λαμβάνω and τυγχάνω verbs

[Matthew Longhorn]

I am still having a beast of a time trying to learn the different meanings of these verbs in their various compound forms. Has anyone got any suggestions on this other than the very obvious “just try harder”. There seems to be significant overlap but not complete and that makes it very hard to remember which one means what

[Stirling Bartholomew]

Louw & Nida show overlap only in a small number of the λαμβάνω semantic domains.

τυγχάνω

71.10 τυχόν: (the neuter participle of τυγχάνω ‘to happen,’ not occurring in the NT) pertaining to the possible occurrence of an event or state — ‘perhaps, possibly.’ πρὸς ὑμᾶς δὲ τυχὸν παραμενῶ ἢ καὶ παραχειμάσω ‘I may perhaps spend some time with you, possibly even the whole winter’ 1Cor 16:6.

90.61 τυγχάνω; ἐπιτυγχάνωb: to experience some happening (generally neutral in connotation) — ‘to experience, to have happen to.’

λαμβάνω

90.63 λαμβάνωh; ἀπολαμβάνωe; ἐπιλαμβάνομαιf; μεταλαμβάνωb: to experience some event or state, often with the implication of something negatively valued — ‘to undergo, to experience.’16

90.85 λαμβάνωi: to cause to experience, normally implying something grievous — ‘to make experience.’ καὶ οἱ ὑπηρέται ῥαπίσμασιν αὐτὸν ἔλαβον ‘and the guards slapped him’ (literally ‘… made him experience slapping’) Mk 14:65. It is, of course, possible to understand λαμβάνω in Mk 14:65 in a more or less literal sense (see 18.1) and thus to translate this expression as ‘the guards took him and slapped him.’

So if you focus on these domains you can reduce the project to manageable proportions. Look at every instance of τυγχάνω in NT & LXX. Then use BDAG to locate where λαμβάνω has a similar meaning and study those texts along with the τυγχάνω texts. It isn't an impossible task. But I will admit that τυγχάνω has been hard to nail down in Attic texts.

[Matthew Longhorn]

Thanks Stirling, I don’t think I was clear. I am struggling within those two sets apart from each other. So, learning the meanings of all the τυγχανω verbs is hard for me as they cross meaning often
As a separate set, the λαμβανω verbs are hard for me to separate out

[Stirling Bartholomew]

I forgot that you are reading Josephus. If you have Josephus in a bible app you should be able to study his usage with koine lexicons and LSJ. A little more work but not impossible. Read lots of passages. I learned this from observing linguists at work. Don't be put off by having to look at 50 or more examples. You benefit greatly from exposure to massive numbers of contextual examples.

[Matthew Longhorn]

That is definitely going to have to happen. It isn’t really Josephus that is making me ask. Every weekend I pick a book of the bible I have read and go back through the vocab cards for that book.
The main reason for doing it that way is that I want to remember the semantic range for the words and not just what fits in their occurrences in a particular book. These word groups have always frustrated me

Re Josephus, I am finding the new Brill lexicon that begs to be called BDAG but isn’t to be really helpful. It is going to be hard to work out which meanings are still current in Koine with that and LSJ though. Still - a great challenge which is stretching me and making me learn and hopefully grow in my understanding of the language!

[Matthew Longhorn]

That is definitely going to have to happen. It isn’t really Josephus that is making me ask. Every weekend I pick a book of the bible I have read and go back through the vocab cards for that book.
The main reason for doing it that way is that I want to remember the semantic range for the words and not just what fits in their occurrences in a particular book. These word groups have always frustrated me

Re Josephus, I am finding the new Brill lexicon that begs to be called BDAG but isn’t to be really helpful. It is going to be hard to work out which meanings are still current in Koine with that and LSJ though. Still - a great challenge which is stretching me and making me learn and hopefully grow in my understanding of the language!

But yes, you are correct. It is probably going to have to be contextual examples that I need

[Stirling Bartholomew]

I want to remember the semantic range for the words ...

I don't consciously attempt to visualize the contents of the semantic domain network. I approach each text contextually and only concern myself with what the text is saying. Paragraphs, sentences, clauses and phrases are elements that have meaning. Words are seen as elements that attain their meaning from their location in this semiotic system. How the word is used in some other semiotic system is only important when it semantically overlaps.

[Matthew Longhorn]

I agree, however I also disagree to some extent. Recognising that a word can sometimes be used a certain way allows you to examine the passage and see if it fits. You need a basic level of understanding of how an author may have used and heard a word used to assess whether it fits in the context. Other wise you will be coming up with very novel interpretations.
Texts don’t exist in isolation from their wider culture is what I guess I am getting at

[Matthew Longhorn]

Perhaps a better way to explain why I use this approach to vocab - it means when I come across the word in a different book then I don’t have to go off and learn another meaning for it. Hopefully by the time I come across it again the possible meaning is available in my mind and I can then contextually modify as needed

[Stirling Bartholomew]

My only concern is limiting the scope of the task to something which is feasible for a mere mortal. Things can get out of control if you try to take on all the domains of all the compounds of τυγχανω for example in Josephus with something over 300 samples:

ἀποτυγχάνει (1) παρατυγχάνειν (11) συντυγχάνουσιν (2)
ἀποτυγχάνειν (1) παρατυγχάνεις (1) συντυγχάνων (2)
ἐνετύγχανεν (2) παρατυγχάνῃ (1) τυγχάνει (19)
ἐνετύγχανον (3) παρατυγχάνοντες (1) τυγχάνειν (51)
ἐντυγχάνει (5) παρατυγχάνοντος (1) τυγχάνεις (4)
ἐντυγχάνειν (3) παρατυγχανόντων (3) τυγχανέτω (1)
ἐντυγχάνοντα (1) παρατυγχάνουσα (1) τυγχάνῃ (1)
ἐντυγχάνοντας (6) παρατυγχάνουσι (2) τυγχάνοι (5)
ἐντυγχάνοντες (6) παρατυγχάνουσιν (1) τυγχάνοιεν (2)
ἐντυγχάνοντος (1) παρατυγχάνω (1) τυγχάνον (3)
ἐντυγχανόντων (1) παρατυγχάνων (1) τυγχάνοντα (7)
ἐντυγχάνουσι (2) παρετύγχανον (1) τυγχάνοντας (7)
ἐντυγχάνουσιν (5) περιετύγχανεν (1) τυγχάνοντες (5)
ἐντυγχάνων (2) περιετύγχανον (1) τυγχάνοντι (4)
ἐπετύγχανεν (3) περιτυγχάνοντες (1) τυγχάνοντος (9)
ἐπετύγχανον (2) περιτυγχάνουσιν (1) τυγχανόντων (6)
ἐπιτυγχάνει (5) προεντυγχάνοντας (1) τυγχάνουσα (2)
ἐπιτυγχάνειν (1) προσεπιτυγχάνει (1) τυγχάνουσαν (1)
ἐπιτυγχανομένων (1) προστυγχάνοντας (1) τυγχανούσης (3)
ἐπιτυγχάνοντες (2) προστυγχανόντων (1) τυγχάνουσι (3)
ἐπιτυγχάνουσι (1) προστυγχάνων (1) τυγχάνουσιν (8)
ἐπιτυγχάνουσιν (1) συνετύγχανεν (3) τυγχάνω (1)
ἐτύγχανε (8) συντυγχάνει (4) τυγχάνων (16)
ἐτύγχανεν (22) συντυγχάνειν (3) τυγχάνωσι (3)
ἐτύγχανον (8) συντυγχάνον (1)