Hebrew?

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mikeatnip
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Joined: May 6th, 2020, 12:07 pm

Hebrew?

Post by mikeatnip »

I know this is a Greek site. I went looking for a B-Hebrew companion site and it seems to be a serve-list.
I am looking to start into Hebrew and figure someone on here has a recommendation. I am auto-didactic; learned Spanish, a bit of German, and Greek self-taught. I prefer the old-fashioned grammar method as a base method, but communicative mixed in is fine. I want to learn how the language works, not just memorize definitions.
Any recommendations for a non-internet course? I want to be able to study disconnected at times. Needs to be able to self-pace, meaning 6 hours some days and then may have to skip for a few weeks or even months if schedule goes haywire. Preferably easy on the pocketbook, as well!
Thanks for any recommendations.
Mike Atnip
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
James Spinti
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by James Spinti »

For a traditional grammar approach, I would suggest Futato, Beginning Biblical Hebrew (Eisenbrauns), or Pratico/van Pelt, Basics of Biblical Hebrew (Zondervan); for a linguistic/ESL-type approach, Cook & Holmstedt, Beginning Biblical Hebrew (Baker Academic) is a good one—they use a graphic novel dialogue section, as well, and have a reader out now too. For immersive, Randall Buth's courses are the best option.

HTH,
James
Proofreading and copyediting of ancient Near Eastern and biblical studies monographs
Jason Hare
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by Jason Hare »

B-Hebrew is active at bhebrew.biblicalhumanities.org.

Having taught through Kutz and Josberger’s Learning Biblical Hebrew (Lexham), I recommend it highly. I also put all the lessons from my course on YouTube for free access.
Jason A. Hare
The Hebrew Café
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RandallButh
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by RandallButh »

People should be aware that there are sometimes different "Hebrew"s being taught.

For example, for about 3000 years the Hebrew yiqtol and weqatal have been treated as encoding the same tense-mood-aspect in different, complementary contexts. One of the grammars above (Cook-Holmstedt) does not include weqatal as part of the Hebrew verb system, plus they work from S-V-X as the default word order. So, a student will get a skewed Hebrew and skewed pragmatics (unless one believes that a skewed Hebrew is "real Hebrew," [but it isn't]). [To what may this be compared? Once upon a time someone tried to teach Greek with no time in the indicative mood . . . ]

[PS: extensive pragmatics and stylistic nuances are in the footnotes, in English, in the Buth-Living Biblical Hebrew materials.]
Jason Hare
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by Jason Hare »

RandallButh wrote: April 9th, 2022, 12:41 pm One of the grammars above (Cook-Holmstedt) does not include weqatal as part of the Hebrew verb system, plus they work from S-V-X as the default word order.
The S-V-O word order thing from Cook and Holmstedt should be confronted, successfully or unsuccessfully. I can see their argument making sense of the issues involved. I don’t see that the traditional approach explains the exceptions. Is it true that they do not work wəqāṭal into their system? It certainly has a place in Cook’s discussion of the verb system in Time and the Biblical Hebrew Verb: The Expression of Tense, Aspect, and Modality in Biblical Hebrew (Eisenbrauns, 2012). In §3.3.3.2, Cook describes it as a form of qāṭal that is used for irrealis mood (specifically, the optative in secondary conditionals [with לוּ and לוּלֵא]), which happens also without the vav prefix.
RandallButh wrote: April 9th, 2022, 12:41 pm So, a student will get a skewed Hebrew and skewed pragmatics (unless one believes that a skewed Hebrew is "real Hebrew," [but it isn't]). [To what may this be compared? Once upon a time someone tried to teach Greek with no time in the indicative mood . . . ]
I don’t see why it’s a skewed Hebrew or skewed pragmatics, though. Perhaps you can come over to B-Hebrew and have the discussion?

Jason
Jason A. Hare
The Hebrew Café
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mikeatnip
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by mikeatnip »

Thanks to all for the replies. I shall do some investigating to see which appeals most to my style of learning. I have come to realize that our different character makeups mean that different didactic approaches are needed for differences in learning preferences. My adopted son does not do well with a traditional grammar approach; he needs fully interactive to learn best. That's the way he is and I have to let him be that way for his own good, even though for myself it doesn't fly so well.
Thanks for the tipoff, Randall. I like to know about the options and the weaknesses. At this point in my Hebrew knowledge, what you say makes zero sense because I do not even have the alphabet memorized. :D
Mike Atnip
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
Jonathan Robie
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by Jonathan Robie »

I really, really like Aleph with Beth, and it's free:

https://freehebrew.hismagnificence.com/resources/

I also like BibleMesh Hebrew:

https://courses.biblemesh.com/biblical- ... es-courses

But if I were paying for a course, I would want a course with an instructor. And that's available via Zoom from several places now. Randall, how much would it cost and how does it work for people who want online instruction via your institute? What else is out there?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
RandallButh
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Re: Hebrew?

Post by RandallButh »

JasonHare wrote
In §3.3.3.2, Cook describes it as a form of qāṭal that is used for irrealis mood (specifically, the optative in secondary conditionals [with לוּ and לוּלֵא]), which happens also without the vav prefix.
But that is exactly the point. In veqatal in Biblical Hebrew the qatal is not a perfect but is the same time-mood-aspect as yiqtol. Cook denies that and does not include that. Read Gen 29:1-3 and Gen 2.6 ed ya`ale ve-hishqa ... The watering is not a "perfect" but is the same habitual as the yiqtol ya`ale. Both yiqtol and veqatal are signaling the same past habitual. In future contexts (no examples to be given here to same space and time) BOTH yiqtol AND veqatal default to perfective events in the future. The yiqtol and veqatal refer to the same time-mood-aspect presentations. And both yiqtol and veqatal can be used with maHar 'tomorrow' but never vayyiqtol nor simple qatal.
RandallButh wrote: ↑April 9th, 2022, 7:41 pm
So, a student will get a skewed Hebrew and skewed pragmatics (unless one believes that a skewed Hebrew is "real Hebrew," [but it isn't]). [To what may this be compared? Once upon a time someone tried to teach Greek with no time in the indicative mood . . . ]
I don’t see why it’s a skewed Hebrew or skewed pragmatics, though.
So at Jonah 1.4 we have ha-shem heTil (SV) instead of vayyatel ha-shem. If SV is basic then we have no signal and nothing to explain. But Biblical Hebrew is VS, so there is a special, pragmatic signal to explain. The SV broke the thematic chain at a point of new beginning, here a new scene/paragraph. At 1:5 ve-Yonah yarad el yarkete ha-sfina the break signal helps the reader to re-set the time to a previous point some minutes or hours previously. Even ve-ha-oniah Hishva le-hishaver provides a break signal to stall the story at a dramatic pause. The SV clauses are pragmatic markings to help the reader. Holmstedt has at least acknowledged that this makes a strong claim, he just doesn't pay attention to the signal. [PS: Cook-Holmstedt don't like this, but the ki-clauses, asher-clauses, and im-clauses, etc., do not need as much topicalization and typically only have pre-verbal fronting for Focus, leaving the remaining strong majority as VS. They must then use an AD-HOC flipping rule to get the data to match their theory. PPS: in linguistics, ADHOC becomes synonymous with 'falsified by Occam'.]

For Jonathan, the Institute for Biblical Languages and Translation provides an in-person 9-month immersion program in Jerusalem and also runs online programs for translation organizations. To sign up for the same, first two open courses, a person should go to biblicallanguagecenter.com. The asynchronous part of the third course "Abraham" should be available around the end of 2022.
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