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Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: December 23rd, 2019, 3:24 pm
by Brent Niedergall
Thanks Jason and Barry! The idea of an agenda is always a possibility, especially when someone doesn't want to accept the text at face value.

Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: December 23rd, 2019, 5:38 pm
by Bruce McKinnon
Barry Hofstetter wrote: December 23rd, 2019, 2:00 pm
Brent Niedergall wrote: December 23rd, 2019, 8:53 am I came across a recent post on Reddit from Ted, who hasn’t given up on his quest for a satisfying answer. Here is my response.
https://niedergall.com/an-obscure-greek ... an-answer/
Anything anyone would add or take away?
I agree with Jason, well answered, as it was in this forum above in 2012. Often if an individual asks the same question over and over, when it has been correctly and fairly answered, there is an agenda involved.
I agree, especially in the light of Carl Conrad's 2012 response.

Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: December 23rd, 2019, 7:05 pm
by Jason Hare
How else would the questioner expect it to be understood? What possible agenda could be had regarding this verse? Sometimes I feel so naïve.

Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: December 23rd, 2019, 10:32 pm
by timothy_p_mcmahon

Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: December 24th, 2019, 2:28 am
by Jason Hare
timothy_p_mcmahon wrote: December 23rd, 2019, 10:32 pm No doubt here’s the Agenda.

https://biblestudyforlife.com/PDF/compa ... df#page496
Oh, I see. It's an attempt to twist the Greek language in order to smooth over an apparent contradiction within the Gospels. Gotcha.

Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: November 26th, 2023, 4:03 pm
by samdahl
Four people were crucified with Jesus. Matthew reported two “thieves,” λῃσταί, were crucified on either side of Jesus who both reviled Him (Matthew 27.44; Mark 15.27, 32). Luke wrote there were two “criminals,” κακοῦργοι, with Him (Luke 23.39). One reviled Him, but the other rebuked him for this (Luke 23.40). The “criminals” were crucified before the solders gambled for His clothing (Luke 23.33-34). Matthew wrote the thieves were crucified after the soldiers gambled for His clothes (Matthew 27.35-38). John 19.32-33 makes no sense if one person was on each side of Jesus. The soldiers went and broke the legs of the first two, then came to Jesus and saw He was already dead. John 19.18 states two were on each side of Jesus (καὶ μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ ἄλλους δύο ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν μέσον δὲ τὸν Ἰησοῦν). Four were crucified with Jesus, not two.

Re: The expression: "ἐντεῦθεν καὶ ἐντεῦθεν"

Posted: November 28th, 2023, 3:43 am
by Jason Hare
samdahl wrote: November 26th, 2023, 4:03 pm Four people were crucified with Jesus.... Four were crucified with Jesus, not two.
Since neither this text (John 19.18) nor any early text says ἐσταύρωσαν... μετ᾿ αὐτοῦ ἄλλους τέσσαρας, δύο ἐντεῦθεν καὶ δύο ἐντεῦθεν (“they crucified... four others with him, two here and two there”), I don’t think your speculation has met the standards of proof required to establish it. Why do you think it is that there is not a single gospel or any other text in the history of early Christendom that says that there were four crucified with him? Is there a conspiracy to obscure how many people were crucified alongside Jesus? Every single gospel says two (Matt 27.38; Mark 15.27; Luke 23.32; John 19.18). Not a single one says four. That serves as a major problem for you.

Please let us know who you are so that we can change your username to conform to our policy on usernames, or add your name to your signature. Given that we strive to be an academic forum, we do not allow anonymous posting. It’s great that you are presenting Greek in your post. We really appreciate that our users address the Greek text. Could you also create an introductory thread here to tell us a little about your background with Greek? My introduction thread (a bit dated now) is here. Welcome to the forum!