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by Daniel Semler
August 2nd, 2021, 12:19 am
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

Daniel can you do a search for επιστηκα on Accordance? And perhaps Jonathan Robie can do one on Perseus. I can’t seem to figure out how…maybe it’s because I use my iPhone exclusively. επιστηκα does not appear in the Accordance modules I have. I could not find in via Scaife viewer on Perseus either....
by Daniel Semler
August 1st, 2021, 7:21 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

We have to compare this passage with aorist infinitive - which we know to be referring to a past event - combined with πρὶν or προ του. Is a present tense main verb ever used with that construction (well, other than the mentioned Psalm)? I stumbled across this example from Jeremiah, by way of Athan...
by Daniel Semler
August 1st, 2021, 6:07 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

The πρίν clause is normal, it means "before", the infinitive + accusative is part of the πρίν construction. This is covered in the "Temporal Clauses" chapter in "The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek". When the matrix clause is affirmative (not-negative), πρίν is no...
by Daniel Semler
August 1st, 2021, 5:43 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

πρὸ τοῦ ὑμᾶς αἰτῆσαι αἰτῆσαι clearly doesn't refer to past time exclusively, it's generic. Every time we ask, the Father knows it beforehand. Therefore it's not a parallel. True here, but why is that ? In isolation the two infinitive clauses don't look too different. So is that coming from the perf...
by Daniel Semler
August 1st, 2021, 1:54 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

Actually, I think Scott is pointing at something important. The normal thing you would expect is that an aorist infinitive γενέσθαι indicates something that happened before the corresponding main verb εἰμί. But πρὶν conflicts with the normal way of reading, it's very marked. If we detach an infinit...
by Daniel Semler
July 31st, 2021, 12:27 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

the aspect of the infinitive follows essentially the same rule as participles -- an aorist infinitive would then show action prior to that of the main verb. This is practically how everyone since ancient times has understood it I don't quite follow your flow of thought here. The time of Abraham's b...
by Daniel Semler
July 31st, 2021, 12:22 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

I think the syntax is fairly straightforward here. I think the syntax, grammar and semantics of the πριν clause are straightforward. But the grammar of the present tense of the main verb in this context isn't. Nobody has yet given me examples where an expression which limits the time we are talking...
by Daniel Semler
July 30th, 2021, 11:09 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

One question I’m asking is if ἐγώ εἰμι at 8:58 should be understood as implying an unexpressed predicate (say Christ) can the now linking verb still be the controlling verb for the infinitive and can the infinitive modify the controlling verb? I don't see a problem there, but maybe someone does ......
by Daniel Semler
July 30th, 2021, 9:29 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

Here are Wallace’s comments on the Infinitive of Time which accords with my thought that the infinitive gets its time from its controlling verb: 596] 3. Subsequent (πρὸ τοῦ, πρίν, or πρὶν ἤ + infinitive) [before . . .] The action of the infinitive of subsequent time occurs after the action of the c...
by Daniel Semler
July 30th, 2021, 7:48 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 101
Views: 1345

Re: John 8:58

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί. (John 8:58 GNT28-T) I would say πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι is a subordinate clause acting as an adverb of time modifying the main verb εἰμί. At the same time εἰμί is giving γενέσθαι its time. Is that an accurate analysis so far? πρὶ...

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