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by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 7:04 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Stephen did say that the question Jesus was responding to wasn’t the one closest in context (how old are you?) but rather Who are you. I’ve had enough. Can you stop claiming I said things I did not say? And, no, I don’t want you to quote something yet again you did not understand. Ok…even though I ...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 5:53 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Eeli, Stephen did say that the question Jesus was responding to wasn’t the one closest in context (how old are you?) but rather Who are you. That being so he had to see εγω ειμι as self identification. That can only mean that εγω ειμι is a name and has no syntactical relationship to the dependent ad...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 5:44 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Eeli,

I wasn’t trying to resolve the issue by having Stephen translate it I was trying to understand his view of the syntax by making him translate it. He didn’t do so but pointed me to the “standard” translations which opened him up to being misunderstood.
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 5:27 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Eeli, My line of reasoning has been this: 1.) A dependent adverbial clause has to modify a verb. And it has to have it’s sense completed by it’s main clause. 2.) Infinitives, like participles, have controlling verbs which sets their relative time. So what is the controlling verb of the infinitive he...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 5:11 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Stephen you said this: “I don't have a problem with the standard translations. My "grammatical" point is that that the clash in reference times is not to be resolved grammatically, because the grammar doesn't license a particular way to resolve the clash. The participants have to bring in ...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 5:00 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

And Stephen you responded with an objection to my translation of εγω ειμι with the Eternal but you didn’t take objection to the construction of the sentence which has before Abraham came to be standing alone with no connection to The Eternal. So I rightly took your objection to mean that εγω ειμι th...
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 4:45 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Stephen,
Answer my question. Is πριν Αβρααμ γενεσθαι a dependent adverbial clause? And if it is what is the verb that it is modifying?
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 4:38 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Ok…then what is it? I asked you for a translation and you pointed me to the standard translations.
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 4:11 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

That’s good to hear! Somehow I’ve evidently muddled up my point. But your comments are what I’ve been saying all along.
by Scott Lawson
August 4th, 2021, 3:57 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: John 8:58
Replies: 137
Views: 1784

Re: John 8:58

Eeli, If I’m being dumb about my view of the infinitive and its controlling verb then so is Barry. What he said is exactly the point I’ve been making. Barry said: “I see this migrated over from the Facebook discussion. I'm still stuck on πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι. πρίν is really the key word here, before...

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