Page 1 of 3

Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 10:55 am
by Matthew Longhorn
I tried searching for this on the forum before posting but both Hebrew and Genitive were flagged as words too common. Use of “” didn’t work.

Ghassan Khalaf in his book “The Adnominal Genitive in the Pauline Corpus”, talking of the Hebrew Genitive states on page 94
This kind of adjectival genitive is called the “Hebrew” genitive, because it is rarely found in classical Greek. Its function and usage are almost exclusively Hebrew… Blass and Debrunner note, “Hebrew usage is thus reflected, in that this construction compensates for the nearly non-existent adjective. Classical Greek exhibits very sparse parallels in poetry only”… This is not to say that the usage is absolutely foreign to Greek: the usage is possible, but unusual in earlier periods of Greek until it is brought to the forefront in Hellenistic Greek by usage paralleled in Hebrew
He also cites Zerwick and Turner to this effect.


Any thoughts on this from our classists or those familiar with secular Hellenistic Greek where a Hebraic influence is less likely? I am planning on keeping my eye out for it in Lucian’s works as I continue through those as well as some other secular texts I am working through.

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 2:41 pm
by Jason Hare
Right. The search feature isn’t really working. You can substitute it by searching on Google for:
site:https://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum "attributive genitive"
You can put whatever you want in the quotation marks, of course. Here’s an example of the results.

Here’s a discussion of the structure.

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 2:42 pm
by Matthew Longhorn
Thanks Jason, I will store that method away for the future as well

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 2:44 pm
by Jason Hare
Matthew Longhorn wrote: January 8th, 2022, 2:42 pm Thanks Jason, I will store that method away for the future as well
I didn’t expect you to read/respond so quickly. I added another line to that post while you were submitting your response.

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 2:51 pm
by Matthew Longhorn
Jason Hare wrote: January 8th, 2022, 2:41 pm Here’s a discussion of the structure.
Thanks for that - I am more focussing in on whether the use of the genitive in the NT is really due to the influence of Hebrew / Greek translated from Hebrew. The list of grammarians who say it is makes me fairly confident that it is a fair, but some of these are quite old grammars. I have also seen a number of things that used to be attributed to Hebraic influence that have subsequently come to be seen as fairly standard in secular Greek

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 5:59 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Jason Hare wrote: January 8th, 2022, 2:41 pm Right. The search feature isn’t really working. You can substitute it by searching on Google for:
site:https://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum "attributive genitive"
And at one point we even had a customization that when straight to the Google search. Unfortunately, it does not survive the upgrading process.

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 6:03 pm
by Stephen Carlson
Matthew Longhorn wrote: January 8th, 2022, 2:51 pm
Jason Hare wrote: January 8th, 2022, 2:41 pm Here’s a discussion of the structure.
Thanks for that - I am more focussing in on whether the use of the genitive in the NT is really due to the influence of Hebrew / Greek translated from Hebrew. The list of grammarians who say it is makes me fairly confident that it is a fair, but some of these are quite old grammars. I have also seen a number of things that used to be attributed to Hebraic influence that have subsequently come to be seen as fairly standard in secular Greek
I always take these now with a grain of salt. As fewer and fewer Biblical scholars are trained in Classical Greek, these comments pointing out the differences between Koine and Classical become less and less relevant.

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 8:02 pm
by RandallButh
I always take these now with a grain of salt.
qal vaHomer with Hebrew. Few NT scholars, old or new, are adequately trained in Hebrew. [I define "adequate" as able to comfortably read an article on Qumran or Mishnaic Hebrew in Hebrew.]

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 8:05 pm
by Jason Hare
RandallButh wrote: January 8th, 2022, 8:02 pm qal vaHomer with Hebrew. Few NT scholars, old or new, are adequately trained in Hebrew.
Indeed, few OT scholars are adequately trained in speak ing in Hebrew. I wish Hebrew would make its way to the conversational level for OT scholars.

Re: Hebraic/Hebrew Genitive

Posted: January 8th, 2022, 8:12 pm
by RandallButh
Jason Hare wrote: January 8th, 2022, 8:05 pm
RandallButh wrote: January 8th, 2022, 8:02 pm qal vaHomer with Hebrew. Few NT scholars, old or new, are adequately trained in Hebrew.
Indeed, few OT scholars are adequately trained in speak ing in Hebrew. I wish Hebrew would make its way to the conversational level for OT scholars.

ἀκριβῶς