εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

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jgibson000
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εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by jgibson000 »

Must the meaning of εἰς in καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν be translated as "into"? Is there any evidence that it bears the meaning "to"?

Jeffrey
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by Jonathan Robie »

jgibson000 wrote: April 24th, 2021, 9:13 am Must the meaning of εἰς in καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν be translated as "into"? Is there any evidence that it bears the meaning "to"?
Hard to translate εἰς by itself. What potential meanings of the phrase εἰς πειρασμόν do you have in mind? What parallels have you found to back up a given meaning?
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

jgibson000 wrote: April 24th, 2021, 9:13 am Must the meaning of εἰς in καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν be translated as "into"? Is there any evidence that it bears the meaning "to"?

Jeffrey
See Jonathan's questions. However, as it stands, εἰς with verbs of motion (of which εἰσφέρω is clearly one) often renders what we mean by "into."
② to cause someone to enter into a certain event or condition, bring in, fig. ext. of 1: εἰ. τινὰ εἰς πειρασμόν bring or lead someone into temptation Mt 6:13; Lk 11:4; D 8:2; Pol 7:2. τὶ εἰς τὰς ἀκοάς τινος bring someth. to someone’s ears Ac 17:20 (cp. Soph., Aj. 149 εἰς ὦτα φέρει πάντων Ὀδυσσεύς); introduce ξένας διδαχάς strange teachings Hs 8, 6, 5 (cp. POxy 123, 13 συνείδησιν εἰσήνεγκαν=they sent a report; also X., Mem. 1, 1, 2 καινὰ δαιμόνια εἰσφέρειν [s. Just., A I, 5, 3; A II, 10, 5]).
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 295). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.
jgibson000
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by jgibson000 »

The reason I asked about the preposition has to do with what Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4 might mean if the referent of πειρασμόν is a place, specifically the one that the LXX calls πειρασμὸς.

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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by Jonathan Robie »

jgibson000 wrote: April 25th, 2021, 10:18 am The reason I asked about the preposition has to do with what Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4 might mean if the referent of πειρασμόν is a place, specifically the one that the LXX calls πειρασμὸς.
Regardless, the "to" vs. "into" distinction doesn't help here, in Exodus 17 they were clearly in the place, so they had gone into it somehow. καὶ παρενεβάλοσαν ἐν Ραφιδείν. You can use εἰς for that, c.f. Matthew 9:7 καὶ ἐγερθεὶς ἀπῆλθεν εἰς τὸν οἶκον αὐτοῦ.

I don't know if that foreign place name is declined or not or how, but modulo declension, I suspect it would be perfectly grammatical to say καὶ ἐγερθεὶς ἀπῆλθεν εἰς Ραφιδείν or to say καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς Ραφιδείν if they didn't want to go to that place to camp. That said, I would love confirmation or correction on that point from others.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by RandallButh »

If poeple are willing to consider backgrounds, they should factor in the rabbinic idiom לידי נסיון "to the hands of trial", attested in a prayer.

1. Personally, I think that the phrase in Mt and Lk refers to succumbing to the temption as well as encountering temptation, and that such a "both and" understanding was understood contextually from time immemorial.
2. Such a Hebrew idiom could support that contextual understanding.
3. Paul, with rabbininc training under Gamliel, might be expected to concur: 1 Cor 10:13: πειρασμὸς ὑμᾶς οὐκ εἴληφεν εἰ μὴ ἀνθρώπινος· πιστὸς δὲ ὁ θεός, ὃς οὐκ ἐάσει ὑμᾶς πειρασθῆναι ὑπὲρ ὃ δύνασθε ἀλλὰ ποιήσει σὺν τῷ πειρασμῷ καὶ τὴν ἔκβασιν τοῦ δύνασθαι ὑπενεγκεῖν.
Barry Hofstetter
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Jonathan Robie wrote: April 25th, 2021, 1:33 pm
jgibson000 wrote: April 25th, 2021, 10:18 am The reason I asked about the preposition has to do with what Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4 might mean if the referent of πειρασμόν is a place, specifically the one that the LXX calls πειρασμὸς.
Regardless, the "to" vs. "into" distinction doesn't help here, in Exodus 17 they were clearly in the place, so they had gone into it somehow. καὶ παρενεβάλοσαν ἐν Ραφιδείν. You can use εἰς for that, c.f. Matthew 9:7 καὶ ἐγερθεὶς ἀπῆλθεν εἰς τὸν οἶκον αὐτοῦ.

I don't know if that foreign place name is declined or not or how, but modulo declension, I suspect it would be perfectly grammatical to say καὶ ἐγερθεὶς ἀπῆλθεν εἰς Ραφιδείν or to say καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς Ραφιδείν if they didn't want to go to that place to camp. That said, I would love confirmation or correction on that point from others.
The Gottingen LXX has Ἦλθεν δὲ Ἀμαλὴκ καὶ ἐπολέμει Ἰσραὴλ ἐν Ῥαφιδίν for Ex 17:8. ἐπολέμει is not considered a verb of motion, so ἐν is appropriate Greek here. Also remember that we have translation literature in the LXX, so that ἐν Ῥαφιδίν renders בִּרְפִידִם, the prefix preposition often meaning what we mean by "in." Ῥαφιδίν is indeclinable.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
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Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by Jonathan Robie »

This morning, I realized that "to" seems to function the same way in English for verbs of motion and places.

"I went to the store" implies that I actually went into the store. "I went to the fence" does not imply that I went into it or crossed it. The difference involves the basic notions we have about how stores and fences work. "I went to the store, but it was closed" does not imply that I went into the store. Pragmatics play an important role here.

I suspect that's what we are seeing with Greek in this thread.
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Re: εἰς in Matt. 6:13//Lk. 11:4

Post by Jonathan Robie »

Barry Hofstetter wrote: April 25th, 2021, 9:25 am However, as it stands, εἰς with verbs of motion (of which εἰσφέρω is clearly one) often renders what we mean by "into."
② to cause someone to enter into a certain event or condition, bring in, fig. ext. of 1: εἰ. τινὰ εἰς πειρασμόν bring or lead someone into temptation Mt 6:13; Lk 11:4; D 8:2; Pol 7:2. τὶ εἰς τὰς ἀκοάς τινος bring someth. to someone’s ears Ac 17:20 (cp. Soph., Aj. 149 εἰς ὦτα φέρει πάντων Ὀδυσσεύς); introduce ξένας διδαχάς strange teachings Hs 8, 6, 5 (cp. POxy 123, 13 συνείδησιν εἰσήνεγκαν=they sent a report; also X., Mem. 1, 1, 2 καινὰ δαιμόνια εἰσφέρειν [s. Just., A I, 5, 3; A II, 10, 5]).
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 295). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
And of course ...
εἰσφέρω fut. εἰσοίσω LXX; aor. εἰσήνεγκα and εἰσήνεγκον (B-D-F §81, 2; W-S. §13, 13; Mlt-H. 263) pf. pass. ptc. εἰσενηνεγμένος 2 Macc 14:38; aor. εἰσηνέχθην LXX (Hom.+) gener. ‘bring in, carry in’.
to bring into an area, bring in τινά: μὴ εὑρόντες ποίας (sc. ὁδοῦ) εἰσενέγκωσιν αὐτόν (i.e., εἰς τ. οἶκον) since they found no way to bring him in Lk 5:19; cp. vs. 18. οὐδὲν εἰσηνέγκαμεν εἰς τ. κόσμον we have brought nothing into the world (Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 294f τὸν μηδὲν εἰς τ. κόσμον εἰσενηνοχότα; cp. Cicero, Tusc. 1, 38 [91]) 1 Ti 6:7; Pol 4:1. Pass. τὸ αἷμα εἰσφέρεται … εἰς τὰ ἅγια the blood is brought into the sanctuary Hb 13:11 (cp. Lev 4:5; 16:27 [pass.]). Also forcefully drag in (PAmh 77, 22 [139 A.D.]) Lk 12:11. On J 18:16 v.l. s. RBorger, TRu, ’87, 35f.
to cause someone to enter into a certain event or condition, bring in, fig. ext. of 1: εἰ. τινὰ εἰς πειρασμόν bring or lead someone into temptation Mt 6:13; Lk 11:4; D 8:2; Pol 7:2. τὶ εἰς τὰς ἀκοάς τινος bring someth. to someone’s ears Ac 17:20 (cp. Soph., Aj. 149 εἰς ὦτα φέρει πάντων Ὀδυσσεύς); introduce ξένας διδαχάς strange teachings Hs 8, 6, 5 (cp. POxy 123, 13 συνείδησιν εἰσήνεγκαν=they sent a report; also X., Mem. 1, 1, 2 καινὰ δαιμόνια εἰσφέρειν [s. Just., A I, 5, 3; A II, 10, 5]).—M-M. TW.


Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 295). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
ἐξίσταντο δὲ πάντες καὶ διηποροῦντο, ἄλλος πρὸς ἄλλον λέγοντες, τί θέλει τοῦτο εἶναι;
http://jonathanrobie.biblicalhumanities.org/
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