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Acts 17:21b: Comparative not translated as comparative?
Posted: April 26th, 2012, 1:30 am
by klitwak
EIS OUDEN (ETERON HUKAIROUN H LEGEIN H AKOUEIN TI KAINOTERON
Technically, KAINOTERON is a comparative, and this clause would be "they were spending time for no other thing [than' to say or to hear something newer." Yet, the major English translations I looked at, as well as the Handbook on Acts by Parsons and Culy render it simply "new." The comparative sense makes perfect sense: All the Athenians and strangers staying [there] were spending time for no other purpose than to say or to hear something newer (than whatever they have just said or heard). So I am wondering why the comparative force of the word is not brought out by translators, or alternatively, why it should not be rendered as a comparative. Thanks.
Re: Acts 17:21b: Comparative not translated as comparative?
Posted: April 26th, 2012, 8:54 am
by cwconrad
There's nothing exceptionable in the practice of the translators. If there's a difficulty, I think it may lie in an expectation that Greek usage should conform to English. I've found it useful to think of the sense of the Greek comparative adjective and adverb as "relatively (x)", or "more (x) than not." And, of course, the "relatively" doesn't really need to be expressed to make the meaning clear.
It may be worth noting also that the usage of adjectival degrees has a tendency to weaken when those degrees are commonly used: "biggest and best" in English may very well be equivalent to "good" or "not bad at all."
BDF§244. Meaning of the comparative. ... (2) Also ἆσσον, μᾶλλον, ἄμεινον et al.; furthermore νεώτερος, -ον (καινότερον) of the classical language can sometimes be rendered by the positive, although we too in a similar way say ‘come closer’, ‘it is better to …’ and the like. Thus in the NT, e.g. A 17:21 λέγειν τι ἢ ἀκούειν τι καινότερον (Atticism, s. Norden 333ff.); cf. K.–G. II 306f.
Smyth§1067. ... The comparative is sometimes used merely as an intensive and does not differ essentially from the positive: τούτων καταδεέστερος at a disadvantage with (inferior to) these men D. 27.2.
Re: Acts 17:21b: Comparative not translated as comparative?
Posted: May 6th, 2012, 9:48 pm
by klitwak
Thanks Carl. I guess I will to do more research on this issue in advanced grammars because "sometimes may be translated as the positive" is not a very precise rule of thumb--it's not enough to tell me in any given case whether a comparative should be understood as a positive.
Re: Acts 17:21b: Comparative not translated as comparative?
Posted: May 7th, 2012, 3:36 am
by David Lim
klitwak wrote:Thanks Carl. I guess I will to do more research on this issue in advanced grammars because "sometimes may be translated as the positive" is not a very precise rule of thumb--it's not enough to tell me in any given case whether a comparative should be understood as a positive.
If I understand Carl correctly, he is saying that the comparative does retain its comparative force, but it is not quite the same as in English. So your example could be understood as "to hear something relatively new", which is usually rendered without "relatively" in English because it is already implied. To use "newer" would not be logically wrong but would sound (relatively) odd.