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by Stirling Bartholomew
October 25th, 2020, 12:56 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: Meta Language
Replies: 23
Views: 2334

Re: Meta Language

Why should I not be interested in this. I was asking this question long before you were on the forum. What benefit does a student who wants to read Koine attain from becoming an expert in grammatical tagging? If your objective is to talk about secondary exegetical literature then then there is plen...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 24th, 2020, 3:59 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: Meta Language
Replies: 23
Views: 2334

Re: Meta Language

§49 ὁ δὲ θεὸς ἥττονα γυναικείας συμβουλίας αὐτὸν γενόμενον ὑπετίθει τιμωρίᾳ, τὴν γῆν οὐκέτι μὲν οὐδὲν αὐτοῖς ἀναδώσειν αὐτομάτως εἰπών, πονοῦσι δὲ καὶ τοῖς ἔργοις τριβομένοις τὰ μὲν παρέξειν, τῶν δ ̓ οὐκ ἀξιώσειν. Εὔαν δὲ τοκετοῖς καὶ ταῖς ἐξ ὠδίνων ἀλγηδόσιν ἐκόλαζεν, ὅτι τὸν Ἄδαμον οἷς αὐτὴν ὁ ὄφ...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 13th, 2020, 1:48 pm
Forum: Syntax and Grammar
Topic: Meta Language
Replies: 23
Views: 2334

Meta Language

From: Yancy Smith <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] translation strategies To: "'B Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 7:20 AM I want to add two pence to this discussion from the far left field. My Greek teacher, Mr. Robert Johnston of...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 11th, 2020, 1:28 pm
Forum: Beginners Forum
Topic: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental
Replies: 24
Views: 2650

Re: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental

Can you clarify on that? Idiomatic perhaps, but truly private? You need to familiarize yourself with secondary literature on the language of the Apocalypse. I don't have a bibliography on hand. It has been argued that the idioms of Apocalypse form a coherent system but it isn't a system found anywh...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 11th, 2020, 1:16 pm
Forum: Beginners Forum
Topic: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental
Replies: 24
Views: 2650

Re: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental

Which doesn’t answer my question in the original post :D Namely whether this usage in 12:11 and 13:14 is found in other texts in Koine / classical. And to be fair, with regards to the meta language - surely it is important to understand in what sense BDF / BDAG are using their terminology? Your loo...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 11th, 2020, 1:05 pm
Forum: Beginners Forum
Topic: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental
Replies: 24
Views: 2650

Re: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental

Matthew Longhorn wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:58 pm It can if you are taking the death language as a metaphor ...
It isn't a metaphor. You can forget about that. You need to provide the content from your author if you want any meaningful refutation.
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 11th, 2020, 12:53 pm
Forum: Beginners Forum
Topic: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental
Replies: 24
Views: 2650

Re: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental

Hey Stirling, I am not sure that that deals with the question. I would assume that Winters would also argue this verse is the same as 6:9, 12:11 and 13:14 The question is whether efficient cause / instrumental (I am not sure of the difference) would apply here indicating that the martyrs are slain ...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 11th, 2020, 11:43 am
Forum: Beginners Forum
Topic: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental
Replies: 24
Views: 2650

Re: Rev 12:11 and 13:14 - δια + acc as instrumental

The place to look for idioms in the Apocalypse is in the Apocalypse. Rev. 20:4 Καὶ εἶδον θρόνους καὶ ἐκάθισαν ἐπ᾿ αὐτοὺς καὶ κρίμα ἐδόθη αὐτοῖς, καὶ τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν πεπελεκισμένων διὰ τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ καὶ διὰ τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ οἵτινες οὐ προσεκύνησαν τὸ θηρίον οὐδὲ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἔλα...
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 7th, 2020, 7:00 pm
Forum: Grammar Questions
Topic: Romans 1:3. Own translation. Grammar check
Replies: 19
Views: 2377

Re: Romans 1:3. Own translation. Grammar check

Stirling Bartholomew wrote: October 7th, 2020, 3:27 pm (τοῦ γενομένου) should not be translated (with an English article).
Tyndale translated it "the which" perhaps following Wycliffe. The Ancient Greek Article needs to be understood independent of translation. Translation isn't a path to understanding.
by Stirling Bartholomew
October 7th, 2020, 3:27 pm
Forum: Grammar Questions
Topic: Romans 1:3. Own translation. Grammar check
Replies: 19
Views: 2377

Re: Romans 1:3. Own translation. Grammar check

Romans 1:3 περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ, τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυὶδ κατὰ σάρκα, (concerning the Son of him, the having come into being out from the seed [singular] of David according to the flesh,) Hello, I have translated the above text as, “the having come into being out from the seed [singular] of ...

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