Where to begin...

[Nathan Binns]

Hi everyone,

As I said in my introduction when I first joined up here, the reason why I am interested in getting my Greek (and Hebrew) as good as possible is I am planning to do bible translation through Wycliffe Bible Translators. Specifically I the next 2 years to devote to language learning as much as possible, then in 2017 my wife and I will move to the SIL training institute in Melbourne (other side of the country from me, should be fun) to learn linguistics, then in 2018 moving to...actually I have no idea where yet.

Anyway, all of that serves as context for my question that I have for you all: If you had 3 years to get your Greek and Hebrew as good as possible in your spare time, where would you start? I have a M.Div, so 3 years of training in the grammar-translation method, but I found that taught me more about Greek/Hebrew than actually teaching me how to use the languages themselves. I have spent the last few months searching online for what resources/materials are available for further study and there are so, SO many (a lifetime's worth) that I can't possibly make use of them all, so I thought I would ask for everyone here's help on how best to prioritise my study. Here's what I have done so far (in no particular order)

- vastly increase my vocabulary: currently teaching myself all the words that appear in the NT 10x or more.

- learn to instantly recognise ALL the different verb forms...obviously it's not possible to read a language with any kind of fluency without this, so I'm not sure why they didn't stress the importance of it in seminary but there you go (over-reliance on bible software, perhaps)

- learn more than just the NT. I am planning to take up reading the LXX in the upcoming months, and also have pdfs of numerous church fathers and so on.

- I am not bothering reading too much into more advanced grammar (aspect theory etc) as I feel it's best to learn the language first, then about the language second.

- to that end I'm currently doing communicative koine classes online via the conversational koine institute to actually learn the language (although they're only 1 hour a week, but I suppose it's better than nothing).

- I'm deliberately focusing on Greek this year, then Hebrew next year as it seems to me like a bad idea to intensively study 2 languages at the same time.

So, those are my initial thoughts. Any suggestions/corrections would be much appreciated!

[Paul-Nitz]

The way I'm taking your post is that you are asking, "How can an autodidact best internalize Greek?"

The one simplest method I've found most useful is to read manageable bites of text with 100% comprehension. For me, that means reading the text so that I do not stumble on any pronunciation. Reading until I can speak it with complete understanding, making choices along the way how my verbal phrasing of the text sounds. Then I "gesture" the text. Gesticulate, pace, perform, or do anything that makes you feel that you are truly communicating this text to someone. This has been the best "communicative" style autodidact activity I have found.

If, along the way, there is a construction or form that surprises me or confuses me, I try to figure it out with the grammars. So I do end up doing some reading in grammars such as Smyth, Robertson, Funk, etc. But hunting down answers should never eat up more than a small part of the entire study. It is better to gloss over difficult words or passages than to spend hours researching an answer.

I would not bother to learn vocabulary by memorizing glosses, if that's what you meant about adding vocabulary. It's terribly inefficient and can lead to cementing and incorrect understanding of a word. Concentrate on structure, not vocabulary. Vocabulary will sink in naturally as you read (intensively) more texts.

[Stirling Bartholomew]

- vastly increase my vocabulary: currently teaching myself all the words that appear in the NT 10x or more.

- learn to instantly recognise ALL the different verb forms...obviously it's not possible to read a language with any kind of fluency without this, so I'm not sure why they didn't stress the importance of it in seminary but there you go (over-reliance on bible software, perhaps)

The seminary greek programs have may have been overtaken by pragmatic considerations. Learning all the "Regular" forms is a big project and then there are all the irregularities.

I might be better to learn the basics from the charts and then absorb the others while encountering them. I agree with Paul-Nitz on the vocabulary question.

On the question of "finding it in the grammar" sometimes this is beneficial and sometimes it isn't worth the time invested. After a while looking for an explanation of an idiom in a grammar can begin to be a pointless exercise. The explanations in the grammars may not help you internalize the idiom. I still have the habit of looking up idioms to see what the grammars have to say but it doesn't increase my ability to read and it slows things down.

[Thomas Dolhanty]

The way I'm taking your post is that you are asking, "How can an autodidact best internalize Greek?"

The one simplest method I've found most useful is to read manageable bites of text with 100% comprehension. For me, that means reading the text so that I do not stumble on any pronunciation. Reading until I can speak it with complete understanding, making choices along the way how my verbal phrasing of the text sounds. Then I "gesture" the text. Gesticulate, pace, perform, or do anything that makes you feel that you are truly communicating this text to someone. This has been the best "communicative" style autodidact activity I have found.

If, along the way, there is a construction or form that surprises me or confuses me, I try to figure it out with the grammars. So I do end up doing some reading in grammars such as Smyth, Robertson, Funk, etc. But hunting down answers should never eat up more than a small part of the entire study. It is better to gloss over difficult words or passages than to spend hours researching an answer.

I would not bother to learn vocabulary by memorizing glosses, if that's what you meant about adding vocabulary. It's terribly inefficient and can lead to cementing and incorrect understanding of a word. Concentrate on structure, not vocabulary. Vocabulary will sink in naturally as you read (intensively) more texts.

Amen! I think this is very good advice. When I first started, I covered way too much text, and yet really understood very little of it. Eventually I developed an approach very similar to that described by Paul.

I found it very beneficial to find a chapter or periscope which was particularly interesting to me or that contained much drama. For me, one such passage was John 9. I would read it over aloud until I could read it with real expression, and until I felt I could understand the reason for the type of language used. Eventually, I developed such a familiarity with whole books of the NT which I could read more or less in the same fashion. I kept going back from time to time, to read over again the text that I had covered in the past. - expanding out from the familiar to the new.

This way the narrative became real and alive for me and I subconsciously more and more associated the language with the narrative - if that makes any sense.

[RandallButh]

If you are already doing an hour online communicatively and are planning on Bible translation you probably already know about the pictures in Living Koine Greek 1 and all of the oral drill material in Living Koine Greek 2a and 2b.
I would recommend going through those materials so that you can picture the meaning on hearing the speech. There is quite a bit of vocabulary in those materials. The picture book material, especially, helps to break up analytical habits and build straight connections between Greek and meaning. It is like putting primer paint in your brain. Even though the picture book is "introductory level" it is still excellent for someone after doing grammar translation. The language will almost seem like something new at first, it's kind of exciting. After getting all those materials internalized you will be ready to tackle something like the oral material in the Epictetus booklet.

And since you are planning on a lifelong active use of the biblical languages, by all means plan on 1-2 years in Israel, sooner rather than later. There is nothing like becoming fluent in Hebrew.

[Barry Hofstetter]

Lots of good advice. Let me add and emphasize: read as much as possible, and read as much extra-biblical Greek as you can, from the entire spectrum of writings available to us from the ancient world. Do not rapidly translate, but actually read for comprehension without translating. Memorizing vocabulary lists is fine, but it's something you should outgrow. Vocabulary acquisition should come from much time spent in the language...

[Nathan Binns]

Thanks so much for all your advice guys!

The way I'm taking your post is that you are asking, "How can an autodidact best internalize Greek?"

That would be a more succinct way of putting it, yes. But hey I'm studying Greek Grammar not English Prose ...
Your approach actually sounds really useful, I'm definitely going to switch to that and see how it goes. Although I do find memorising glosses (at least initially) is rather helpful as it gives me a foot in the door so to speak, but only so long as I don't let myself forget that they are only glosses, and build them into proper definitions in my head the more I encounter them in the actual text.

If you are already doing an hour online communicatively and are planning on Bible translation you probably already know about the pictures in Living Koine Greek 1 and all of the oral drill material in Living Koine Greek 2a and 2b.

Indeed I have! They are at the very top of my 'resources to buy list', along with your recordings of the gospel/epistles of John. I am a newlywed though (ie. stone broke) it will be another month or so before I can afford them...but you'll be getting a purchase from me in the near future, most certainly.

And since you are planning on a lifelong active use of the biblical languages, by all means plan on 1-2 years in Israel, sooner rather than later. There is nothing like becoming fluent in Hebrew.

That's another question I have been meaning to ask - is modern Hebrew sufficiently similar to Biblical Hebrew to make learning it a profitable exercise? If so, then that is definitely what I will do. There is a Hebrew society in Perth (Australia) where I live that does weekly Hebrew classes but I wasn't sure how directly useful they would be.

[RandallButh]

That's another question I have been meaning to ask - is modern Hebrew sufficiently similar to Biblical Hebrew to make learning it a profitable exercise? If so, then that is definitely what I will do.

This is easy to answer but sometimes difficult to get the tone right.

Is modern Hebrew useful? Yes, absolutely.
How usefiul? To me it is a pedagogical crime within Christian academia that the question even arises. (It doesn't arise in Jewish higher education.) Christian schools should have required Hebrew fluency generations ago, and seminary professors of Hebrew should all have been required to be fluent in one or more dialect of Hebrew. To what may this be compared? To Shakespearian studies being done without requiring oral fluency in English. And then well-meaning students raising questions 'does speaking modern English help with Shakespeare?' The fault, of course, is not the student's, but the academic status quo.

So was that clear enough?

blessings

rb

[Nathan Binns]

That being said I'm a fluent native English speaker and I can't understand a word of Shakespeare, lol...but I love reading the early puritans from about the same time (eg. William Perkins) so I will change your analogy for my own purposes to "will learning modern English help me to read the puritans" and now all of a sudden I'm extremely excited about learning modern Hebrew!

[Paul-Nitz]

Nathan, Blessings on your study. The method I described above is what I use for learning more Greek, but also what I use for studying Greek. I'm doing that just now as I start a daily study of Ep. of James with some friends. But I'm adding something to it. I'm trying out an extra exercise of trying to sketch/illustrate the text as I read it.
Here is an example.

What Randall says about Living Koine book 1 is spot on. Paint primer for the brain to receive more learning in the right way. Great metaphor! Get the MP4 version of it now. Skip a couple meals.

You also could try out some of these lesson review videos I recently did for my students.