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JAI RAMANUJA,
PATANJALI'S sutras do talk about of GOD in the sutra ISHVARA PRANIDHANAAT(SURRENDER TO LORD).
DASAN

On Wed, 14 May 2003 s.ramachandran@xxxx wrote :





Respected devoutees:


One is really surprised. This is indeed news. Maybe the writer has missed
this somewhere, but can you please give

precise details as to where, in which text or discussion etc. the Patanjali
Sutras have been condemned ?

The query of the writer assumes significance more so because Patanjali is
none other than the incarnation of

Adi Seshan and was expressly designated by Maha Vishnu HIMSELF to go down
to the earth to relieve mankind's woes by :

a. teaching grammer / proper speech

b. teach medicine for health/healing - ayurveda

c. teach Yoga for the mind

Yoga existed much much before Patanjali except that HE came down and formally codified it in the form of Sutras for future generations to
follow.

It is possible Sankya could have been refuted but this too would be more in the nature of scholarly discourse rather than an outright rejection of a system. Both Sankya and Yoga, which is derived from Sankya do not talk of
GOD as such and also do not name any diety, person,entity.

Om Tat Sat
Tat tvam asi









Vasudevan VK
<vasuchak@yahoo. To: s.ramachandran@xxxx, Ashok Krishnamurthy com> <akrishna_24@xxxx> cc: Srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 05/14/03 11:10 Subject: Re: [SriRangaSri] An Inquiry into some fundamental AM truths of Sanaathana Dharma







Shrimathey Nigamaantha Maha Deshikaaya Namaha
Dear Bhagavatas,
Pl. correct me if I am wrong but I think that Swami Desika has condemned the Sankhya philosophy as well as Patanjali. Any views on this would be
appreciated.
Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan.

s.ramachandran@xxxx wrote:



One would strongly recommend, if at all you are absolutely serious about
this whole business,
you should do some preliminary reading of the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.

The Great author could have an answer to some if not all of your doubts/queries.  To give a glimpse: Most of us - 99.99% of mortals lead a
casual, thougtless living and we call this life etc.

There are few exceptions - the balance 0.01% - who apart from Bhakti, intense interest and devoution and more importantly, sustained long term practice of some of the Yogic principles  come to stage where they are
poised for self-enquiry.

Critical to the part of the sustained long term practice is :Pranayama which is a bridge between the outer and inner or (Antaranga) Yoga. The
deeper areas of Yoga are Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana.

As one becomes proficient in Pranayama, one slowly starts discriminating
i.e. called Viveka Khyati.

Please do not ask discriminate what/when/who? but it is simply discriminate what is and what is not. In most of these cases, at this stage most of the issues/questions/doubts you have raised will get perhaps resolved in such a
manner that the question/doubt itself might seem irrelevant.

The extraordinary Patanjli has very very scientifically and logically laid down the entire picture devoid of subjective references.  Nothing
mysterious.

If you are more serious, maybe you should go through Iswarakrishna's Sankya Karika which is the Sankhya philosophy which forms the basis for the Yoga
Sutras.

The key to getting appropriate answers to your questions/doubts is : Action.  Your daily life has to be critically reviewed by you constantly. You have to be vigilant always.  Each smallest act, talk, thought has to be evaluated to ensure that they are compliant with the strict standards of
Yama, Niyama and so on.

Does this mean the writer is confirming that all answers can be found in the books/texts/works of Patanjli and Samkya Karika? No.  The preliminary reading will perhaps serve as a guidepost. You have to put things in
practice without expecting any results and wait and watch

The only other alternative you have is the path of faith, which also
incidentally is covered grandly by the Yoga Sutras.
The topic of karma, re-birth etc. are all dealt and tied up logically in
the Sutras.

As regards your primary query :why should you not steal, do bad things etc. is it a enquiry or are you seeking permission from these fora?  All one can say in keeping with the sacred Sayings of the great Patanjali Sutras
"follow the Guru" (your acharaya).

If HE asks you to steal, please go ahead.

Lastly, one humble request. Pardon this writer, if he has misunderstood. But one hopes you are doing the Nitya Karma without let? If yes you are at least eligible to harbour such doubts/questions as above, if not your questions/doubts are mere intellectual churnings of a mind filled with
limited knowledge. No hurt or insult intended honestly

Om tat Sat
Tat tvam asi





Ashok

                      Krishnamurthy            To:
Srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
                      <akrishna_24@yah
Oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
                      oo.com>
cc:
                                               Subject: [SriRangaSri] An
Inquiry into some fundamental
                      05/11/03 11:01           truths of Sanaathana
Dharma

AM





adiYen would like to share some thoughts with all
regarding two fundamental pillars of our religion [our
religion has been dubbed as "Hinduism" but truly
should be called Sanaathana Dharma (Eternal
religion)].

adiYen would like to pose to adiYen a question:

Question:
--------
Why should adiYen do good, be good (exhibit kindness,
charity, etc.) and not commit sin (like not killing
others, stealing, etc.)?

Answer:
------
Our Aachaaryaas repeatedly stress the following two
tenets of Sanaathana Dharma:

1.  Law of Karma - "what goes around comes around"
2.  Rebirth      - "life after death of the body, and
reincarnation of the Jeevaathma or soul"

Either: (i) adiYen should believe in the above two
pillars of Sanaathana Dharma implicitly, without any
reservations or doubts whatsoever - because adiYen's
Aachaaryaas have said so (a course of action that
adiYen finds to be the easiest of all) - this may be
called the Path of Faith

    OR

(ii) adiYen should find out if the above two are true
by adiYen's own efforts and analysis - this may be
called the Path of Self Inquiry

There cannot be a third alternative - either adiYen
believes without question, or adiYen is prepared to
undertake efforts to verify the veracity of the two
cornerstones of Sanaathana Dharma.

Path of Faith:
=============
adiYen lives by faith day in and day out:
(i)  when adiYen goes to sleep at night, the faith is
that adiYen will wake up the next morning
(ii) when adiYen takes to the road, the faith is that
adiYen will not be targeted by any other motorist and
killed
(iii) when adiYen travels in a taxi, ship, train, or
aeroplane, adiYen trusts the drivers/pilots
implicitly, and believes that these strangers, some of
whom adiYen will sometimes not even see (in a plane,
for example) will safely pilot adiYen to adiYen's
destination
(iv) when adiYen has to see a medical doctor, adiYen
trusts the doctor implicitly to cure (and not
exacerbate) adiYen's illness

And so on.  Hence adiYen finds that the Path of Faith
is the easiest of all.

Assumption in the Path of Faith:
-------------------------------
The caveat for the Path of Faith is:

One should believe in our true well-wishers - like our
Aachaaryaas, and not in "godmen" and other charlatans
who offer temporary relief, and long-term suffering.
Where spirituality is concerned, adiYen feels that one
should opt for strategic initiatives in preference to
tactical options.

Path of Self Inquiry:
====================

This Path is strenuous - involves arduous efforts, has
many pitfalls, and may not be suitable for all.

Examination of the tenet of Rebirth:
-----------------------------------

In the Path of Self Inquiry, if adiYen had to verify
the Rebirth principle, adiYen could approach it in the
following way:

If adiYen could somehow dissociate or separate
adiYen's essence (Sookshma Shareera) from adiYen's
gross body (Sthoola Shareera), then adiYen would know
for CERTAIN that adiYen would continue to exist, even
after adiYen's gross body perished - this would
naturally lead to the conclusion that if adiYen could
occupy adiYen's gross body in this birth, then later
on, adiYen could occupy another gross body - and thus
the principle of Rebirth would be verified.

The experience noted in the above paragraph is what
some would call an out-of-body travel experience.  It
is said that the Great Aadi Shankaraachaarya left his
body in the safe-keeping of his Shishyaas, and
occupied the body of a king to experience (Kooduvittu
KoodupAidhal), by proxy, Grihasthaashrama.

Out-of-body travel also leads to other conclusions by
extension such as: till the "spirit" (one's essence)
occupies another body, it lives in a "spirit-world";
there are embodied and disembodied spirits - meaning
that we are embodied spirits, and other disembodied
spirits could try to enter our body and take control,
just as we entered this current body of ours; there
are good and bad spirits, etc.

The dangers associated with out-of-body travel (as
outlined by some Experts) are:

(i)  One could misuse the gift and invite serious
trouble - it could completely take one off the Path,
and onto a dangerous sidetrack of pain and suffering
(ii) When traveling out-of-body, before one comes back
to one's current body, evil spirits could enter one's
current body
(iii)If not well-versed in out-of-body travel, one may
not be able to come back and occupy one's current body
at all.

All said and done, if one does have an out-of-body
experience, one need not fear death, because one would
know for CERTAIN that what dies is the body, and not
the self (Jeevaathma) - we need to realize the truth
of the Rebirth principle and lose our fear of death,
either by direct experience, or by complete Faith in
our Aachaaryaas.

Examination of the tenet of Law of Karma:
----------------------------------------

In the Path of Self Inquiry, the Law of Karma may be
verified either by direct experience or by inference.

For direct experience, one should develop the power of
intuition (subtle levels of thinking, feeling and
knowing) to be able to link causes and effects in
one's own life - the learned say that meditation of
the right kind will help in this regard.  Pitfalls
include pseudo-intuition, sophistical reasoning, etc.

The Path of Self Inquiry is thus dangerous for most
people, the Experts say, because most people do not
qualify themselves BEFORE treading this Path.
Qualification would include things like Yama, Niyama,
Shamam, Dhamam, celibacy, etc.

For verification of the Law of Karma by inference one
simply has to correlate causes and effects in the
lives of other people.  For example:

(i)  Jesus Christ/Adolf Hitler (cause and effect)
(ii) Vaali in the Raamaayana (cause) and the hunter
who shot an arrow at Lord Krishna towards the end of
the Dwaapara Yuga (effect)
(iii)Parikshith insulting a Rishi (cause) and his
death after a week (effect)
(iv) Mother Seetha insulting LakshmaNa and disobeying
his requests not to cross the lines he had drawn on
the ground (cause) and Her abduction by RaavaNa and
subsequent Agni Pariksha (effect)

And so on.

------------------------------------------

adiYen,

Ashok K

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