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Re: Greetings χαιρετε

Posted: December 20th, 2021, 2:21 pm
by Barry Hofstetter
James Spinti wrote: December 19th, 2021, 7:51 pm American Classicists generally (not universally) make a distinction. In my experience, it is mainly Seminary-trained and Christian-college-trained Hellenists who pronounce an o-micron as an alpha instead of a shorter form of an o-mega.

That's not a function of Erasmian itself, but a function of the way it was taught to them. Of course, the software company, Logos, being pronounced Lahgahs doesn't help. I still can't bring myself to pronounce it that way. To me it is Logos, with slightly shortened omegas.

James
This got me interested in the English comparison used by intro grammars. From three classical intros:

Crosby & Schaeffer (which I used in college): omicron = o as in obey, omega = o as in ocean. (1928)

Chase & Phillips: omicron = o in optics or November, omega = o in ode "or between o of not and ou in ought." (1941)

Athenaze: omicron = boat, goat, omega = caught "but held longer." (1995)

The only specifically NT intro I have is Rife (which was given to me): omicron = o as in mote, omega o as in mode... (1941)

:shock: :D :P :roll:

Re: Greetings χαιρετε

Posted: December 20th, 2021, 6:29 pm
by Shirley Rollinson
Barry Hofstetter wrote: December 20th, 2021, 2:21 pm
James Spinti wrote: December 19th, 2021, 7:51 pm American Classicists generally (not universally) make a distinction. In my experience, it is mainly Seminary-trained and Christian-college-trained Hellenists who pronounce an o-micron as an alpha instead of a shorter form of an o-mega.

That's not a function of Erasmian itself, but a function of the way it was taught to them. Of course, the software company, Logos, being pronounced Lahgahs doesn't help. I still can't bring myself to pronounce it that way. To me it is Logos, with slightly shortened omegas.

James
This got me interested in the English comparison used by intro grammars. From three classical intros:

Crosby & Schaeffer (which I used in college): omicron = o as in obey, omega = o as in ocean. (1928)

Chase & Phillips: omicron = o in optics or November, omega = o in ode "or between o of not and ou in ought." (1941)

Athenaze: omicron = boat, goat, omega = caught "but held longer." (1995)

The only specifically NT intro I have is Rife (which was given to me): omicron = o as in mote, omega o as in mode... (1941)

:shock: :D :P :roll:
That's enough to prove that 'anything goes' :-) Or that pronunciation mutates as fast as corona virus
Shirley Rollinson

Re: Greetings χαιρετε

Posted: December 21st, 2021, 5:40 pm
by Christopher M. Tully
Barry, would you say those 4 grammars you mentioned are all Erasmean?

Here's a photo of Rife for reference.

Image

Re: Greetings χαιρετε

Posted: December 23rd, 2021, 6:06 am
by Christopher M. Tully
...and yes, from what I can tell all of the above grammars are indeed Erasmian. What I was going to say next was that I dislike the Erasmian further because my professor tends to arbitrarily use long and short epsilons and iotas at her discretion, but after reviewing a few of the threads around here on pronunciation I am actually beginning to favor the Erasmian, but not the one that confuses the omicron and alpha...

From what I can tell there are several main ways today of pronouncing Ancient Greek:
  • Attic Restored
  • Koine Restored
  • Modern
  • Lucian (new)
  • Erasmian


Before moving onto other things, I should say that what I think I like about the Erasmian is that it seems to be quite phonetic, like Spanish is. And being that my primary usage for Ancient Greek would be as a sacred language, for prayer and private reading, I like the concept of using an idealized language. Whether or not it might be historical seems to me unimportant. Yes, if I went to a Greek church service or to Athens I would use their dialect...