The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Greek texts such as the New Testament, The Greek Old Testament (Septuagint/LXX), Patristic Greek texts, Papyri, and other Greek writings of the New Testament era. Discussion must focus on the Greek text, not on modern language translations, theological controversies, or textual criticism.
Forum rules
Please quote the Greek text you are discussing directly in your post if it is reasonably short - do not ask people to look it up. This is not a beginner's forum, competence in Greek is assumed.
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 2159
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

jgibson000 wrote: May 24th, 2021, 5:44 pm Also, I don't so much consider BAGD to be out of date when it comes to its entry on πειράζω as I consider it inaccurate. I spoke with Danker about this, but unfortunately it was after BDAG was published and he had no opportunity to take my work on the verb and its cognates into account. He did, however, take into consideration my work on the meaning of αναστενάζω.

Jeffrey
To me, it appears that the passages cited to support the meaning "tempt to sin" appear quite straightfoward and rather definitive. I'll go with BDAG.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
jgibson000
Posts: 45
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 1:56 pm

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by jgibson000 »

Apologies for sounding snarky in my last message to you. I certainly appreciate all you do for B-Greek.

Jeffrey
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659

jgibson000@comcast.net
jgibson000
Posts: 45
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 1:56 pm

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by jgibson000 »

My survey of the use and meaning of πειράζω and cognates may be found at

https://www.academia.edu/s/bbab743967/t ... -the-terms

and

https://www.academia.edu/s/fd435ca6a4/t ... e-evidence

Comments and criticisms of my analysis and arguments welcome.
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659

jgibson000@comcast.net
Eeli Kaikkonen
Posts: 611
Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 7:49 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

My survey of the use and meaning of πειράζω and cognates may be found at
Not available... "Sorry, this Discussion has ended."
jgibson000
Posts: 45
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 1:56 pm

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by jgibson000 »

Eeli,

It looks like you have to be subscribed to Academic.edu to read my articles.

In any case, are you one of this site's moderators?

Jeffrey
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659

jgibson000@comcast.net
dougknighton
Posts: 31
Joined: June 3rd, 2011, 4:56 pm
Location: Westerville, OH
Contact:

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by dougknighton »

Barry Hofstetter wrote: May 24th, 2021, 3:59 pm On πειράζω, of course it can mean "tempt" as in "tempt to sin":

④ to entice to improper behavior, tempt Gal 6:1; Js 1:13a (s. ἀπό 5eβ) and b, 14 (Aeschin. 1, 190 the gods do not lead people to sin). Above all the devil works in this way; hence he is directly called ὁ πειράζων the tempter Mt 4:3; 1 Th 3:5b.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 793). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Having been convinced by Gibson’s research concerning the nature of πειρᾶζω/πειρασμός, I entered a discussion with a Greek scholar and friend who lived near me a couple of years ago. He responded by asking, “What about BDAG and LSJ?” at which point he quoted the relevant sections (even more than you did). Since Gibson did not interact directly with the lexicons, I decided to look at all of the relevant GNT texts to see if they conveyed the idea of entice(ment) to sin. My expectation of lexicons was that the citations they make indicate texts that convey the idea they’re setting forth. This seems not to be the case. So I wrote a long response to my friend in which I addressed each citation. It is about 2800 words long. So to avoid jamming up the B-Greek servers, I posted this response on Academia (https://www.academia.edu/s/8a1f238b74). I hope it adds to this discussion.

Doug Knighton
Eeli Kaikkonen
Posts: 611
Joined: June 2nd, 2011, 7:49 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by Eeli Kaikkonen »

jgibson000 wrote: May 25th, 2021, 2:11 pm Eeli,

It looks like you have to be subscribed to Academic.edu to read my articles.

In any case, are you one of this site's moderators?

Jeffrey
I'm subscribed but not paid.

No, I'm not a moderator.
jgibson000
Posts: 45
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 1:56 pm

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by jgibson000 »

Then I have no idea why you declared that the discussion of the meaning of πειρᾶζω has ended.

Jeffrey
Last edited by jgibson000 on May 25th, 2021, 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jeffrey B. Gibson
6037 N. Fairfield Ave
Chicago, Il. 60659

jgibson000@comcast.net
Barry Hofstetter
Posts: 2159
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 1:48 pm

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

jgibson000 wrote: May 25th, 2021, 8:53 am Apologies for sounding snarky in my last message to you. I certainly appreciate all you do for B-Greek.

Jeffrey
I didn't so much view it as "snarky" as "vigorous..." :)
N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., Th.M.
Ph.D. Student U of FL
Instructor of Latin
Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
Ken M. Penner
Posts: 880
Joined: May 12th, 2011, 7:50 am
Location: Antigonish, NS, Canada
Contact:

Re: The meaning of Hebrews 4:15b

Post by Ken M. Penner »

jgibson000 wrote: May 25th, 2021, 4:54 pm Then I have no idea why you declared that the discussion of the meaning of πειρᾶζω has ended.
Jeffrey
Jeffrey, I think Eeli was not declaring that the discussion the meaning of πειρᾶζω has ended, but was reporting the error message received when trying to follow the link you provided ( https://www.academia.edu/s/fd435ca6a4/t ... e-evidence ).
Ken M. Penner
Professor and Chair of Religious Studies, St. Francis Xavier University
Co-Editor, Digital Biblical Studies
General Editor, Lexham English Septuagint
Co-Editor, Online Critical Pseudepigrapha pseudepigrapha.org
Post Reply

Return to “Greek Texts”