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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00101 Oct 2006

 
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Dear Sriman Venkatesh,
Well said. I concur with you totally.
Adiyen,
Dasan,
Ramanujam




----------------------------------------
> To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> From: vinjamoor_venkatesh@xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:58:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam
> 
> srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha
> srImadh varavara munayE namaha
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> For some time now, I have been a passive follower of this list after 
> my initial contributions. But this mail from Smt Charchita, made me 
> think that I have to reply.
> 
> The question posed by Smt Charchita is very correct and straight 
> forward. Instead of giving tangential replies, let us admit that we 
> are discriminating. This is a fact. No amount of examples on the 
> origins of Varnasrama dharma will justify this. 
> 
> Just think about this. How many of us bow our heads and fold our 
> hands, in front of a Non-Brahmin Srivaishnavite (They are called 
> Bhagavathas in ThiruvallikkEni and Kanchipuram) even before they do 
> it to us. I see a very handful of us doing this. 
> 
> Smt Charchita, your question is very correct. I support your views. 
> How many discriminations, in our own Srivaishnava society? Within the 
> Brahmin Srivaishnavas, they say that a particular family is of lower 
> status than another. How absurd? 
> 
> Well just to summarize an answer, we brahmins dont want to let go of 
> their ego. We all talk a lot about Ramanujar holding Pillai 
> Urangaavilli Daasar's hands after bath, Bhattar taking the Sripaadha 
> theertham of a person belonging to a fourth varna, Periya Nambigal 
> doing the anthima samskAram for Vilaanchola Pillai et al. But in 
> reality we don't want to do it. It is nothing but ego. 
> 
> Truly, there are a whole lot of Non-Brahmin Srivaishnavites, who 
> knows the Prabhandams totally compared to a Brahmin Srivaishnavite. 
> But still they will be treated as a low caste fellow. Shame on our 
> ego.
> 
> Instead of taking the meaning of this pAsuram directly, we try to 
> twist it to suit our whims and fancies. It is not only this pAsuram, 
> there are pAsurams from ThirumAlai by Thondaradippodi AzhwAr. They 
> also talk about this in the same vein. 1) "amaravOr angam ARum...." 
> 2) "pazhudilA vozhugalAtRu.." are nothing but a few of such pAsurams.
> 
> I believe, it is high time we let go of our "yAdhAnum paTRi neengum 
> viradham" attitude in this matter and give them the due respect.
> 
> Finally, I can say only one thing. Anybody who discrimates, based on 
> caste, amongst the Srivaishnavas, doesn't have any right to talk 
> about AzhwArs and AcharyAs and hence their work. This is my humble, 
> if not arrogant, opinion.
> 
> AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam
> adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan
> Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh
> 
> 
> --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Ramanujam Varada Srinivasa Thatta" 
> <acharyatvsr@...> wrote:
> >
> > Please do some more deeper study. Vaysyas are Upaveetas and can 
> learn and recite Vedas.
> > Ramanujam.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------
> > > To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > From: epd40@...
> > > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 05:54:06 +0000
> > > Subject: [sri ramanuja] Caste Creed and Varna in Srivaishnavam
> > > 
> > > Dear All,
> > > A subtle thought process in the lineage of a question being 
> raised by
> > > one of my kin. Question pertains to varnasrama in Srivaishnavam.
> > > I had few thoughts with respect to the question. I request our 
> people
> > > to  clarify, correct any mistakes with pramanam for the answers I 
> had
> > > given.
> > > 
> > > Question by my Kin:
> > > 
> > > "The below thing I wrote when I was a part ramanuja.org discussion
> > > list. I didn't get any answer for this. Still I am searching the
> > > answer for this. Do anyone of you have?
> > > 
> > > Respected Sir,
> > > kulanthaangu saathikaL naalilum keezizinthu,
> > > etthanai nalanthaa nilaathasaN daaLasaN daaLarka Laakilum,
> > > valanthaangu sakkarath thaNNal maNivaNNaR kaaLenRuL kalanthaar,
> > > adiyaar thammadi yaarem madikaLE.
> > > If an individual is a devotee of Lord Vishnu, then, even if he 
> belongs
> > > to a lowly caste, you must consider his devotee's devotee as your
> > > lord. I'm quoting this paasuram from tiruvaymoli. I have quoted 
> the
> > > explaination from our own web site www.ramanuja.org.
> > > 
> > > Whatever i understood from the above paasuram according to my
> > > intellect is that if a person is a devotee of shriman naarayan to
> > > whatever castes he/she belongs should be given enough respect. 
> Then
> > > why in our sampradaayam it is so that in the name of achaaram we
> > > discriminate among our own people. Even if they are great 
> devotees of
> > > lord naarayan they are not given enough respect just because they
> > > belong to low caste. I have seen many people who are brahmins and 
> shri
> > > vaishnava but they do not follow any rules and regulations of what
> > > shri vaishnava should follow.But even then they get respect in the
> > > society as well as by high intellectuals since they belong to high
> > > caste. Should it be not like this that the discrimination should 
> be
> > > made only on this basis whether a particular person is a devotee 
> of
> > > shriman naarayan or not rather than caste.Is our sampradaayam
> > > emphasize on casteism. I also felt that casteism is one of the 
> main
> > > reason that our sampradaayam's message is not widely spread. If by
> > > mistake i have written something wrong due to ignorance then i am
> > > extremely sorry for that.
> > > 
> > > with regards
> > > charchita
> > > 
> > > Answer:
> > > Dear Charchita
> > > The message is apt but the concept of varnasrama should or could 
> not
> > > be confused here.
> > > Varnasrama Dictates Rules For
> > > 1) Individual's Work in society
> > >      a) Bhramins - Bhramanosya Mookam aaseeth. Bhramins come from 
> face
> > > of vishnu. Let them be responsible for learning Vedas, chanting 
> it,
> > > and spreading it. By no means they can enter
> > >       i) Trade
> > >       ii) Warfare
> > >       iii) Cultivation or any means of procurement
> > >   b) Kshatriya - Baaho rajanya krutaha: By the muscle power let 
> the
> > > rajans rule the world. They should
> > >      i) Conquer and control teritories
> > >     ii) Learn Vedas and not teach / preach them
> > >     iii) Be the sole properitor of wealthiest items in his 
> teritory
> > >  c) Vaysya - Vaysyo Dhana samridhasyad - Let the merchants trade 
> and
> > > earn money. Let them use thier strength in thighs to travel far 
> off
> > > and bring money.
> > > i) They cannot learn/preach vedas
> > > d) Shudra - Shudra sukam avapnuyaad - Let the fourth caste people 
> do
> > > the job of line men, agriculture, hunting and all work of building
> > > assisting kings in army. Thereby they are not directly 
> responsible for
> > > any decisions but enable decision makers to fulfill the objective 
> of
> > > society. They can
> > > a) Have multiple marriages, have food without bath, can kill 
> animals
> > > and move from places to places.
> > > Now the key point is Narayana bhakta
> > > He who is intrested in bhramagnana is above these 4 castes which 
> come
> > > by birth and has to be respected alteast equivalent to vishnu,
> > > If currently bhramins/ sri vaishanavas are not doing it its 
> solely the
> > > fault of the individuals and not that of the sampradaya
> > > Instances:
> > > Ramanuja before bath used to hold hands of mudaliyandan (Bhramana
> > > sreshta)and later after bath hold the hand of pillai uranga vali 
> dasar
> > > (4th caste person)
> > > Nampillai called one dasar to submit the food he prepared for 
> perumal
> > > fearing the atma guna poorthi of his second wife.
> > > Lot of instances where disciples were of 4th caste but they were
> > > deciding people of sampradaya,
> > > Our great Acharyan Manavala maamunigal got the greatest of 
> rahasya Sri
> > > vachana bushana from the mouth of an acharya called koora 
> kulothama
> > > dasar who by his birth is the care taker of burial ground (Sandala
> > > vargam). Note: Please correct the name of our poorvacharya who 
> did the
> > > kalakshepam of Srivachana bhushanam to maamunigal.
> > > Points:
> > > We have to take sree pada theertham from the lotus feet of any sri
> > > vaishnava of any caste if he shows atma guna poorthi. abiding the
> > > faith on manavala maamunigal and ramanuja if we fail to do so we 
> dont
> > > call ourself sri vaishnava and because of hypocrats pure 
> sampradayam
> > > is getting dis illusioned as the caste oriented system. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam 
> > > http://www.vedics.net
> > > 
> > >  
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam 
> http://www.vedics.net
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 

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