B-Greek: The Biblical Greek Forum

3 ευχαριστω τω θεω μου επι παση τη μνεια υμων
4 παντοτε εν παση δεησει μου υπερ παντων υμων μετα χαρας την δεησιν ποιουμενος
5 επι τη κοινωνια υμων εις το ευαγγελιον απο της πρωτης ημερας αχρι του νυν

This passage has notoriously been a hard passage to translate. For example, should ευχαριστω be modified by επι παση τη μνεια υμων or επι τη κοινωνια υμων? If the latter, that would seem to put επι παση τη μνεια υμων 4 παντοτε εν παση δεησει μου υπερ παντων υμων μετα χαρας την δεησιν ποιουμενος separated by dashes. Should either παντοτε or μετα χαρας be construed with what precedes or follows them? (questions from Moises Silva's commentary on Philippians)

Maybe this is one of those trivia questions, but does Philippians mean 'horse lover,' and if so, what's the origin of this name?

Alan Patterson wrote:3 ευχαριστω τω θεω μου επι παση τη μνεια υμων
4 παντοτε εν παση δεησει μου υπερ παντων υμων μετα χαρας την δεησιν ποιουμενος
5 επι τη κοινωνια υμων εις το ευαγγελιον απο της πρωτης ημερας αχρι του νυν

This passage has notoriously been a hard passage to translate. For example, should ευχαριστω be modified by επι παση τη μνεια υμων or επι τη κοινωνια υμων? If the latter, that would seem to put επι παση τη μνεια υμων 4 παντοτε εν παση δεησει μου υπερ παντων υμων μετα χαρας την δεησιν ποιουμενος separated by dashes. Should either παντοτε or μετα χαρας be construed with what precedes or follows them? (questions from Moises Silva's commentary on Philippians)

Maybe this is one of those trivia questions, but does Philippians mean 'horse lover,' and if so, what's the origin of this name?

Let's tackle this query ὕστερον πρότερον: No: "Philippian" doesn't mean "horse lover"; it means "citizen of Philippi," i.e., "citizen of Philip's Town," Philip in this case being Philip II of Macedon. It's the name "Philip", Φιλ-ιππος, that means "horse-lover."

I'd see the major break here at the end of verse 3; verse 4 expands on the gratitude indicated in verse 3 and indicates whence that gratitude originates; verse 5 clarifies the source of the profound gratitude. In this instance, at least, I think that the verse division articulates the division of thought in the sentence as a whole. That's my opinion, at any rate.

With regard to translation, the initial task is not translation, but grasping the sense of the text in its own sequence. Once you've succeeded at that, there's no reason to convert it into English or some other target language unless you are presenting this text to somebody else. If you don't fully understand it, you can't translate it. If you do fully understand it, translation isn't really necessary, is it? At any rate, translation is a very different art from grasping the meaning of the text or even analyzing its strucure. You can't even analyze it's structure if you haven't understood the text.

Nevertheless, my own procedure would be to follow the sequence of thought in the original and try to represent that sequence of thought in English (or another target language). "I thank my God every time I think of you; There's not a time I pray but that I pray for you all with joy in your fellowship in the gospel from day one up to this moment."

Remember that you're translating thoughts, not words.

Alan Patterson wrote:[D]oes Philippians mean 'horse lover,' and if so, what's the origin of this name?

The gen. sing. masc. noun Philippi at, e.g., Matt. 16:13 KJV was rendered from a compound Greek word: φίλος (philos = friend of, fond of) + ἵππος (hippos = horse). The origin of ἵππος is uncertain. (Cp., e.g., Strong's G5376; Mounce, Expository Dictionary 5805; Moulton's Greek Lex.). And, in Matt. 16:13 et al., "Philippi" refers to Philip, the son of Herod the Great and Cleopatra.

Pat Ferguson wrote:The origin of ἵππος is uncertain.

I think that there is widespread agreement these days that ἵππος is a descendant of Proto-Indo-European *ekwos (or something like that), which is more closely reflected in Latin equus. The main puzzle remaining is accounting for the initial aspirate, which is not found in other Greek forms, e.g., the personal name Λεύκ-ιππος. Here's a paper on the issue: Initial “Jod” in Greek and the Etymology of Gk. ἵππος ‘horse’.

Stephen Carlson wrote:Here's a paper on the issue:....

Thanks. It's interesting info, but abstruse. Here's what another source relates:

Old English hors, from Proto-Germanic *hursa- ..., of unknown origin, connected by some with PIE root *kurs-, source of Latin currere "to run".
The usual Indo-European word is represented by Old English eoh, from PIE *ekwo- "horse" (see equine). In many other languages, as in English, this root has been lost in favor of synonyms, probably via superstitious taboo on uttering the name of an animal so important in Indo-European religion. (Douglas Harper, Online Etymology Dictionary 2013)

Pat Ferguson wrote: Here's what another source relates:

Old English hors, from Proto-Germanic *hursa- ..., of unknown origin, connected by some with PIE root *kurs-, source of Latin currere "to run".
The usual Indo-European word is represented by Old English eoh, from PIE *ekwo- "horse" (see equine). In many other languages, as in English, this root has been lost in favor of synonyms, probably via superstitious taboo on uttering the name of an animal so important in Indo-European religion. (Douglas Harper, Online Etymology Dictionary 2013)

That quote just says that the Germanic etymon of English horse is of obscure origin; it doesn't say anything about ἵππος. And if you click on the word equine from where you quoted it, it says that ἵππος comes from the PIE *ekwo-.