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SriRangaSri List Archive: Message 00088 Aug 2005

 
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Seems to be an emotional outpour from a believer from the other camp.
Sri vaishnavam (of Sri Ramanuja's lineage) does not take buddha as an
avatar. To this extent there is an agreement with the objector.
But many other vaishnava traditions do believe buddha as an avatar of
vishnu. This is just a small concession perhaps to win converts.

In general, there are not that many references to buddha and jinas 
in the puranAs. There are only a few references, and they are 
occasionally quoted to support theories. For example, there is one 
reference on buddha in rAmAyanam, one in Srimad bhagavatam, and a 
few in other places. The reference in ramAyanam seems to be a harsh 
word to JabAli from Sri Rama when the former urges the latter to 
return to Ayodhya. Sri Rama points out the former's arguments are 
avaidikic (against vedam), since he (Sri Rama) is trying to 
illustrate that the word (promise to Kaikeyi) should be kept (satyam 
vada, darmam chara, mAthru devo bhava, pithtu devo bhava.)  The 
quote in Srimad bhAgacatam seems to be out of place but it is taken 
to support that buddha is an avatar of vishnu.  In many other 
places, the strong differences between buddism and vedic sampradAyam 
and peoples' philosophical attitudes in the old days are adumbrated. 
We may take these references to be more as a poetic outpouring 
rather as certain truths.  In general this poetry is very small 
compared to the number of lines of poetry written illustrating 
vishnu tattvam.

On the other hand, buddha is cherished as a nAmA of the Lord even in 
the South Indian vishnu nAmavalis. This indicates an old connection 
between the faiths. 

The central contention with the buddism stems from its denial or
silence on the concept of god and rejection of vedas. Obviously 
people from the vedic camps would take issue with this. It is like
Abrahamic religions trying to say that only they are authentic.
The core principles of god-centric religions are in the vedas, and 
one can logically see a need for god to explain the basic existence 
of everything in the universe. In scientific terms, we have vacuum 
and a lot of matter, and sentient beings on the top of this pyramid.
If one deeply looks at this order, one cannot stop from agreeing with
many passages in the vedam that emphasize the need for god or a 
power identical to It in order explain the origin of everything.
No one 'create' the mass of matter and sentience emerging from it 
without the Divine Will. God is a mathematical singularity that is 
a spring of everything. This singularity is the primordial 
sacrificer extolled in the vedas and worshipped in the AgamAs.
This is a really a beautiful thing in the middle of the universe
and would continue to vex the theologists, agnostics, atheists, and 
scientists for eternity.

dAsan,
RTV Varadarajan 


 



--- In SriRangaSri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, vee tel <v_tel001@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> Buddha was NOT an incarnation of the Lord.
> He was an ordinary person, a prince belonging to the
> Sakhya dynasty, who realized the cause of sorrow in
> the world..i.e. in other words, he was Enlightened.
> 
> Hinduism in medieval India had managed to accumulate
> enough evils, thanks to the priestly class who were
> using their power, and knowledge of the religious
> scriptures, to appropriately distort them, and
> suppress people in the lower strata of the society.
> These evils were Caste System, animal sacrifices,
> Sati..to name a few. In other words...the correct term
> to use for the religion would be 'Brahmanism' not
> 'Hinduism'.
> 
> This situation formed a fertile period for the rise of
> religions like Buddhism and Jainism. These strove to
> remove the strict and illogical rules binding the
> society, remove sorrow, and lead people who were
> 'stuck' with the many meaningless Hindu rituals (which
> they themselves didn't understand) on a correct,
> practical path. Buddha preached in Pali, a language
> the masses could understand. What is the use of
> teaching in Sanksrit when the common man doesnt
> understand it and when you restrict him from learning
> Sanskrit?
> 
> The people in India were immediately attracted to this
> new religion and it became popular. The Brahministic
> Hinduism, immediately seeing a threat to it's status
> and dominance, reacted by proclaiming Buddha as an
> avatar of Vishnu. 
> Yes, the comman man was cheated, because in due
> course, Brahminism managed to wipe out Buddhism from
> it's land of birth.
> 
> As always, we Indians seem to take in the wrong
> things..and that explains the reason for our eternal
> backwardness. Countries like Japan, Korea immediately
> imbibed the good qualities present in Buddha's
> teachings...teachings of goodness to everyone, leading
> a simple and practical life. 
> 
> After reading your article, I have lost whatever
> respect I had for the ancient people who wrote the
> treatises you mentioned.
> 
> vtel
> 
> 
> --- champakam <champakam@xxxx> wrote:
> 
> > There has been some discussion about whether Buddha
> > is an incarnation 
> > of the Lord.  SrI ParASara BhaTTar interprets the
> > nAma-s 787 to 810 
> > in terms of the Buddha incarnation.  According to
> > this 
> > interpretation, the Buddha incarnation was a kapaTa
> > avatAram that was 
> > meant to mislead those who do not deserve to reach
> > Him in this birth 
> > because of their bad deeds, and it is a form of
> > punishment metted out 
> > to these folks by the Lord, namely to mislead them
> > from the path that 
> > will lead them to Him.  SrI V. V. Ramanujan refers
> > to the AzhvAr 
> > pASuram "kaLLa vEDattaik koNDu pOyp puram pukkavARum
> > kalandu aSurarai 
> > uLLam bedam SeiddiTTu uyir uNDa upAya'ngaL".  The
> > Buddha incarnation 
> > is not one of the incarnations that we worship.  
> > 
> > The detailed write-up of SrI BhaTTar's
> > interpretation for the nAma-s 
> > from SrI vishNu sahasra nAma for this segment can be
> > found in the 
> > postings on SrI vishNu sahasra nAmam.  It should be
> > clearly 
> > understood that this incrnation is NOT for worship
> > by us, but for the 
> > sole purpose of BhagavAn misleading those whom He
> > does not wish to 
> > bless with the right path in this birth.  A vague
> > example to 
> > illustrate the concept of kapaTa avatAram is the
> > Mohini avatAram that 
> > the Lord took for the sole purpose of deceiving the
> > demons.  
> > 
> > There is a reference to Buddha and Buddha matham in
> > SrImad rAmAyaNa, 
> > ayodhyA kANDa 109.35 - yathA hi coraH sa tathA hi
> > buddhaH... (rAma 
> > addresses jAbAli and refers to buddha as a cheat and
> > the buddha 
> > matham as a non-vedic religion).  Thus, there is a
> > reference to 
> > buddha and the buddhist religion even in rAmAyaNa,
> > and so the 
> > reference to buddha in SrI vishNu sahasra nAmam may
> > not be to the 
> > buddha that lived in our times.  
> > 
> > SrI v.n. vedAnta deSikan notes that there is a lot
> > of difference in 
> > interpretation of nammAzhvAr's pASuram in this
> > context, and he deems 
> > it fit to leave the discussion at a superficial
> > level for AzhvAr's 
> > pASuram.  The same approach seems relevant for the
> > issue at hand, 
> > except to state that there was an incarnation of the
> > Lord that taught 
> > the Buddhist religion for the purpose of misleading
> > those with 
> > demonic qualities or Asuric tendencies.  
> > 
> > -dAsan kRshNamAcAryan  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>                                          
> 
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> 
> 
> Send instant messages to your online friends 
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com








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