srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha srImadh varavara munayE namaha Dear Smt Sumitra, I have some queries regarding your posting below. ---- Quote 1 ------- When we see the kalyana gunas of the Bhagavan it is no doubt that he has Nirheduka krupai on the jeevatmas. But if he starts showing his krupai on one and all without any reason just because of his apaara kaarunyam then all of us will go to moksham and the leela vibhuti of the bhagavan will become zero. But Bhagavan is considered to be ubhaya vibhuti nadan and he wants to maintain both his vibhutis so Emperuman has put a limitation to his krupai. ---- Unquote 1------- I feel this problem of 'sarva mukhti prasangam' (mOksha to all) will be an issue, only if WE try to fix the actions of emberumAn. If you say that He should not grant mOksha to anybody just because He desires, isn't it an intrusion on His independence which is unfettered. If we say that, He is looking for a pretext on the part of the chEtana to shower His grace, isn't it a shortcoming of His guNA of 'nirankusa swAthantriyam' (unfettered independence). Now regarding the existence of the ubhaya vibhUthi, please note that the vEdAs only say that the distribution of the AtmAs in this prakruthi is balanced. While they do not talk about 'creation' of an AtmA, they also don't say that it is not at all possible to 'create' an AtmA. In fact, our dearest AzhwArs are true paratantras to Sriman nArAyaNan that, they cannot accept even a small shortcoming on the part of emberumAn even indirectly. They talk about the jeevAtma creation in many places and use the word "padaitthu" to denote even the creation of AtmAs. If we believe this, then where is the question of the non-existence of this leela vibhUthi, incase He grants mOksham to one and all. So if He grants mOksham to whoever, He decides (true nirhEtuka krupA), then He knows to balance the jeevAtmAs in this world and hence He will create them to balance it. Also we cannot say that, just because the vEdAs doesn't talk explicitly about the creation of the jeevAtmAs, this cannot be accepted. Because, if we are to accept that He cannot create the AtmAs, then His poorNatvam is under question. In my humble opinion, this vaishamya - nairkruNya dOsham on the part of emberumAn is only because we shed our swaroopam of pArathanthriyam to Him and start fixing His actions rather that follow His actions. --------- Quote 2 -------------- Any father will like to show his love for all his sons and daughters equally. We are all children of the same Parabrahmam. Then why should the lord be partial. Only to explain his impartially Emperuman expects some good deeds from us. So he says when you are my bhaktha and you fall to my feet and do saranagati I am destined to save you. --------- Unquote 2 -------------- Please note that while I don't differ in this subject, I would like to explain more further on this. It is these lines that have caused utter confusions and gave rise to various interpretations and hence the difference in kalais. Actually when He tells us to fall at His feet etc., it has to be interpreted as that He is giving the knowledge about the jeevAtma swaroopam which is pArathanthriyam. So when He has given this knowledge, because of which we may fall at His feet, a misinterpretation here leads the jeevAtmA to believe as if he/she has done some thing which has earned the mOksha and hence the sAdhyOpAyams will get you mOksham. Remember the thirumAlai pAsuram "mEmporuL pOga viTTu.." in which Sri thoNdaradippodi AzhwAr says " vAzhum sOmbarai ugatthi pOlum". This very clearly proves that while emberumAn may say that He found a pretext, one should not consider it as mandatory on His part to grant the mOksham. It is His swaroopam or His swAthanthriyam which makes Him to look for a pretext. He may or may not wait for a pretext. Explaining further, it is okay for emberumAn to grant mOksham for two types of pretexts. One is the act which the jeevAthmA performs with knowledge about the relationship of himself with that of paramAthmA. These are the acts of performing saraNAgathi etc. The second is the act that the jeevAtmA performs without the true knowledge of the nature of his soul or the relationship with that of paramAthmA. This is what the AzhwArs have said as "en ooraich chonnAi, en pEraich chonnAi.." etc., The AzhwArs and AchAryAs say that He grants mOksham for the jeevAtma, by constituing the second one also as a pretext. If we analyse both, will we agree that the acts performed by the jeevAtma, with and without knowledge can be construed as both equal. We will surely say that on the part of jeevAthmA, the second type of the jeevAthmA is only lucky and that his act is in no way equal to that of the first type of jeevAthma. So how can you justify the act on the part of emberumAn to grant mOksha to both the type of acts. This is exactly the nirhEtuka krupA. The second type of act is to bring out and make this world realize His sowlabhyam and apAra kAruNyam that He will even consider the illiterate acts of the jeevAthmA as a pretext to issue mOksha. So if we are to say that, there needs to be a pretext for Him to grant mOksha, how will we just the mOksha conferred on the second type of people referred about. So please do not interpret these pretexts as mandatory on part of jeevAthmA , more so on the part of emberumAn. It is just His pure nirhEtuka kripa which gives mOksha to the jeevAthma. He is unbound and unfettered. He can do anything He wants, He can look for a pretext or even not. How can we question His acts. If we are to question His acts then that is the utmost ego on our parts and sure you all know what is the effect of this ego on the jeevAthmA. Summarizing, the pretexts what He looks for are not a mandatory ones for Him, but it is just He wishes to look for one. So if this is understood properly, the concept of nirhEtuka krupA will be very clear and as a FREE GIFT the concept of siddhOpAyam will also be very clear. This will prove that no act on the part of the jeevAthmA earns Him the mOksha and it is only the emberumAn's nirhEtuka krupa which earns the jeevAthmA the mOksha. The most apt words were written by Smt Sumitra as follows ;- ------ Quote 3 ----------- Doing saranagathi is not a ritual but it is heartfelt feeling. We have to mentally accept that we are incapable of protecting ourselves and our sole protector is only Sriman Narayanan and he is the only person who can grant us the moksha. We should accept him as both the upayam(the way) and also the Upeyam(the goal) and surrender to his feet. ------ Unquote 3 ----------- This is the right spirit our AzhwArs and AchAryAs have been trying to inculcate in us. We have to live true to this spirit. AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressed individual or entity indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person). It must not be read, copied, disclosed, distributed or used by any person other than the addressee. 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