B-Greek: The Biblical Greek Forum

Hebrews 1
13 προς τινα δε των αγγελων ειρηκεν ποτε καθου εκ δεξιων μου εως αν θω τους εχθρους σου υποποδιον των ποδων σου
14 ουχι παντες εισιν λειτουργικα πνευματα εις διακονιαν αποστελλομενα δια τους μελλοντας κληρονομειν σωτηριαν

How would you understand δια τους μελλοντας here? It seems as if one takes δια in one sense, then the angels are currently ministering TO THE ones who will inherit salvation (believers, the proverbial, we all have our own guardian angel watching over each of us). But in another sense, δια can imply that the angels are ministering for the sake of those who will inherit salvation, which does not have to imply that the angels are ministering TO those who are to inherit salvation. Is there a "natural" sense here that would give us an idea of when and to whom these angels are ministering?

I don't see anything here that suggests an answer for when the angels are sent out. It seems to me the natural answer would be when they are needed. This could be all the time, but there nothing in the text that demands it.
In terms of agency, the angels follow God's agenda in helping His people. This could either be direct ministry or indirect. Again, I don't see much that would suggest anything more specific than what you have seen. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself will have something more helpful to say.

Wes Wood wrote:I don't see anything here that suggests an answer for when the angels are sent out. It seems to me the natural answer would be when they are needed. This could be all the time, but there nothing in the text that demands it.
In terms of agency, the angels follow God's agenda in helping His people. This could either be direct ministry or indirect. Again, I don't see much that would suggest anything more specific than what you have seen. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself will have something more helpful to say.

Hi Wes, You've probably got a good point to make here, please explain your answer to us based on the Greek, not just so it sounds like your opinion. Perhaps you could talk about διά and how that preposition works with different various things.

Point taken. With the accusative this preposition usually indicates some form of cause or reason often translated with "because of" or "for the sake of". It also enables a meaning of "for" in passages like Mk. 2:27 (BDF for passage citation). In addition to this, it rarely occurs with a spacial meaning "through" appearing occasionally with group words like "crowd" or "multitude." In this context, the first meaning seems most likely. But this meaning does not explain how the angels minister or whether that ministry is directly or indirectly for those "who are about to inherit salvation."
Thanks for the constructive criticism.

Alan Patterson wrote:

Hebrews 1 wrote:14 ουχι παντες εισιν λειτουργικα πνευματα εις διακονιαν αποστελλομενα δια τους μελλοντας κληρονομειν σωτηριαν

I think that διά + accusative was the authour's second choice here. I suspect that they had initially wanted to use ὑπὲρ + genitive, but couldn't because with διακονεῖν, the ὑπὲρ + genitive had another meaning already (cf. Phlm 1:13), for which it could proabably have been misunderstood.

Stephen Hughes wrote:

Alan Patterson wrote:

Hebrews 1 wrote:14 ουχι παντες εισιν λειτουργικα πνευματα εις διακονιαν αποστελλομενα δια τους μελλοντας κληρονομειν σωτηριαν

I think that διά + accusative was the authour's second choice here. I suspect that they had initially wanted to use ὑπὲρ + genitive, but couldn't because with διακονεῖν, the ὑπὲρ + genitive had another meaning already (cf. Phlm 1:13), for which it could proabably have been misunderstood.

I basically agree with your statement, as I too think διά + accusative was the second choice. What makes you believe ὑπὲρ + genitive was the initial choice? I know you make the statement of the other meaning and chance of being misunderstood, but I am curious if there is any additional thought, I enjoy this train of thinking. Thank you.