Hello:
When do you know to transliterate kappa as "k" or "c"?
What are some examples of Greek words that have been transliterated both ways?
Thanks,
Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
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Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
Are you asking about words that enter the English vocabulary from Greek? Or some particular form of transliteration? I need some context here.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
I am asking about Greek words that enter English.
For example, koine.
For example, koine.
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Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
General principal:
Latin uses "c" to transliterate κ (Kappa). If a Greek word came to English through Latin, you will find a "c". If a word is being transliterated from Greek directly it will have a "k". It usually has a "k" these days.
Example:
The Greek philosopher Σωκράτης is traditionally referred to as "Socrates" (the Latin form of his name - itself a transliteration of the Greek), but sometimes as "Sokrates" (a direct transliteration from Greek to English).
Comments:
There is a feeling that the Greek / Hellenistic heritage does not need to be mediated to us through the Latin / Roman. The Mythology is ancient Greece is alluded to in Greek literature, but not written out in detail. One possible explanation of that was that it was part of the public consciousness. During the Hellenistic period, there was need for a fuller explanation and story telling of the myths and they were written down in full, and some of them include etiologies. As the Romans adopted the Greek gods and some of their practices, there was a degree of syncretism. The use of transliteration of κ (Kappa) as "k" may indicate an attempt to view ancient Greece (both lannguage and culture) in and of itself, rather than as it has been handed down to us through the classical tradition (that in itself being interpreted in a number of ways).
Latin uses "c" to transliterate κ (Kappa). If a Greek word came to English through Latin, you will find a "c". If a word is being transliterated from Greek directly it will have a "k". It usually has a "k" these days.
Example:
The Greek philosopher Σωκράτης is traditionally referred to as "Socrates" (the Latin form of his name - itself a transliteration of the Greek), but sometimes as "Sokrates" (a direct transliteration from Greek to English).
Comments:
There is a feeling that the Greek / Hellenistic heritage does not need to be mediated to us through the Latin / Roman. The Mythology is ancient Greece is alluded to in Greek literature, but not written out in detail. One possible explanation of that was that it was part of the public consciousness. During the Hellenistic period, there was need for a fuller explanation and story telling of the myths and they were written down in full, and some of them include etiologies. As the Romans adopted the Greek gods and some of their practices, there was a degree of syncretism. The use of transliteration of κ (Kappa) as "k" may indicate an attempt to view ancient Greece (both lannguage and culture) in and of itself, rather than as it has been handed down to us through the classical tradition (that in itself being interpreted in a number of ways).
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
If it had been transliterated into Latin first, it might have ended up in English as "Cena", but it wasn't and didn't.Jonathan Michaels wrote:koine
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
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Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
Of course "cena" exists as a perfectly good Latin word meaning "dinner." And no -- οι was regularly transliterated by Latin speakers with oe. The tradition of following the way the Romans did transliteration into Greek was common up through the first half of the 20th century, and some classicists still do it. Speaking of cena:
A classics prof went to a local diner, and was handed a sheet listing the daily specials. The waiter approached him and said, "What would you like?" The prof replied:
cena
cenae
cenae
cenam
cena
cenae
cenarum
cenis
cenas
cenis
"What are you doing?" queried the waiter. "Declining the dinner," quipped the prof.
A classics prof went to a local diner, and was handed a sheet listing the daily specials. The waiter approached him and said, "What would you like?" The prof replied:
cena
cenae
cenae
cenam
cena
cenae
cenarum
cenis
cenas
cenis
"What are you doing?" queried the waiter. "Declining the dinner," quipped the prof.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
I find (somewhat) more interesting the transformation of vowels and diphthongs from Greek κοιμητήριον to French cimetière to English "cemetery."Barry Hofstetter wrote:Of course "cena" exists as a perfectly good Latin word meaning "dinner." And no -- οι was regularly transliterated by Latin speakers with oe. The tradition of following the way the Romans did transliteration into Greek was common up through the first half of the 20th century, and some classicists still do it.
Down, Barry! Down! Down!Speaking of cena:
A classics prof went to a local diner, and was handed a sheet listing the daily specials. The waiter approached him and said, "What would you like?" The prof replied:
cena
cenae
cenae
cenam
cena
cenae
cenarum
cenis
cenas
cenis
"What are you doing?" queried the waiter. "Declining the dinner," quipped the prof.
οὔτοι ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς πάντα θεοὶ θνητοῖς ὑπέδειξαν,
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
ἀλλὰ χρόνῳ ζητέοντες ἐφευρίσκουσιν ἄμεινον. (Xenophanes, Fragment 16)
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
Did I mention that the professor's name was "Carl?"
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
-
- Posts: 3323
- Joined: February 26th, 2013, 7:12 am
Re: Kappa translitereated as "k" and "c"
It was only in the early 20th century that the spelling of oe (or œ) in words of Latin origin - eg. œcomics or cœmetery - was finally standardised to the simple e (economics, cemetery). The sound change happened earlier with the medieval pronunciation of Latin making no difference between them.
Γελᾷ δ' ὁ μωρός, κἄν τι μὴ γέλοιον ᾖ
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)
(Menander, Γνῶμαι μονόστιχοι 108)