Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 51.3

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Philip Arend
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Joined: October 14th, 2018, 1:15 am

Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 51.3

Post by Philip Arend »

I am working through a passage in Justin Martyr and am wondering especially about the force of the last phrase: τοῦτ' ἔστιν αὐτὸς ὢν ὁ Χριστός.

I'm trying to understand if the force of ὢν is that "He is the Messiah himself" or himself "as''/"being" the messiah (set up the new covenant). Or any other considerations.

The full sentence is below along with my idea of the meaning underneath.

ὅτι ἡ πάλαι κηρυσσομένη ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ καινὴ διαθήκη διαταχθήσεσθαι ἤδη τότε παρῆν, τοῦτ' ἔστιν αὐτὸς ὢν ὁ Χριστός, οὕτως:

“the New Covenant, which God long ago proclaimed would be set up, was already then present, that is in himself as the Messiah in this manner:

The context is that Justin is trying to convince Trypho that Jesus is the Messiah and this is one more point showing a fulfillment of prophecy. The passage immediately following οὕτως introduces a scripture quotation "The prophets and law were until John the Baptist,and from that time the kingdom of heaven....etc. (conflating Luke 16:16 and Matthew 11:12-14.
Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 51.3

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

As you may suspect I have an idea on this, but could you post the entire paragraph? Hearing the context described and seeing the context are quite different, and it would help me at least to see the whole thing.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
S Walch
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Re: Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 51.3

Post by S Walch »

Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho, 51:

Καὶ, παυσαμένου μου, εἶπεν ὁ Τρύφων· Ἀμφίβολοι μὲν πάντες οἱ λόγοι τῆς προφητείας ἣν φῂς σὺ, ὦ ἄνθρωπε, καὶ οὐδὲν τμητικὸν εἰς ἀπόδειξιν, οὗπερ βούλει ἀποδεῖξαι, ἔχοντες. —— Κἀγὼ ἀπεκρινάμην· Εἰ μὲν μὴ ἐπαύσαντο καὶ οὐκέτι ἐγένοντο οἱ προφῆται ἐν τῷ γένει ὑμῶν, ὦ Τρύφων, μετὰ τοῦτον τὸν Ἰωάννην, δῆλον ὅτι ἃ λέγω εἰς Ἰησοῦν τὸν Χριστὸν ἴσως ἀμφίβολα ἐνοεῖτε εἶναι τὰ λεγόμενα. Εἰ δὲ Ἰωάννης μὲν προελήλυθε βοῶν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις μετανοεῖν, καὶ Χριστὸς, ἔτι αὐτοῦ καθεζομένου ἐπὶ τοῦ Ἰορδάνου ποταμοῦ, ἐπελθὼν ἔπαυσέ τε αὐτὸν τοῦ προφητεύειν καὶ βαπτίζειν, καὶ εὐηγγελίζετο καὶ αὐτὸς λέγων ὅτι ἐγγύς ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν, καὶ ὅτι δεῖ αὐτὸν πολλὰ παθεῖν ἀπὸ τῶν γραμματέων καὶ Φαρισαίων καὶ σταυρωθῆναι καὶ τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ ἀναστῆναι, καὶ πάλιν παραγενήσεσθαι ἐν Ἱερουσαλὴμ, καὶ τότε τοῖς μαθηταῖς αὐτοῦ συμπιεῖν πάλιν καὶ συμφαγεῖν, καὶ ἐν τῷ μεταξὺ τῆς παρουσίας αὐτοῦ χρόνῳ, ὡς προέφην, γενήσεσθαι ἱερεῖς καὶ ψευδοπροφήτας ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ προεμήνυσε, καὶ οὕτω φαίνεται ὄντα, — πῶς ἔτι ἀμφιβάλλειν ἐστίν, ἔργῳ πεισθῆναι ὑμῶν ἐχόντων; Εἰρήκει δὲ περὶ τοῦ μηκέτι γενήσεσθαι ἐν τῷ γένει ὑμῶν προφήτην, καὶ περὶ τοῦ ἐπιγνῶναι ὅτι ἡ πάλαι κηρυσσομένη ὑπὸ τοῦ Θεοῦ καινὴ διαθήκη διαταχθήσεσθαι ἤδη τότε παρῆν, τουτέστιν αὐτὸς ὢν ὁ Χριστὸς, οὕτως· Ὁ νόμος καὶ οἱ προφῆται μέχρι Ἰωάννου τοῦ βαπτιστοῦ· ἐξότου ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν βιάζεται, καὶ βιασταὶ ἁρπάζουσιν αὐτήν. Καὶ εἰ θέλετε δέξασθαι, αὐτός ἐστιν Ἠλίας ὁ μέλλων ἔρχεσθαι. Ὁ ἔχων ὦτα ἀκούειν, ἀκουέτω.
Ante-Nicene Fathers Translation wrote:And when I ceased, Trypho said, “All the words of the prophecy you repeat, sir, are ambiguous, and have no force in proving what you wish to prove.” Then I answered, “If the prophets had not ceased, so that there were no more in your nation, Trypho, after this John, it is evident that what I say in reference to Jesus Christ might be regarded perhaps as ambiguous. But if John came first calling on men to repent, and Christ, while [John] still sat by the river Jordan, having come, put an end to his prophesying and baptizing, and preached also Himself, saying that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and that He must suffer many things from the Scribes and Pharisees, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again, and would appear again in Jerusalem, and would again eat and drink with His disciples; and foretold that in the interval between His [first and second] advent, as I previously said, priests and false prophets would arise in His name, which things do actually appear; then how can they be ambiguous, when you may be persuaded by the facts? Moreover, He referred to the fact that there would be no longer in your nation any prophet, and to the fact that men recognised how that the New Testament, which God formerly announced [His intention of] promulgating, was then present, i.e., Christ Himself; and in the following terms: ‘The law and the prophets were until John the Baptist; from that time the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. And if you can receive it, he is Elijah, who was to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.’
Stirling Bartholomew
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Re: Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 51.3

Post by Stirling Bartholomew »

RE: αὐτὸς ὢν

The string αὐτὸς ὢν is used more than once by Athanasius. During the centuries of christological controversies this kind of language appears frequently. Reading this back into Justin Martyr is a dubious procedure.
Athanasius Orationes tres contra Arianos 
Volume 26, page 444, line 30

Ἄνθρωπος γὰρ οὐ κατ' ἰδίαν ἐξουσίαν, ἀλλ' ἀνάγκῃ
 φύσεως καὶ μὴ θέλων ἀποθνήσκει· ὁ δὲ Κύριος, 
ἀθάνατος αὐτὸς ὢν, σάρκα δὲ θνητὴν ἔχων, ἐπ' ἐξουσίας
 εἶχεν, ὡς Θεὸς, ἀπὸ τοῦ σώματος χωρισθῆναι, 
καὶ τοῦτο πάλιν ἀναλαβεῖν, ὅτε βούλεται. 
C. Stirling Bartholomew
Philip Arend
Posts: 61
Joined: October 14th, 2018, 1:15 am

Re: Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho 51.3

Post by Philip Arend »

Thanks Stirling for the snippet from Athanasius, with the relevant segment ὁ δὲ Κύριος, ἀθάνατος αὐτὸς ὢν, σάρκα δὲ θνητὴν ἔχων...etc. This seems at first glance to say "But the Lord, himself being Immortal, yet a mortal body possessing...etc. seems to be a simple enough form with possible similarities to Justin's sentence. Whets the appetite for more research...
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