and we are not interested in that. Period.

Hence, the recommandations by Sri. Rangasamy to read certain literature of that sampradhaym is irrelevant and also statements like Sri Vaishnava members initiating comments about other sampradhyam in Sri Vaishnava forums and trying to establish someone's superiority in one's own backyard are all  unwarrented. Each sampradhaym has its own unique procedures and beliefs. It is with utmost humbless Sri Vaishnavas respect that. Let us just try to follow what our poorvacharyas have stated rather tham cross questioning some one else.

Kindly accept my appologies for any mistakes from my part in initiating this chain of mails.

Adiyen
Ramanuja Dasan.



"Jai Simman R. Rangasamy" <rjsimman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hare Krishna.

I have been following this thread on the power of the
Lord's Holy Names for sometimes. Sri Mohan Sagar has
presented the Sri Vaishnava view, either wholly or
partly, in terms of kalai opinions, in an accurate
manner. However with all due respect to him, his view
of the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint has been
simplisitic. Perhaps the fault does not lie with him,
since this is a forum to discuss Sri Vaishnavism. I
shall not go into the details of the Gaudiya Vaishnava
siddhanta related to nama-tattva on this forum and end
up being deemed irrelevant.

However, I wish to only state the following:

1. Nama-tattva is a subject that fills volumes of
Gaudiya Vaishnava literature and to summarise just one
side to things, based on one's own reading of one
statement, will not do justice.

2. There are different stages of nama japa and kirtana
and the moods differ in terms of the spiritual
maturity of the sadhaka in terms of kanistha
(neophyte), madhyama (middle) and uttama (topmost). As
such, the views of the Holy Names of the Lord are
relative in this regard.

3. In the ultimate issue, albeit differences of
semantics, the GV school also says that the recitation
of the Lord's Names is not representative of any
external means. It is done purely for His pleasure
only. But for the conditioned souls who see things as
a matter of sadhana and sadhya or means and end, the
Name functions in that way. But in the ultimate issue,
the Name is the means and end for in reciting It, only
the Lord's pleasure is the purpose.

The Nama in the ultimate issue while appearing to be
an external sadhana for the conditioned soul, is
ultimately the internal sadhya as well because in the
liberated state, one is doing the same function of
reciting the Names in a spontaneous manner in loving
the Lord. In vaidhi bhakti, rounds are fixed. In raga
bhakti or spontaneous devotion, the name is uttered in
spontaneous joy in full realisation of Its none
difference from the Lord Himself. The emphatic claim
to The Name being the means does not exclude It from
being the end and internally the Lord and the Lord's
pleasure potency as well. Ultimately, it is the Lord's
choice to grant salvation or love of Godhead. But on
the basis of the Acharya's guarantee, one who properly
does the sadhana with faith will come to the platform
of understanding all these issues. So essentially, no
one is saying that parrot-like chanting is a demand
that the Lord will fulfil to give salvation or
devotion. But, when one takes up the process with
faith, then based on the Vaishnava's assurance, the
Lord out of His love for His devotees' words, if He
pleases, helps the sadhaka realise and progress to
chanting the Names only for His pleasure.
I am aware of certain differences between
Visishtadvaita and Achintya-bedha-abedha in
understanding the internal potency of the Lord
vis-a-vis His Name, form, qualities, pastimes, etc.

Let us remember that when Srila Prabhupada was ill, he
told his disciples to pray to Lord Nrsimha that "My
Dear Lord, IF YOU SO DESIRE, please help our spiritual
master in executing his will to please You for his
work is unfinished." So besides so much semantic
wrangling, I think it is important to note that Nama
tattva in both schools, is not a matter of just one
slant and one strand but covers substantial
literatures that are not exhaustive by any means.

For further accurate information of the GV view,
please read Srila Prabhupada's purports as well as
books such as Hari-nama-chintamani,
Sri-bhajana-rahasya, etc, by Srila Bhaktivinode
Thakura and other books by earlier acharyas. It's not
much of a use speculating based on some personal
understanding of just a few strands of quotations on a
forum external to the sampradaya in focus here.

I think it is best to represent one's sampradaya
properly but one should not speak for another line in
half-truth, without knowing the entire gamut of the
issue from the side of the other. And especially
speaking thus in an open forum meant only to
thoroughly discuss one of the sampradayas would mean
limited response with limited options for members of
the other sampradayas in replying and explaining, as
well as possible blurring of full reality by the
overpowering collective views of those affiliated with
the forum and its representative sampradaya.

I would likewise urge those posting to keep
discussions to the Sri Vaishnava line. If any views
are sought of the GV position, please send postings to
groups such as achintya@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Please do not
cross-post just to pit one against another and do
comparative studies. This is not a comparative forum
in a thoroughly neutral exhaustive sense. The
comparative element is basically the discretion of the
individual but he or she should get each sampradaya's
views from the respective sampradaya adherents and
figure things out for himself / herself.
It should not be the business of sampradaya-based
forums to critically discuss comparative issues in a
forum which is not equally represented by adherents of
the sampradaya whose views are being placed under
scrutiny. There is no option for a well-represented
counter voice. It is basically akin to heralding one's
own superiority in one's own backyard based on one's
own frameworks. It does not present anything
accurately or neutrally or holistically.

Hare Krishna


ys
r. jai simman
jakarta




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com





Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam
http://www.vedics.net





SPONSORED LINKS
Bhagavad gita Culture Ways of
Sri


YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS





[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index ] [Thread Index ] [Author Index ]
Home Page
http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia
ramanuja-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To subscribe to the list