2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
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2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
2 Corinthians 7:1
Ταύτας οὖν ἔχοντες τὰς ἐπαγγελίας, ἀγαπητοί, καθαρίσωμεν ἑαυτοὺς ἀπὸ παντὸς μολυσμοῦ σαρκὸς καὶ πνεύματος, ἐπιτελοῦντες ἁγιωσύνην ἐν φόβῳ θεοῦ.
My question is, why this is aorist active instead of middle or passive? I would have expected the middle/passive since the action happens to the ones who are practicing it.
Thanks!
Ταύτας οὖν ἔχοντες τὰς ἐπαγγελίας, ἀγαπητοί, καθαρίσωμεν ἑαυτοὺς ἀπὸ παντὸς μολυσμοῦ σαρκὸς καὶ πνεύματος, ἐπιτελοῦντες ἁγιωσύνην ἐν φόβῳ θεοῦ.
My question is, why this is aorist active instead of middle or passive? I would have expected the middle/passive since the action happens to the ones who are practicing it.
Thanks!
Mike Atnip
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
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Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
The active with a reflexive pronoun, as here, is a pretty common way to convey an action that one applies to oneself.mikeatnip wrote: ↑December 19th, 2021, 12:32 pm 2 Corinthians 7:1
Ταύτας οὖν ἔχοντες τὰς ἐπαγγελίας, ἀγαπητοί, καθαρίσωμεν ἑαυτοὺς ἀπὸ παντὸς μολυσμοῦ σαρκὸς καὶ πνεύματος, ἐπιτελοῦντες ἁγιωσύνην ἐν φόβῳ θεοῦ.
My question is, why this is aorist active instead of middle or passive? I would have expected the middle/passive since the action happens to the ones who are practicing it.
Thanks!
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
A recent thread on here talked about deponency and how that concept may not be the correct way to look at "middle-only" verbs. So I have two questions in light of that.
1. Is this construction the standard way that non-deponent (for lack of a better term) verbs would become reflexive?
2. If not, is there any reason beyond personal choice at the moment of writing why active with reflexive pronoun would be used over middle?
Thanks again!
1. Is this construction the standard way that non-deponent (for lack of a better term) verbs would become reflexive?
2. If not, is there any reason beyond personal choice at the moment of writing why active with reflexive pronoun would be used over middle?
Thanks again!
Mike Atnip
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
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Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
There are tendencies that can be observed. If an action is frequently performed on another but performed on oneself, you’ll tend to see an active plus reflexive pronoun. If the action is more frequently performed on oneself then it is more likely to see a middle.mikeatnip wrote: ↑December 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm A recent thread on here talked about deponency and how that concept may not be the correct way to look at "middle-only" verbs. So I have two questions in light of that.
1. Is this construction the standard way that non-deponent (for lack of a better term) verbs would become reflexive?
2. If not, is there any reason beyond personal choice at the moment of writing why active with reflexive pronoun would be used over middle?
Thanks again!
Applied to the verse in question, cleansing is usually done by priests upon others. Here, Paul is asking the Corinthians to cleanse themselves.
Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D.
Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
That makes sense. I will probably be watching for that as I continue reading to see how consistent it is. Of course, I realize that this is not a "rule" as such.
I do thank you for the help. I am at the learning stage where I understand how the language "works," but I find these little nuances interesting and helpful.
I do thank you for the help. I am at the learning stage where I understand how the language "works," but I find these little nuances interesting and helpful.
Mike Atnip
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
Let me just add that the direct reflexive use of the middle was fairly rare even in classical Greek, and pretty much restricted to certain verbs.
Direct-Reflexive Meaning 35.11 Primarily with verbs that denote a habitual physical treatment, like λούω bathe, κείρω cut hair, κοσμέω adorn, ἀλείφω anoint – so-called verbs of grooming – the middle-passive voice may indicate that the subject applies the action to himself: direct-reflexive meaning. A few other verbs whose middle-passive voice may have direct-reflexive meaning are παρασκευάζω prepare, γυμνάζω train, στεφανόω crown, τάττω array...
van Emde Boas, Evert; Rijksbaron, Albert; Huitink, Luuk; de Bakker, Mathieu. The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek (p. 453). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition.
Direct-Reflexive Meaning 35.11 Primarily with verbs that denote a habitual physical treatment, like λούω bathe, κείρω cut hair, κοσμέω adorn, ἀλείφω anoint – so-called verbs of grooming – the middle-passive voice may indicate that the subject applies the action to himself: direct-reflexive meaning. A few other verbs whose middle-passive voice may have direct-reflexive meaning are παρασκευάζω prepare, γυμνάζω train, στεφανόω crown, τάττω array...
van Emde Boas, Evert; Rijksbaron, Albert; Huitink, Luuk; de Bakker, Mathieu. The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek (p. 453). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition.
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Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
This addresses precisely the question you asked in a little more depth:
Active+Reflexive vs. Middle Voice: What’s the Difference?
Active+Reflexive vs. Middle Voice: What’s the Difference?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
Thanks, Jonathan. This helped. I have not had to read much further to find another active with reflexive pronoun.Jonathan Robie wrote: ↑December 20th, 2021, 11:43 am This addresses precisely the question you asked in a little more depth:
Active+Reflexive vs. Middle Voice: What’s the Difference?
2 Co. 8:5: καὶ οὐ καθὼς ἠλπίσαμεν, ἀλλ' ἑαυτοὺς ἔδωκαν πρῶτον τῷ κυρίῳ, καὶ ἡμῖν διὰ θελήματος θεοῦ
This fits the criteria of being an action not normally done to oneself, so I assume that is the reason for the active verb with reflexive pronoun.
Mike Atnip
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
May I not debate presumptuously; may I not be silent impudently. May I learn beneficial speech; may I acquire discerning silence. -Ephrem the Syrian
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Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
I imagine the difference in meaning could be like the difference between 'wash your hands' (as somewhat reflecting the middle voice in Greek) and 'wash that dirt off your hands' (virtually equivalent to active verb + reflexive pronoun in Greek); the emphasis in the second case would be on the matter to be cleansed rather than the fact that the action is done for one's own benefit, etc. Just personal opinion - don't take it too seriously...
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Re: 2 Cor. 7:1 active vs middle/passive
I think the reflexive here is needed because this is an active, transitive verb. Without it, we do not know who is to be cleansed. In general, verbs used in the active with reflexives like ἑαυτού are not middle, if the sense is clearly middle, the reflexive is not needed to identify the object.Vasile Stancu wrote: ↑December 21st, 2021, 3:03 amI imagine the difference in meaning could be like the difference between 'wash your hands' (as somewhat reflecting the middle voice in Greek) and 'wash that dirt off your hands' (virtually equivalent to active verb + reflexive pronoun in Greek); the emphasis in the second case would be on the matter to be cleansed rather than the fact that the action is done for one's own benefit, etc. Just personal opinion - don't take it too seriously...
In English, we say "I showered", with no reflexive, because it is clearly middle in sense. We say "I hit myself", with a reflexive, because "I hit" does not imply that the subject is the one who is hit.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/