Search found 158 matches

by Alan Patterson
October 24th, 2012, 7:14 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?
Replies: 30
Views: 8797

Re: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?

Stephen, Here is the Matt 3 15 ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν πρὸς αὐτόν, Ἄφες ἄρτι, οὕτως γὰρ πρέπον ἐστὶν ἡμῖν πληρῶσαι πᾶσαν δικαιοσύνην. τότε ἀφίησιν αὐτόν . 16 βαπτισθεὶς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εὐθὺς ἀνέβη ἀπὸ τοῦ ὕδατος τότε ἀφίησιν αὐτόν τότε adv. then, at that time... What happens after their discussion....
by Alan Patterson
October 23rd, 2012, 6:16 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Mark 14:60 καταμαρτυροῦσιν - past-referring present?
Replies: 23
Views: 3880

Re: Mark 14:60 καταμαρτυροῦσιν - past-referring present?

Hi Alan, if I understand you correctly (and I'm not sure I do), I'm asking about καταμαρτυροῦσιν, not λέγων.


Stephen, yes, καταμαρτυροῦσιν is what I was responding to. λέγων would equal quotation marks.
by Alan Patterson
October 22nd, 2012, 7:29 am
Forum: Other Greek Texts
Topic: Accents and other synthetic markings
Replies: 2
Views: 1568

Re: Accents and other synthetic markings

The earliest manuscripts lacked accents, spacing, and punctuation, though the bulk of NT manuscripts in the Byzantine era included them. Accents are a Greek phenomenon devised by Greeks for Greeks. If you're a paleographer, a papyrologist, or a textual critic, of course, one has to be able to read ...
by Alan Patterson
October 22nd, 2012, 7:14 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Mark 14:60 καταμαρτυροῦσιν - past-referring present?
Replies: 23
Views: 3880

Re: Mark 14:60 καταμαρτυροῦσιν - past-referring present?

Mark 14:60 καὶ ἀναστὰς ὁ ἀρχιερεὺς εἰς μέσον ἐπηρώτησεν τὸν Ἰησοῦν λέγων · οὐκ ἀποκρίνῃ οὐδὲν τί οὗτοί σου καταμαρτυροῦσιν; Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is it that they testify against you?” (NRSV) No past-referring Present Tense here in some ...
by Alan Patterson
October 22nd, 2012, 6:54 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?
Replies: 30
Views: 8797

Re: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?

Sorry for getting back so late. I'm having a hard time explaining the DC to you, I think, because when you read DC, you think of the writer presenting some narrative and the times/tenses are in relationship to the writer. And I'm saying that a writer embeds huge chunks of events WITHIN their own tim...
by Alan Patterson
October 21st, 2012, 1:00 pm
Forum: Other Greek Texts
Topic: Accents and other synthetic markings
Replies: 2
Views: 1568

Accents and other synthetic markings

I just read a concern that a poster did not use accents when cut and pasting the text under consideration. I disagreed with those who mentioned it. What can happen with regard to the use of accents, punctuation, and anything beyond the letters of the text, is to forget that these synthetic marks can...
by Alan Patterson
October 18th, 2012, 7:29 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Mark 14:60 καταμαρτυροῦσιν - past-referring present?
Replies: 23
Views: 3880

Re: Mark 14:60 καταμαρτυροῦσιν - past-referring present?

57 καί τινες ἀναστάντες ἐψευδομαρτύρουν κατ' αὐτοῦ λέγοντες 58 ὅτι Ἡμεῖς ἠκούσαμεν αὐτοῦ λέγοντος ὅτι Ἐγὼ καταλύσω τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον τὸν χειροποίητον καὶ διὰ τριῶν ἡμερῶν ἄλλον ἀχειροποίητον οἰκοδομήσω: 59 καὶ οὐδὲ οὕτως ἴση ἦν ἡ μαρτυρία αὐτῶν. 60 καὶ ἀναστὰς ὁ ἀρχιερεὺς εἰς μέσον ἐπηρώτησεν τὸν Ἰησ...
by Alan Patterson
October 11th, 2012, 7:36 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?
Replies: 30
Views: 8797

Re: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?

Mike, You asked, Beyond that, do you have any evidence for the idea that the deictic center is not the speaker? I'm quite incredulous to your proposal. My short answer would be: I think the easiest read on this is Mari Olsen on Verbal Aspect. Yes, the DC can be the time of speaking (more so in didac...
by Alan Patterson
October 10th, 2012, 12:59 pm
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?
Replies: 30
Views: 8797

Re: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?

I am not arguing that the historic present is a idiom!!! I am arguing that οὐκ εἰσίν is an idiom for death. What I am arguing regarding the Historic Present is that there is NO Historic Present at all. I am saying that the Present Tense is in relation to X, whenever that X is. I have argued that the...
by Alan Patterson
October 10th, 2012, 6:59 am
Forum: New Testament
Topic: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?
Replies: 30
Views: 8797

Re: Matt 2:18 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσίν ... historical present?

Stephen,

My only caution is not to base too much on THIS usage by virtue of the fact it is an idiom within a quote. Idioms by definition are grammatical oddities.

Go to advanced search