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SrIman! SrI Ranga Sriyam anubadravam anudhinam samvardhaya/ 
SrIman! SrI Ranga Sriyam anubadravam anudhinam samvardhaya//
KAvEri VardhathAm kAlE, kAlE varshathu vAsava:/ 
SrI RanganAthO jayathu SrI Ranga SrIs cha VardhathAm// 
=====================================================
SRI RANGA SRI VOL. I / 024 DATED 3rd March 2001 
===================================================== 
EDITORIAL: 
We are glad to present the 24th Issue of "Sri Ranga Sri" 
In this issue, we present Part 6 of "Greatness Of Bhagavad Ramanuja 
Darsanam" dealing with "Other Differences"
===================================================== 
[Please read the note and request given while introducing the series.
If anything has been expressed forcefully it is only to bring home 
the point more graphically and is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings]
Dasoham
Anbil Ramaswamy 
==========================================
Greatness of Bhagavad RamAnuja Darsanam (GRD 6)
(Other Differences)
=========================================-
SECTION 3D: "TRANSITORINESS "
SECTION 3E: " TRUTH EMERGES FROM UNTRUTH"
SECTION 3F: ARE DREAMS REAL?
SECTION 3G: "LIBERATION THROUGH KNOWLEDGE." And
SECTION 3H: "JEEVAN MUKTI"
(LIBERATION WHILE LIVING IN THE PHYSICAL BODY)
================================================
SECTION 3(D) TRANSITORINESS
====================================================
The Advaitins hold that other than Brahman, all else is
impermanent. Hence, not real. A mud pot when broken is no more called 
a mud pot. It WAS, but IS NOT. Hence, its existence cannot be termed 
as real. Whatever is inconstant is not real.
Comments:
(i) This is a much more vulnerable argument than any advanced earlier.
*To be transitory is not to be illusory. Everything in the world is 
real and not chimerical; factual and not
Fatuous.

(ii) By this argument, Nirvisesha Advaita could label even the Vedas 
themselves to be illusory since the Vedas are said to disappear at 
the time of PraLaya, only to be brought back by Brahman at the 
beginning of the next Kalpa.

This would be a blatant repudiation of the Vedas whereby even the 
SAmAnya Dharmas (ordinary duties) prescribed therein would not have 
to be observed. 

One will have no duties to perform and the non-performance will not 
result in any harm.

(iii) When everything is unreal, no teacher could be real and no 
pupil either. As both of them are unreal, any instruction supposed to 
be transmitted from teacher to pupil would also be unreal.

*The AchArya who believes his Sishya to be false cannot impart any 
knowledge nor can a Sishya believing his AchArya to be false can 
imbibe any knowledge. 

Where is the link between the teacher and the taught, when neither of 
them is real? *

(iv) The very proposition that Brahman is shadowed by nescience is 
wholly repugnant to the very nature of Brahman - the one destroyer of 
all obscurations and shadowing.

*Such a proposition is not conducive to a Sense -illumination but 
only in Sense-obscuration and Sense-Vacuation* says Kesava Iyengar

(v) When ChAndOkya Upanishad says that there is one without a second, 
it does not mean the world is unreal.
*ParamAtma and JeevAtma are real.
The world is real.
Vedas are real.
And all of them are ETERNALLY real. *
' He is without equal' means that there is none superior to him. When 
someone says 'Arjuna is the real archer' it does not mean other 
archers are not real; it only means that they are no match to Arjuna 
in his skills of archery.
===================================================
SECTION 3 (E) " TRUTH EMERGES FROM UNTRUTH"
==================================================
The Advaitins talk of truth emerging from untruth - "Asatyaath Satya 
Siddhi". The untrue silver appears as true shell; from the untrue 
serpent appears the true rope.

COMMENT OF OTHER SCHOOLS:
The answer of other schools is that so long as the silver
generates joy and the serpent produces fear - they should be 
considered real. When the Vedas say " There was neither Sat nor Asat"-
it refers to the stage of deluge. By this, it cannot be concluded 
that the very Brahman was neither Sat nor Asat.

Prof. Narayanachariar:
"As per the Advaitins, if the mumukshu does not know untruth also, it 
is necessary to teach him first that untruth and then make him give 
it up for a higher truth!"

Bhagavad RamAnuja says - 'Sruti is more kind to her followers than a 
1000 parents together -"MAthA pithr sahasEbhyOpi vatsalathara: 
Sruti"(Gita BAshyam II-44)

Why should such Sruti teach falsehood, only to be abandoned and 
prosecuted and even mislead innocent novices?"

Prof. Narayanachariar-
Now, let us see what "Sathya" means.
Referring to the etymology of the word Satya, Bhagavad RamAnuja says 
in Vedartha Sangraha, quoting Taittriya Upanishad II-6 and 
BrihadAraNyaka Upanishad III-9-9
Satya is a compound of Sat + Tyat which means-
*That which is HERE NOW + that which WAS THERE THEN". In other words, 
that truth or reality as (Satyam) is what we comprehend when 
the 'disembodied' and 'embodied' forms of God are put together"*
===============================================
SECTION 3 (F) ARE DREAMS REAL?
===============================================
*BrihadAranyaka Upanishad categorically declares that dreams are real 
and are created by God*

(i) The question arises how can we conclude that they are created by 
God? And, why not say that the JeevAtma itself could create the 
dreams?

The answer is, for one thing- the JeevAtma has no power of
creation. For another, if it had the power, it will not create 
unpleasant dreams for itself. We see tigers, fire, flood etc., in 
which the dreamer appears as a victim. No body would indulge in 
creating even in a dream such self- threatening, self- destructive 
and unpleasant experiences to one's self.

Prof. Narayanachariar explains the meaning of the word "Swapiti" the 
state of dreaming or deep sleep by etymology means "returns to one's 
self (i.e.) to God as the Innermost dweller". Thus, the dreams in the 
dream state and the state of deep sleep are in the realm of ParamAtma 
and not of the JeevAtma"

(ii) The dreams are real so far as the person who dreams is concerned 
and real so long as the duration of the dream. That the objects in 
the dream vanish when the person wakes up underlines the temporary-
ness of the objects and *not that the experience itself was unreal. 
The joy, the fear, the thrill, the excitement are all real for the 
person dreaming who may even be able to remember and relate them 
subsequently.

(iii) Why should God create dreams at all is the next question.
The answer is- The JeevAtma does some small good deeds and
some small bad ones. They are not big enough or significant
enough to attract a palpable reward or a palpable punishment. God 
gives the JeevAtma a little pleasure through pleasant experiences in 
the dreams so that he is happy for the duration of the dream enjoying 
pleasant things; Similarly, for the small bad ones that are not 
significant enough, a mild punishment is imposed by the
Lord by making the JeevAtma feel the pain by dreaming unpleasant 
things and unpleasant experiences for the duration of the dreams.

(iv) Another question raised by Sri Chandrasekaran is that because 
sometimes dreams follow certain experiences in real life, may be as a 
consequence and continuation thereof, can it not be inferred that it 
is the jeeva through such experiences, actually creates the dream 
scenes. The answer is that that it is God who uses these impressions 
as raw materials to spin the dreams for the Jeeva to experience.

(v) Another question by Sri Chandrasekaran is that children do not 
have dreams. This is not proved by Science or experience. On the 
other hand, it used to be said that the Lord shows flowers to make 
them smile happily and takes away the show of flowers when they start 
crying on missing something. Thus, even babies do experience pleasant 
and unpleasant moments, may be due to small good or bad deeds done by 
them in their earlier lives.
============================================== 
SECTION 3 (G) LIBERATION THROUGH KNOWLEDGE.
====================================================
The Advaitins hold that once the Jeeva acquires the knowledge of its 
identity with the ParamAtma, it acquires liberation.

Comment of Other Schools:
The other schools do not accept this because mere knowledge is not 
enough. 
-       Merely knowing that hunger will be abated by food,
-       Merely knowing that thirst will be quenched by drinking water,
-       Merely knowing that ailments can be cured by medication
Cannot entail the relevant results unless action is taken to 
actually consume the food, drink or medicine respectively.
-       A mere knowledge of the route cannot take one to the 
destination unless one actually travels towards the destination.
Knowledge is, of course, necessary as a motivating force for 
performing appropriate action of say, Karma yoga, Bhakti yoga or 
Prapatti as the case may be, which would qualify one for liberation

Prof. Narayanachariar argues-
"The knowledge of a new city one has "not actually visited", can be 
first gained through a guidebook or a map, for the exact location of 
a building or a street and on that basis when we actually visit that 
city the "experience" now gained is not cancellatory of the former 
but confirmatory only.

Similarly, the photograph of a living person, which we first see, and 
then the person himself - the two experiences are corroborative and 
not contradictory.

Thus for Bhagavad RamAnuja, the Paravidyas constitute a direct means 
to God-vision as understood by Veda VyAsa and his venerable father 
ParAsara. The knowledge per se does NOT lead to mOksha but opens up a 
means to be adopted for attaining mOksha"

Talking about 'Knowledge', Brahma Sutram starts with the opening 
sentence thus:-
" Om atha atah brahma jignasaa" -
"Hereafter, Therefore, the desire to know Brahman".

In this Sutra, we have
FIRST, the Brahman whose knowledge is desired;
SECONDLY, we have the desire to know (Jignasa).
THIDLY, We have the desire to know Brahman as a 'sequence'
(Atha) and as a consequence (Atah) of an antecedent occurrence.

All the following quotes are from Sri R. Kesava Iyengar's foreword 
to "SathadooshaNi" by Sri Srivatsankachariar Swami.

*This opening sentence, according to Sri Vedanta Desika is 
incompatible with the system of both Nirvisesha' and 'Advaita'- 
because the entity desiring to know is unreal and non-existent as per 
the Nirvisesha Advaitins*

*There is nothing with reference to which there can be sense-
signification for there is no sense to be signified at all*

As Swami Desika puts it.
*If the word signifies 'sense' 'Nirvisesha' is gone;
If it does not, 'Brahman' is gone-like the birth of a grandchild to a 
barren woman*

*First, a Nirvisesha Brahman is incapable of being an object of 
knowledge ... *

*Secondly, there can be no 'desire to know'. Unless there is 
something in Brahman which it is desirable to know. There can be no 
desire to know a bare being Brahman in all its emptiness of husk and 
in all jejuneness of vacuity.

*Unless there is something inherent in and characteristic of Brahman 
which can kindle desire in the knower, no desire to know Brahman can 
at all originate" ... When the knower is an illusion like a burnt 
cloth to use a metaphor of the Advaitins -'dagda paTa'*

*There is no knower, and there can be no knowledge.
Without a knower to know and an object to be known, all talk of 
knowledge leading to liberation can only be trick of duplicity and 
not a fact of experience*(Kesava Iyengar p.50 ibid)

*It is not correct to say that Knowledge of oneness of 'ParamAtma 
and JeevAtma is mOksha ' and the knowledge of differentiation between 
them is "SamsAra*

*The person who has no belief in the liberating knowledge provided by 
the Vedas, the knower, the one who bestows knowledge (i.e.) the 
Saastras that is the source of knowledge that dispels ignorance-
*If all these are false, how can one talk about 'desire for 
knowledge' or the 'efficacy of instruction' (UpadEsa)? *

*Verbal knowledge is per se unfruitful. It has to be experienced by 
the hearer. The verbal knowledge that mango is sweet, however valid 
and authentic, remains per se unfruitful to the hearer until he 
tastes it himself*

"When a tiger cub, which lived with a flock of sheep was reminded 
that it was indeed a tiger cub and not sheep, by practically 
demonstrating its feeding on a bloody carcass.

*To say that he 'knew' he was a tiger would be weak indeed. He now' 
was' a tiger"(Troy Wilson Organ, p.33)

Prof. Narayanachariar adds:
*" The 'atha' preceding the AadEsa (the instruction) and the 'atah' 
(therefore) further making the transmission of meaning continuous and 
smooth and not indicating a contrary message of contrast, in which 
case, the connectives would be "Thu" (but or on the contrary). The 
AadEsa follows as a 'Corollary' and not emerges 
as 'disrupting', 'devastating' conclusion to the contrary"*
====================================================
SECTION 3 (H) JEEVAN MUKTI
(LIBERATION WHILE LIVING IN THE PHYSICAL BODY)
===================================================
The Advaitins hold that it is possible for the individual soul to 
attain liberation while still living in the phenomenal world with the 
gross body - if it realizes its unity with Brahman since realization 
(or knowledge) is enough to secure liberation. Several examples are 
cited to illustrate how the body continues even after one attains 
what they call ' Jeevan Mukti'

(i) When once a wheel is turned around, even when we take off our 
hand, it continues to revolve due to the momentum gained while it was 
turned around.

(ii) When a vehicle moves fast, even when the brake is applied, it 
screeches to a halt only after traversing at least a short distance 
from the point where the brake is applied.

(iii) In Viveka ChooDAmaNi, Adhi Sankara compares the body of a 
Jeevan mukta to the dry leaves clinging to the branches of a tree 
during the fall season or a cucumber fruit that had over- ripened 
clinging to the branch of the tree before finally falling down.

Advaitins call this 'Cucumber liberation'.

COMMENT OF OTHER SCHOOLS:
The other schools do not accept this 'Jeevan Mukti'.
They hold that liberation can be attained only on the fall of the 
body. This is called ' Videha Mukti'- 'Out of body liberation'-which 
can arise only on death. This is because, as Visishtadvaita holds, on 
performance of Prapatti, all sins are extinguished except that 
portion of PrArabda karma which the ' Dripta' Prapanna has agreed to 
experience till the time comes for the fall of his body in the normal 
course.

And, the very existence of the body is a result of such karma and is 
required for experiencing the results of such karma. Only at the time 
of death, there will be a nil balance of Karma thus entitling the 
Prapanna to MOksha.

Here is an excerpt from Satapata Brahmana of Yajurveda
As translated by Sir Monier Williams and quoted by Gerber (p.3) which 
would show that the 'Jeevan Mukti' concept is not valid and 
only 'Videha Mukti' is acknowledged in the Vedas. -

" The Gods lived constantly in dread of death-
The mighty Ender - So, with toilsome rites
They worshipped and performed religious acts
Till they became immortal;
Then, the Ender said to the Gods-
"As you have made yourselves
Imperishable, so will men endeavor
To free themselves from me;
What portion then shall I possess in man?'
The Gods replied-
'Henceforth no being shall become immortal
In his own body; this his mortal frame
Shall thou still seize?
This shall remain thine own -
He who through Knowledge or religious works
Henceforth attains to immortality
Shall first present his body, Death, to thee"'

The Advaitins call this ' Krama Mukti' open to those souls that have 
not realized their identity with the ParamAtma.
====================================================
GRD 7: SECTION 4: COMMON GROUNDS AS BETWEEN
ADVAITA, DVAITA AND VISISHTADVAITA will follow
====================================================







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