Dear members,
I have been following this thread with interest. I would like to
put forward the following information. It is a slightly long post.
During the sixties, at the height of the hippy movement with all
it's paraphernalia, there was a rock band called "the Beatles"
(they're only the most well known group in history
probably!).
Anyway, in this group was a guitarist by the name of George Harrison.
As you may be aware of, during the hippy period there was a lot
of interest in things with an Indian flavour. Transcendental
Meditation, Yoga and that kind of thing were becoming popular in the
west. Initially inspired by Indian music, and then coming to
philosophy (via Transcendental Meditation and reading Yogananda),
George Harrison finally came to know about the Hare Krishna movement.
For the rest of his life (he died in 2001) he had a strong
association with them and identified with many aspects of their
philosophy.
Now interestingly, he also produced lots of music on his albums
(mainly 'rock'/'pop' - not sure how many of you will like that sort of
music) which was heavily influenced by Krishna Bhakti. Imagine that,
rock music with bhakti! His most famous song was called "My Sweet
Lord", lyrics as follows:
My sweet Lord,
Oh my lord,
Oh my sweet lord,
I really want to see you
I really want to be with you
I really want to see you lord but it takes so long my Lord,
Oh my lord,
My sweet Lord,
I really want to know you
I really want to go with you
I really want to show you lord that it won't take long my Lord.
He also chants the "Hare Krishna mahamantra" in the background through
out the song.
Anyone can appreciate the bhakti in this song - it is pure longing
for a relationship of service with PerumAL. However, at the end he
includes the verse
"Guru brahma gurur vishnu gurur devo maheshwara guru saakshaat param
brahma tasmai shree gurave namah"
Which, I guess a lot of members will say is not in line with
Vaishnavam.
However - it is probably this song alone - that influenced HUGE
numbers of westerners to TAKE NOTICE of the Krishna movement and then
become associated with Vaishnavism. I think I have even heard some
quotes from full ISCKON pujaris saying that without George Harrison's
song, they would never have known Krishna or come into contact with
the Gaudiya movement.
This is much the same for me. Born and raised in a vaguely
'Hindu' household, much more important to my parents was the music
they played (which I love even today). And without George Harrison's
music I would not have come back to my own roots - Sri Vaishnavam.
Listening to him for me was definitely not "time-pass" - it was a
rediscovering of my traditional and spiritual origins.
My *main point is this*: George Harrison was no prapanna in our
sense of the word. He didn't know the details of Vishishtaadvaitam.
He probably didn't live a very 'regulated' life according to our
traditional customs (although he did adopt many of them). But he was
instrumental in bring many to (and back to) Vaishnavam. So when we go
and say whether a piece of music is "sampradaayic" or not, I would
humbly ask that we do not rush to judge it on a slightly esoteric
philosophical point as to "are they in conformity with
Vishishtaadvaitam". Instead let us try and appreciate all the
different shades of bhakti that have been with us throughout history
and try and look for the positives - whether it is Tyaagaraaja,
Dikshitar or George Harrison. He may not have been a RAmanuja
sampradayin, but I will quite happily sing his songs as devotional.
Incidentally members may be interested to know there was another
british rock band in the 90s called "Kula Shaker" who were also very
influenced by Krishna bhakti - their name of course comes from
"Kulasekhara aazhvaar".
It is impossible to ban every 'un-Sri Vaishnava' piece of music
from your music collection in my opinion. Far more exciting for me is
to try and find the "Sri Vaishnava" in everyone, whether they know it
or not! To me, pretty much *every* piece of music, whether a bhajan
or not, is something spiritual - we need not categorise into
'time-pass' and 'devotional' - so I humbly ask us to try and take a
step back before we judge the devotional songs of people like our
beloved Tyaagaraaja (and who knows, one day we all may even appreciate
the "bhakti" in the music of Bach too!)
I apologize sincerely for any offences caused to anyone.
sarvAparAdhAn kshamasva
with praNAmams,
Ranjan
"Only thing that matters to me is to touch your Lotus Feet"
--- George Harrison, "Stuck Inside a Cloud", 2001
--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, vimalkumar ranganathan
<panardasan@xxxx> wrote:
>
> Sri:
> The point put succintly: Yes, singing ISKCON bhajans is fine, for
they are in the pure bhakthi mode, and their intent is pure bhakti too.
>
> As for Sri Pritesh SwAmin's unfamiliarity with Tamil, I am sure he
will be glad to know that Vedics Foundation is working on translating
all the AzhvArs' and AchAryAs' works into simple, easy to understand
English.
>
> -dasan.
>
> pritesh patel <tesh_tel@xxxx> wrote:
> Ja Shri Krishna, i originaly stared this discusion. Firstly i
would like to offer my Pranams and thanks all the bhakthas who have
kindly replied, you have all given very nice replies which i am
greatly satisfied with.
>
> However i would like to respond to a comment made my Bhaktha Vinod
who mentioned
> "Then the question remains, ` why do we want to chant
> the slokas written by non sri vaishnavas? Are there no
> sufficient works of Sri vaishNava Acharyas that we
> have to resort to other sAmpradAyas????????' "
>
>
> In response to this comment i would firstly like to say, yes the
works of the Sri Vaishnava Achayaras are sufficient for spiritual
progress, if this was not the case i would not look to Sri Vaishanavam
as a bonofide path. I am in full conviction that the teachings of
Ramanuja and other archaryas in the parampara are a true and complete
broadcast of the Vedas...However to respond fully to your question i
would ask if the context of my original post is taken into
consideration. I am a British born Gujarati, i have very basic
knowledge of Hindi and Gujarati let alone Tamil and Sanskrit which are
the two main languages Srivaishnava hyms have been composed in. Due
> to my knowledge of Hindi/Gujarati i am able to recite Sanskrit
hyms but with great difficulty. Therefore i feel the need to recite
bhajans and Keertans in Hindi and Gujarati (such as tulasidas and
Narsihn mehta)..
>
> Another point i must make is that here in the Britian there very
few Srivaishanavas, so even though i follow Ramanuja Sidhanta, ISKCON
which is more larger remains a major part in developing my bhakthi.
Due to fewer language barriers i find the ISKCON keertans easier to
sing and have expreinced great joy and Hari bhakthi whilst doing so.
>
> Again thanks for all your kind replies
> Jai Sri Krishna.
>
> vinod sv <winode_sv@xxxx> wrote:
> SrI:
> SrImatE rAmAnujAya nama:
> SrI lakshmI narasimha parabrahmaNE nama:
>
> dear vaishNavas,
>
> Respect others, worship yours.
>
> This is a simple suggestion with its meaning being
> very deep.
>
> SrI AchArya's instruction can be analyzed as
>
> Respect all other's even if it is unacceptable to you,
> as it is other's; but nevertheless worship yours only.
> -> `Tolerate' others in all circumstances even if
> theirs is against yours; but nevertheless continue to
> worship yours only.
>
> And this simple instruction also suggests us not to
> accept other's simply because you have to respect
> others; but `practice yours ONLY'.
>
> However, most people take it as accepting other's
> views for us to respect theirs. In reality, we can
> respect other's views without accepting them. A Hindu
> can respect a Christian without accepting
> Christianity. A Christian can respect a Muslim without
> accepting qurAn. There is no necessity for people to
> accept other's views to respect their views. So is the
> case within the beliefs within Hindus.
>
> We can respect shankara AchArya followers without
> accepting advaita. Respect is two fold, one being mere
> diplomacy wherein one has to just follow some
> protocols to exhibit it; in the latter, one has to
> exhibit a genuine respect for the fellow person deep
> in the heart. As we all know, vaishnavism is all about
> being devoid of duplicity, we do respect people coming
> from all religions and beliefs to the core of our
> hearts; but we do not accept their philosophies unless
> they are in line with Emperumanar's. And if we have
> problem with this, we have to check if we are truly
> believing in Yati rAja.
>
> Here our context is to read the slokas written by non
> SrI- Vaishnavas. Our context is also to check the
> anology shown between established hymns(with
> non-sAmpradAyic commentaries) and the non-sAmpradAyic
> slokas.
>
> 1. `SrI vishNu sahasranAmam has even non SrI
> vaishNavic commentaries, but for that reason, we are
> not discarding it':::: So there is no harm in reading
> to the slokas of AchAryas of other sAmpradAyams.
>
> This argument appears to be substance-less in light of
> the author of this hymn being Sri vEda vyAsa Himself.
> `vyAsAya vishNu rUpAya. vyAsa rUpAya vishNavE'. SrI
> vyAsa dEva Himself has written Lord vishNu's 1000
> names, for which some people have given explanation
> which is not sAmpradAyic. This is akin to, `if some
> one attempts to give an advaitic commentary to AchArya
> rAmAnuja's gadya trayam, we cannot reject gadya trayam
> as advaitic'. Some times, some of the Sri vaishNava
> scriptures are commented by non sAmpradAyic people,
> but their commentaries are invalid, and for that
> account only our AchAryas have given us correct
> commentaries, discarding the wrong ones. If the person
> who attempted to give wrong interpretation of
> rAmAnuja's gadya trayam has also written another set
> of slokas, we cannot argue that because we cannot
> reject gadya trayam, we cannot reject this new set of
> slokas also. This person's wrong connection to
> rAmAnuja doesnot approve his other works, because his
> connection with the rAmAnuja's work itself is invalid.
>
> From this we can safely conclude that, if some one
> composes a work not in line with emperumanar, all his
> other works lose their ground to be acceptable to a
> sri vaishNava. Nevertheless, SrI vaishNavas respect
> all others; although worship theirs own. Please do not
> promote non vaishnavism and duplicity. Respecting
> others doesnot mean accepting others and following
> them.
>
> Then the question remains, ` why do we want to chant
> the slokas written by non sri vaishnavas? Are there no
> sufficient works of Sri vaishNava Acharyas that we
> have to resort to other sAmpradAyas????????'
>
> If we mean to chant the slokas to praise SrImAn
> nArAyaNa, it is best for us to learn the meanings of
> the slokas, because praising SrImAn nArAyaNa cannot be
> mere ritualistic. When one doesnot have the
> possibility to learn the meanings of the slokas, then
> it is atleast better to chant them; in that case, one
> should strictly take the hymns written by SrI
> vaishNava AchAryas if one truly believes in
> sAmpradAya. This is called pAti vratya (chastity
> towards the Master). Let us promote the works of SrI
> AchAryas who are infinitely compassionate and are
> sacrificing everything for the welfare of badha jivAs
> (conditioned beings). We do have innumerable hymns
> from our pUrva AchAryas. Please, let us not go out of
> sAmprAdaya fold and be disloyal to our AchArya
> parampara. Please do not promote wrong meanings to
> secularism. Secularism means `Respect others, worship
> yours'.
>
> dAsOham,
> SrIperumbUdUru vEnkaTa vinOd.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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