Can anybody give me a figure for the total number of lexemes represented in the NT and the LXX, and an educated guess about the total number of lexemes listed in LSJ, maybe? It's to shed some light into a rather heated debate about whether Greek/English/some other language is more suited to communicating divine truth because of the relative size of the vocabularies.
Ruth Mathys
Total vocabulary of Greek?
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Re: Total vocabulary of Greek?
TLG seems to believe that LSJ has 119,553 entries (http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1&context=lsj). Oxford University Press claims the newer edition has "Nearly twice the size of the 1968 edition, with over 20,000 entries" (http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780198642268.do).
Rod Decker claims the New Testament has nearly 5,000 lexemes (http://ntresources.com/classes/nt887.htm).
I don't have a good estimate for the Septuagint.
Rod Decker claims the New Testament has nearly 5,000 lexemes (http://ntresources.com/classes/nt887.htm).
I don't have a good estimate for the Septuagint.
I doubt these numbers will be very helpful for that. For instance, John uses a very, very small vocabulary with richly structured sentences in a very profound way. How do you measure the amount of meaning in his sentences compared to, say, Richard Hays? I doubt that simple numbers will help. And I doubt that debate is as useful as careful, slow reading for appreciating what is there in either language.Ruth Mathys wrote:It's to shed some light into a rather heated debate about whether Greek/English/some other language is more suited to communicating divine truth because of the relative size of the vocabularies.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: Total vocabulary of Greek?
Is that really a heated debate?Ruth Mathys wrote:It's to shed some light into a rather heated debate about whether Greek/English/some other language is more suited to communicating divine truth because of the relative size of the vocabularies.
In any case, the entire question misguided because a language is not merely the total sum of its vocabulary. What makes a given language effective for any communicative task goes well beyond words.
Mike Aubrey, Linguist
SIL International
Koine-Greek.com
SIL International
Koine-Greek.com
Re: Total vocabulary of Greek?
Indeed. A language with a very large vocabulary (like English today) may be very ineffective in the mouth of the ones who are not conversant in it. Conversely, ASL (with a rather limited vocabulary) can be very effective in the hands of one who is fluent in it. Besides, there is an infinite number of possible texts, whatever the vocabulary size, and therefore what two languages can express cannot be compared in terms of vocabulary, or grammatical constructions for that matter. If it is not easy to say something in English for example, I just have to say it in longer ways and in different ways, and by combining concepts to make sure I get the correct meaning across, like what we do when we are trying to explain something to someone.MAubrey wrote:Is that really a heated debate?Ruth Mathys wrote:It's to shed some light into a rather heated debate about whether Greek/English/some other language is more suited to communicating divine truth because of the relative size of the vocabularies.
In any case, the entire question misguided because a language is not merely the total sum of its vocabulary. What makes a given language effective for any communicative task goes well beyond words.
δαυιδ λιμ
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Re: Total vocabulary of Greek?
For some purposes, a minimal number of vocabulary words is all you need.
"Me Tarzan, you Jane."
Language tends to invent a single word (often made of a prefix and suffix) to explain a whole series of words.
My mother coined the word, "ret" as the process of removing the dishes from a table after a meal, as the opposite of "set" as in "set the table for dinner."
Abbreviations abound in English (e.g., SUV, ABS, laser, radar).
Now with the texting abbreviations (e.g., LOL), single words replace longer expressions.
So does the inclusion of LOL increase the number of English words? Does it make understanding English easier or more expressive?
I have the largest automotive dictionary on the internet. It is used throughout the world by translators.
Yet many of the terms (e.g., gudgeon pin, woodruff key) are totally unfamiliar to the average person. I cannot find most of those words in the NT, LXX, or Early Church writings.
Does that make Koine Greek deficient? I think not.
I get email from translators who say they have to coin new words to their language to express automotive terms.
Was their language deficient before?
Any language can use circumlocution with a vocabulary of just a few thousand.
"Me Tarzan, you Jane."
Language tends to invent a single word (often made of a prefix and suffix) to explain a whole series of words.
My mother coined the word, "ret" as the process of removing the dishes from a table after a meal, as the opposite of "set" as in "set the table for dinner."
Abbreviations abound in English (e.g., SUV, ABS, laser, radar).
Now with the texting abbreviations (e.g., LOL), single words replace longer expressions.
So does the inclusion of LOL increase the number of English words? Does it make understanding English easier or more expressive?
I have the largest automotive dictionary on the internet. It is used throughout the world by translators.
Yet many of the terms (e.g., gudgeon pin, woodruff key) are totally unfamiliar to the average person. I cannot find most of those words in the NT, LXX, or Early Church writings.
Does that make Koine Greek deficient? I think not.
I get email from translators who say they have to coin new words to their language to express automotive terms.
Was their language deficient before?
Any language can use circumlocution with a vocabulary of just a few thousand.
καὶ ἀνέγνωσαν ἐν βιβλίῳ νόμου τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ ἐδίδασκεν Εσδρας καὶ διέστελλεν ἐν ἐπιστήμῃ κυρίου καὶ συνῆκεν ὁ λαὸς ἐν τῇ ἀναγνώσει. (Neh. 8:8)
[url]http://www.GreekDoc.com/lxx/neh/neh08.html[/url]
[url]http://www.GreekDoc.com/lxx/neh/neh08.html[/url]